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Post by theatrelover97 on May 20, 2023 23:31:35 GMT
Considering the current climate a gender swaped Tell Me on a Sunday would be very interesting and very controversial.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 21, 2023 8:04:54 GMT
Considering the current climate a gender swaped Tell Me on a Sunday would be very interesting and very controversial. In no way would it be very controversial. There might be voices raised against the concept because it would be taking a role away from a female performer. But if people are going to celebrate a female Bobby in Company, they are going to have to live with a male protagonist in Tell Me. Much as I would be very interested to see how it would work as the story of a gay male finding his way as an immigrant in the US, the lyrics are going to have to be very, very carefully reworked so that it didn't feel tokenistic. The gay experience would have to be properly represented and tailored to the setting of the piece. And that means more than just swapping some pronouns. Would the production be set at the time of the original creation? So late 70s/early 80s. Or would it be a fully updated version? Or somewhere in between? Given what has happened in gay communities through the past 40 years, that needs careful work and, I would suggest, need someone who truly understands that history and the associated impacts it had. Anyway, all that is for another thread.
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Post by bobbievanhusen on May 21, 2023 8:44:26 GMT
It's hard to believe that Nicole (44) is the same age that Patti was when she opened in the original production, back in 1993.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 21, 2023 8:51:30 GMT
It's hard to believe that Nicole (44) is the same age that Patti was when she opened in the original production, back in 1993. Patti had 22 years of professional theatre experience as both actor and singer by that point. Nicole has a long performing history. But her stage acting experience is measured in weeks.
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Post by A.Ham on May 21, 2023 10:21:44 GMT
So having signed up for priority, does anyone know when booking opens? The confirmation email gives barely any information at all! Just bumping this in the hope someone may have heard something over the weekendβ¦ π€π»
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Post by bobbievanhusen on May 21, 2023 11:00:13 GMT
Patti had 22 years of professional theatre experience as both actor and singer by that point. Nicole has a long performing history. But her stage acting experience is measured in weeks. Thanks for that. I was simply mentioning their age in years, nothing more.
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Post by dan28 on May 21, 2023 12:31:45 GMT
I think Nicole Scherzinger is a much better fit for Norma than Patti Lupone ever was. Norma is a very specific type. She must be exceptionally beautiful, in an elegant, but slightly creepy way. Gloria Swanson is a perfect example of this. Translated to the stage version, Norma should look this elegant and have an equally fitting way of singing, a lot with head voice, which is all about painting with the words, nuance and details. That is what this role in the musical version is about. She paints with words while she looks at herself in the mirror and pulls the sides of her eyes up with her hands, reminiscing about younger days, with her big eyes.
This is a big contrast to Patti Lupone who was bleating through the score, without any attention for the words, everything on 1 volume, and who didn't act it well either. And she didn't look the part either.
Someone posted a clip of Scherzinger's Evita performance above and that clip really confirms my thoughts. In fact, her face and expressions remind me a lot of Gloria Swanson.
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Post by max on May 21, 2023 14:24:34 GMT
Not much to add to this except it's completely bizarre and out of nowhere. Is there really a market for this?? I thought it far more likely we'd be getting the gay male Tell Me on a Sunday or a new Starlight Express. I'm not complaining, though. I have no opinion on NS, other than she seems miscast in this. I have loved Jamie LLoyd's work but this isn't a high concept show like Evita or Assassins, where you have set piece scenes that don't exist in objective reality. This is a largely naturalistic show, albeit a heightened slightly dreamlike one - so it seems an odd fit for him. But I love this show and I'll never turn down an opportunity to see a new take on it. Isn't Don Black having a good run this year? Bonnie & Clyde, Aspects, Third Man and now this. I think it's 'sort of' High Concept already, though not a snapshot of tableaux / vignettes like Evita and Assassins. Just a high concept we're used to (medium concept?) with a Narrator controlling the action, even interrupting someone's else's tune ('New Ways To Dream'). Including Betty there's a lot in there about pulling other people into your world view (for which they probably have to snuff out some of their own reality to survive the leap). Currently, with Joe as the undoubted storyteller, it does feel that everyone else should be picture perfect naturalism. But I wonder if that narration could be spread around all the people tussling for control of their story and music, and trying to win over the others. Norma: I guess it was 5am Betty: A homicide had been reported etc. Joe: You see, an old time movie star is involved, maybe... Norma: The biggest star of all. if not, I'll be doing this version with hand puppets in Covent Garden Market.
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Post by max on May 21, 2023 14:59:00 GMT
Twist: It was Betty
Betty was running an errand for Artie (taking a gun to studio) when she received the call from Norma. When she apparently left Norma's mansion distraught Betty instead stood just outside and reaching into her bag for a tissue to wipe her tears she saw the gun. When Joe opened the front door to leave Norma forever Betty shot Joe. Poor Norma had picked up an old prop gun from a wall display and started brandishing it around, over dramatising the situation as usual, and now thinks that she actually killed Joe. For Betty it's the perfect crime.
As Joe staggers past Betty he utters a classic ALW-reprise line, gone all husky, faltering and a minor chord underscores: "Very good. Not much I can teach you". Splash.
And now I know what it feels like to be Ben Elton (Love Never Dies).
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128 posts
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Post by magnificentdonkey on May 21, 2023 15:42:03 GMT
This is a big contrast to Patti Lupone who was bleating through the score, without any attention for the words, everything on 1 volume, and who didn't act it well either. And she didn't look the part either. Hear, hear!
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Post by max on May 21, 2023 16:06:47 GMT
This is a big contrast to Patti Lupone who was bleating through the score, without any attention for the words, everything on 1 volume, and who didn't act it well either. And she didn't look the part either. Hear, hear! Watch out, I hear she wants a beach hut to go next to her swimming pool. ; )
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Post by bobbievanhusen on May 21, 2023 16:17:42 GMT
Of course the endings of the songs have more chest voice but the whole building up should be based on head/mix if you ask me. A form of delicate craftmanship that not many people have. Debra Byrne is my favourite Norma who understands this very well. When I hear her sing, I always picture that that's what Gloria Swanson of the original film should sound like, if the role was written as a sung role. i don't want my Norma to be trilling around that end of the scale. i want her to be more earthy, someone who is focusaed on getting what she wants, that can go head to head with Cecil B DeMille. Full belt please. I also like my Normas to be able to sing 'Me' not 'May'
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19,659 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 21, 2023 17:44:54 GMT
Debra Byrne is my favourite Norma who understands this very well. When I hear her sing, I always picture that that's what Gloria Swanson of the original film should sound like, if the role was written as a sungImagine no more. This is what Gloria Swanson actually sounded like in a song from her own ill fated attempt at a musical of SB βSunset!β And more info on the mess behind that
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Post by dan28 on May 22, 2023 12:24:33 GMT
"bobbievanhusen said: i don't want my Norma to be trilling around that end of the scale. i want her to be more earthy, someone who is focusaed on getting what she wants, that can go head to head with Cecil B DeMille. Full belt please. I also like my Normas to be able to sing 'Me' not 'May'"
I want her to be allround. Painting with finesse and head voice when needed en belt out the end when needed. That is what makes the character powerful and earthy. Not being able to do both makes the character weak and inadequate. Glenn Close's Norma could never go head to head with Cecil B DeMille.
Speaking of quality, here is a very rare recording of what in my opinion is the best version of "As if we never said goodbye" ever recorded. It is from the Australian promo cd and the orchestra is recorded from the actual show.
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7,054 posts
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Post by Jon on May 22, 2023 12:45:06 GMT
It'll be interesting to see how Nicole approaches Norma because I think while it's fun seeing the kooky, OTT Norma, I've seen bits of Betty Buckley who plays it more straight and actually her final descent at the end is more tragic because of it.
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Post by jacob on May 22, 2023 18:10:20 GMT
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Post by danb on May 22, 2023 18:30:40 GMT
We seriously have nothing to worry about. The chances of Lord Andy allowing another mis-fire are considerably less, likewise Nicole whose reinvention seems to be going great guns.
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287 posts
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Post by singingbird on May 22, 2023 18:52:41 GMT
Not much to add to this except it's completely bizarre and out of nowhere. Is there really a market for this?? I thought it far more likely we'd be getting the gay male Tell Me on a Sunday or a new Starlight Express. I'm not complaining, though. I have no opinion on NS, other than she seems miscast in this. I have loved Jamie LLoyd's work but this isn't a high concept show like Evita or Assassins, where you have set piece scenes that don't exist in objective reality. This is a largely naturalistic show, albeit a heightened slightly dreamlike one - so it seems an odd fit for him. But I love this show and I'll never turn down an opportunity to see a new take on it. Isn't Don Black having a good run this year? Bonnie & Clyde, Aspects, Third Man and now this. I think it's 'sort of' High Concept already, though not a snapshot of tableaux / vignettes like Evita and Assassins. Just a high concept we're used to (medium concept?) with a Narrator controlling the action, even interrupting someone's else's tune ('New Ways To Dream'). Including Betty there's a lot in there about pulling other people into your world view (for which they probably have to snuff out some of their own reality to survive the leap). Currently, with Joe as the undoubted storyteller, it does feel that everyone else should be picture perfect naturalism. But I wonder if that narration could be spread around all the people tussling for control of their story and music, and trying to win over the others. Norma: I guess it was 5am Betty: A homicide had been reported etc. Joe: You see, an old time movie star is involved, maybe... Norma: The biggest star of all. if not, I'll be doing this version with hand puppets in Covent Garden Market. I wonder if this would work - such an interesting idea (I mean the split narration, although I like the hand puppets notion too!) I've always seen it as essentially Joe's story - his need drives the narrative more than hers. If he hadn't entered the frame then she'd probably have got no further than daydreaming about her 'return'. Whereas right from the start, he's hustling for any opportunity out of necessity. I can see how a split narration works at the very start, but from 'let me take you back sixth months...' there'd have to be a lot of changes to make it work. And it's definitely Joe who crosses the dividing line into a new world after the car chase, with his 'Christ, where am I?' section, which, in a traditional narrative structure, usually signals the start of the hero's quest. Nevertheless, maybe it would be possible to reframe the entire piece. I think it's a really exciting possibility and I'm glad that modern classics like this are potentially already being reinvented. I hope it works but, even more, I hope it's interesting and thought provoking. I've already seen the classic take - I'm happy to see something new.
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287 posts
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Post by singingbird on May 22, 2023 21:27:16 GMT
I'd like it done as a chamber piece with just the four leads - Norma,Joe,Betty and Max and get rid of all the chorus who's numbers are just padding and do not further the plot at all - especially that dreadful male outfitters scene.I alway felt ALW just added those scenes to make it more of a musical. But I think you need the buzz of living Hollywood to contrast with the solitude and creepiness of Norma's dead Hollywood. Otherwise we don't understand the world that she's left behind and wants to get back into, and the irony of the fact that that bright and breezy world can be as empty and pretend as her solitary one.
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608 posts
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Post by chernjam on May 23, 2023 3:17:39 GMT
If it's "re-imagined" in any way, one thought that came to mind listening to Broadway Bob's "The Sunset Project" podcast where he interviewed one of the Max's (I think from the U.S. Tour) is seeing it as Max's story. If there's anyone pulling the strings in this marionette show its Max from Norma's delusions to helping suck Joe into this orbit. Just listening to the "Sunset Orchestral Suite" that ALW released last year where they finished it not with "With One Look" as the final musical motif reprised but "The Greatest Star of All" I thought how even musically that could be even more impactful. Definitely think there's something that could be done to make it divert a bit from the straight movie adaptation but without butchering it
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5,139 posts
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Post by Being Alive on May 23, 2023 8:51:19 GMT
Knowing Jamie Lloyd this will be set in an asylum with them all in a white box in grey tracksuits.
Only half joking but...
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3,426 posts
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Post by ceebee on May 23, 2023 9:30:04 GMT
Knowing Jamie Lloyd this will be set in an asylum with them all in a white box in grey tracksuits. Only half joking but... I think sequined tracksuits could work.
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Post by A.Ham on May 23, 2023 10:16:07 GMT
So I know Iβm being impatient, but does anyone know when this goes on sale? Iβm keen to get booking and know Iβm going!
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629 posts
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Post by christya on May 23, 2023 15:56:15 GMT
I'm torn on it - I'm not sure I approve of Nicole, but she does have a beautiful voice and will probably do well enough on the back of that to be worth a ticket, even if she can't act it (and hey, maybe she can). I doubt she'll have anyone leaving at the interval! I just wish she was ten years older.
I think for me I need to see what the overall production is like. I'm one of the few who actually liked the actor/musician one from a while back (and you won't normally hear me say I liked one of those!) but this time I think I just want SUNSET BOULEVARD. Big, shiny, massive sets, ornate costumes. A car on stage. Maybe not a real monkey corpse, though.
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5,139 posts
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Post by Being Alive on May 23, 2023 16:14:21 GMT
Will never forget La Close bringing the monkey on for a bow at the final matinee at the Coli - terrifying.
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