611 posts
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Post by chernjam on Nov 14, 2023 20:17:40 GMT
So with this run now over half way through, have increasingly found myself wondering what, if anything, it's legacy will be. I think it's safe ish to say it's been a pretty big success and possibly an unexpected one. Certainly based on this non scientific thread we have 85% at 4/5 stars which I think is a higher level of enthusiasm that the early pages of the thread would have predicted. Also appreciated by critics and a definite buzz from the public. Many of my vaguely-but-not-specifically-into-theatre friends have either seen it and loved it or have booked to see it. And for ALW after the chaos of Cinderella/Bad Cinderella, Aspects of Love failing to set the world alight and some hit and miss concerts, it's been easily his best selling and acclaimed show this side of the coronavirus. First I wonder if there could be a future life for this production in the UK. Seems certain it won't be extending, likely it won't be transferring and highly likely there can't be another run here with Nicole if she is taking it to Broadway. I would love for a further run to be announced hot of the heels of this one but I do wonder if they could do it without Nicole. No criticism at all of the alternate, but you need only look at the relative sales to see how much of a draw Scherzinger is. I kind of think there must be someone else like her that could take this forward, but I can't actually name one! But then I am neither Jamie Lloyd nor a casting director. Does anyone think it could have a future life in the UK? The second thing I wondered is if there are any other post Phantom ALW musicals that could have such an extreme reworking into such a breathtaking, hitherto unimagined production. Are there any that could have the Jamie Lloyd treatment? I've been through them all in my head and sadly am not sure there are. In fact I think it's testimony to what an insanely good musical Sunset Boulevard is that it has worked so well in a version so radically different from the original. And in fact as a result really of this production I think Sunset (already high in my estimation) has risen a long way above all the other post Phantom stuff. Be interested to hear if anyone thinks there is anything that could be revitalised in this way? Pre Phantom I'd love to see Lloyd's Evita return. And I think he could definitely do Phantom itself but while the original is still there that's not really going to be on the table. I know it's not Jamie Lloyd, but after Starlight Express, I do think a new radical take on Cats would be interesting. As like Starlight and Phantom, the original production is so welded to the piece - be good to see something new. I mean it has been tried before but never on a huge West End scale. Be that Lloyd or a different director. So I guess in summary as a huge ALW fan I do hope this may pave the way for some more epic revivals. I must confess my hunch though is that there isn't much that could generate this kind of buzz. That said I have high hopes for the new Starlight production and as for the rest, time will tell. (Oh and in the meantime, have I mentioned I am desperate for a new Sunset cast recording.....?!) So on this side of the Atlantic and only being able to live vicariously through so many of you wonderful people out their in the dark... oops, Sorry - so many of your wonderful reviews and explanations of this production, BVM brings up some interesting points. For ALW I don't ever remember a revival of his ever having this kind of buzz and this re-imagination. Partially because his shows usually ran for so long that it was hard to think of them not being done the same way (The chandelier to the Phantom; the staircase to Sunset?) Partially because we know ALW is a bit of a control freak and has become more so in recent years. As for Sunset - I had hoped and it sounds like this "re-invention" could have legs for it. I'm thinking that when it transfers to Broadway they're going to be thinking long-er run and perhaps further casting to keep it running post-Nicole. Because Jamie Lloyd seems to have made the story more accessible tapping into the tragedy of Narcissism that is common in celebrity and those who crave it in our social media age. How there's a human being there who longs to be seen, known and loved and having succumbed to the applause and seen it disappear is lost. So his approach could in a sense become the new "standard" for approaching Sunset as subsequent productions kept trying to adhere to Trevor Nunn's approach on a much more frugal budget. Oh and a trailer is coming NOW? I mean, I'm all for it - and hope that means there's further announcements coming (cast recording, transfer, etc) because otherwise, with only less than 8 weeks to go, they really don't need it |
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8,112 posts
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Post by alece10 on Nov 14, 2023 20:37:39 GMT
Trailer "dropping"! Oh how I hate that expression, almost as much as "season' instead of series.
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2,248 posts
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Post by richey on Nov 14, 2023 20:56:23 GMT
Trailer "dropping"! Oh how I hate that expression, almost as much as "season' instead of series. Me too. It all seems so careless. |
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Post by Matt on Nov 14, 2023 21:16:03 GMT
Trailer "dropping"! Oh how I hate that expression, almost as much as "season' instead of series. But they are different things, a series is the entire works, a season is a part of that. |
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Post by danb on Nov 14, 2023 21:35:24 GMT
I have been training myself not to be bothered by such irritations. The only person it hurts is ourselves. Let it go. I even ignore people that say “can I get” instead of ‘please may I have’. Big of me eh?
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3,444 posts
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Post by ceebee on Nov 14, 2023 23:17:42 GMT
I have been training myself not to be bothered by such irritations. The only person it hurts is ourselves. Let it go. I even ignore people that say “can I get” instead of ‘please may I have’. Big of me eh? "Let it go." I hate that expression. I struggled with Frozen. Until they dropped their trailer. |
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Post by thistimetomorrow on Nov 14, 2023 23:26:22 GMT
Well I really liked Gregor's Joe. I thought he did a fantastic job. I still prefer Tom overall, but I am so glad to have caught Gregor.
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Post by apubleed on Nov 15, 2023 7:59:51 GMT
The dynamic with the understudy Joe is that Norma seems more desperate and sadder than ever before - with Tom he held his own against Norma. It was a surprising force. It felt like they were a plausible match. With the understudy, it’s clear that Norma is so outside and different to what would be her normal type it comes across as a pathetic attempt to gain any social interaction. Overall I’d say Tom is stronger but it was an interesting dynamic and made Nicole an even more stronger star presence. In this kind of show, that’s not always a bad thing.
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Post by danb on Nov 15, 2023 8:25:42 GMT
I have been training myself not to be bothered by such irritations. The only person it hurts is ourselves. Let it go. I even ignore people that say “can I get” instead of ‘please may I have’. Big of me eh? "Let it go." I hate that expression. I struggled with Frozen. Until they dropped their trailer. 🤣😬🤣😬 |
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24 posts
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Post by mistertonymac on Nov 15, 2023 9:32:53 GMT
Saw this production for the first time last night and was really hoping it would blow me away....and it definitely did. Was initially a bit gutted that Gregor was on for Joe but thought he was great and a good match for Nicole.
I think this absolutely needs a big, famous and popular star in the role of Norma for this particular production to work. I shudder to think about it touring with someone from Emmerdale in it.
Loved when the credits rolled after the 'prologue' - was a thrilling bit of theatre. The balance between meta comedy, knowing winks and tragedy was really well balanced too. Me and my pal were completely buzzing after the show.
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Post by danb on Nov 15, 2023 10:28:29 GMT
Saw this production for the first time last night and was really hoping it would blow me away....and it definitely did. Was initially a bit gutted that Gregor was on for Joe but thought he was great and a good match for Nicole. I think this absolutely needs a big, famous and popular star in the role of Norma for this particular production to work. I shudder to think about it touring with someone from Emmerdale in it. Loved when the credits rolled after the 'prologue' - was a thrilling bit of theatre. The balance between meta comedy, knowing winks and tragedy was really well balanced too. Me and my pal were completely buzzing after the show. Hmmm Emmerdale? Who did you have in mind? Sounds interesting. Bernice would kill it. |
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Post by traveller15 on Nov 15, 2023 11:29:40 GMT
Agree re. Francis. I've never seen (or heard) a better Joe. Its funny how much time is spent on this forum discussing which actor/ actress is better than the other. Maybe it would be more supportive for us to discuss what different people bring to a role rather than whom is better than whom? Well, if Best is good enough for the Oliviers, it's good enough for me. |
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Post by traveller15 on Nov 15, 2023 11:40:09 GMT
So with this run now over half way through, have increasingly found myself wondering what, if anything, it's legacy will be. I think it's safe ish to say it's been a pretty big success and possibly an unexpected one. production and as for the rest, time will tell. (Oh and in the meantime, have I mentioned I am desperate for a new Sunset cast recording.....?!) Agree. I don't think anyone quite expected this... in terms of reaction. For me, three things stand: the casting of Scherzinger will probably be the template now. Many fine actresses, though of a certain age, have played the part effectively and memorably, but Scherzinger brought a physical sexiness to it that made the relationship between the two leads resonate like no pairing I've ever seen (though I thought the tweaks and excisions to the lyrics undermined the growing attraction - granted a conflicted attraction on Joe's part.) Second: it can be staged simply and effectively without looking cheap. I argued in another post having seen this and seen the mothership, I realized how the original set and costumes competed, perhaps sometimes distracted, from the story, especially in the last scene. (That said, I stand shoulder to shoulder with everybody who misses the staircase.) Third: To be viable, it's always going to need a star with broad appeal to get the bums in seats. I have no doubt Scherzinger could pack that theatre for six months or even a year. And amen in the recording... it deserves to be preserved. If nothing else, NS will probably release something at some point with her two big numbers. |
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Post by theoracle on Nov 15, 2023 12:06:48 GMT
I think Jamie Lloyd has proven a lot of us wrong with this production. I was certainly nervous until I saw The Effect and then began to think this might become something special and indeed it is. Not much to add on to what has already been said but I think that this radical reimagining has ultimately worked very well. I really enjoyed the use of cameras and the large screen. The orchestrations are to die for in particular during the car chase - I get goosebumps just thinking about them. Tom Francis is very much a star and I hope we see more of him post-Sunset. David Thaxton as always is a delight and still possesses one of the best voices in the West End. Grace Hodget Young did a lovely job as Betty too and served as a good match to Tom's Joe Gillis. As for Nicole... I liked her but I wasn't sure if I was convinced she was Norma... I didn't like the inclusion of the Young Norma and found the video fades between the two actors a little gimmicky and unnecessary. Some vocal overkill in the 2 big numbers but otherwise a fine performance. I think Nicole's presence definitely attracted a different audience, some less trained in theatre etiquette than others but good to see an Andrew Lloyd Webber show doing so well again in the West End. I'm curious to see Rachel as well before this comes off but for now, it's a solid 4* from me.
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Post by traveller15 on Nov 15, 2023 12:37:28 GMT
I quite agree about Young Norma... and the choreography for her still baffles me. But impressive core strength by any measure.
Also just thought is this production an apotheosis for the Jamie Lloyd style? Is this peak stripped down? Where does he go from here with it?
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3,334 posts
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Post by Dr Tom on Nov 15, 2023 12:58:22 GMT
I feel this would be very hard to tour. The set is simple, but this is very dependent on exact stage positions, camera angles, backstage locations, and the like. They would need to rework this for every venue and add rehearsal time.
Perhaps it could do long sit-down stops (as with the current Hamilton tour), but I don't think it could play for a week in different venues (at least not in its current form).
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611 posts
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Post by chernjam on Nov 15, 2023 13:04:47 GMT
I quite agree about Young Norma... and the choreography for her still baffles me. But impressive core strength by any measure. Also just thought is this production an apotheosis for the Jamie Lloyd style? Is this peak stripped down? Where does he go from here with it? If Jamie Lloyd is as visionary as has been described, I would think he'd need to do something a bit different in subsequent productions to show he's not "type-cast" in his style. On another note, As Sunset has now re-entered my consciousness far more with reading about it every day  I found myself watching on YouTube the "Sunset Blvd The Palace of Dreams" special that they did pre-Australian opening with Debra Byrne and a then very new-young Hugh Jackman. It was interesting to see and hear Trevor Nunn and Bob Appian talking about how they created and approached things and compare to what we hear and see with this new production. |
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Post by danb on Nov 15, 2023 13:23:36 GMT
I feel this would be very hard to tour. The set is simple, but this is very dependent on exact stage positions, camera angles, backstage locations, and the like. They would need to rework this for every venue and add rehearsal time. Perhaps it could do long sit-down stops (as with the current Hamilton tour), but I don't think it could play for a week in different venues (at least not in its current form). I think the stark, high walled grandeur of the Savoy is as much a part of this production as Nicole or the screen. It fits. I’m not sure it would do just anywhere. |
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2,684 posts
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Post by viserys on Nov 15, 2023 13:31:57 GMT
While I understand the desire to have this live on, go on tour and/or to Broadway, I can't help thinking it shouldn't be more than this brief "flash in the pan" at the Savoy, one of those "you had to be there" moments that are part of theatre history.
Jamie Lloyd has proven that he can impose his minimalist style successfully on a musical that really didn't seem to be fit for it.
ALW has proven that his bloated mega musicals can work in such a minimalist stripped-down version.
Nicole Scherzinger has proven that she can carry a musical on her shoulder and be amazing.
Capture it on a cast recording, so it won't be forgotten, but move on. Don't dilute it with a tour that can't recreate the magic or with performers who can't recreate the exact chemistry Scherzinger and Francis have at the Savoy.
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Post by theatreloverlondon on Nov 15, 2023 15:40:11 GMT
Has anyone tried getting last minute tickets? Would love to go tonight as I live down the road but there’s only 1 left for £125 🫣 would want to pay under 100.
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Post by yeahyeahyeahs on Nov 15, 2023 15:43:01 GMT
No not really day of. Was able to get one under 50 in the dress circle this past Monday. Has anyone tried getting last minute tickets? Would love to go tonight as I live down the road but there’s only 1 left for £125 🫣 would want to pay under 100. |
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Post by traveller15 on Nov 15, 2023 15:50:07 GMT
Has anyone tried getting last minute tickets? Would love to go tonight as I live down the road but there’s only 1 left for £125 🫣 would want to pay under 100. Got a 245 for 98.50 last Saturday, matinee, about 10 a.m. |
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Post by lolaluffneggle on Nov 15, 2023 15:55:15 GMT
Has anyone tried getting last minute tickets? Would love to go tonight as I live down the road but there’s only 1 left for £125 🫣 would want to pay under 100. I think because Nicole cancelled Friday/Saturday lots of people would’ve moved their tickets around this week. TKTS is always good but you need to get them early in the day. |
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Post by theatreloverlondon on Nov 15, 2023 16:00:01 GMT
Has anyone tried getting last minute tickets? Would love to go tonight as I live down the road but there’s only 1 left for £125 🫣 would want to pay under 100. I think because Nicole cancelled Friday/Saturday lots of people would’ve moved their tickets around this week. TKTS is always good but you need to get them early in the day. Thank you! I had my eye on one for 90 earlier today but it’s gone  will try another day then. |
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Post by theatreloverlondon on Nov 15, 2023 16:01:46 GMT
I think because Nicole cancelled Friday/Saturday lots of people would’ve moved their tickets around this week. TKTS is always good but you need to get them early in the day. Thank you! I had my eye on one for 90 earlier today but it’s gone will try another day then. Just as I finished typing this it came down from 125- 87 again!!! Yay |
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I found myself watching on YouTube the "Sunset Blvd The Palace of Dreams" special that they did pre-Australian opening with Debra Byrne and a then very new-young Hugh Jackman. It was interesting to see and hear Trevor Nunn and Bob Appian talking about how they created and approached things and compare to what we hear and see with this new production.
will try another day then.