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Post by distantcousin on Jul 26, 2023 7:44:22 GMT
My favourite was Ben Goddard, excellent performance. Yes, he was extremely good! He had a fire and intensity in his performance. On a side issue, one of my recent Airbnb guests noticed the theatrical "paraphenalia" in my house and commented that he was good friends with someone who "used to do all the West End shows". Met him on a cruise and become long term pals. When I asked the name, turns out it was Mr Goddard! |
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Post by Mr Crummles on Jul 26, 2023 8:23:44 GMT
Of all the Joe's I've seen, the only one I think that really got it spot on was the original, Kevin Anderson I agree. There was such a tiredness in him, a sense of someone beaten, disgusted and disillusioned, with a cynical sense of humour and sharp wit: all that was left from a once sparkling and creative mind. It's exactly what made the rest of the story work so well for me.
I always felt that Joe is the crux of the play. You can have great Normas, but without a really strong Joe, the show loses its organic strength.
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 26, 2023 8:40:47 GMT
Of all the Joe's I've seen, the only one I think that really got it spot on was the original, Kevin Anderson I also agree. It's great to see the love for him on this forum. With all the sacking of the two leads and Patti's reaction and carrying on I sometime think that he's been forgotten about. In fact he was the first Joe that I saw. I have both cast recordings and sometimes wish if I could Glenn Close's vocals against Kevin Anderson's it'd be the 'perfect' cast recording of this show. |
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 9:25:36 GMT
Joe Gillis is in his early 30s. William Holden was only 31 when they filmed “Sunset Blvd”. Tom may read younger than 31 but Norma needs to be older than he is and since Nicole doesn’t read “old” herself, for this production I think a younger Joe will work just fine. I mean, Norma is supposed to only be around 50 and we normally have actresses pushing 70 in the role. I don’t think a couple years either way for Joe makes any difference. I don't think we normally do. I think Glenn may have cemented herself to this so strongly that it makes us think we normally do! IMHO the best Normas have been in their late 40's or 50's and this is my personal preference! |
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 26, 2023 9:28:51 GMT
Joe actually sings (nay shouts) to Norma just before she shoots him "Nothings wrong with being 50! That is, unless, you're acting 20!"
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 9:34:12 GMT
Of all the Joe's I've seen, the only one I think that really got it spot on was the original, Kevin Anderson Haha, anyone that knows me will know that I will shout this from the rooftops to anyone that will listen. Kevin was sensational as the original Joe (and of course has the credit of creating the role in the musical). Understated, brooding, cynical, sexy, troubled, conflicted - fantastic MT voice and am honestly surprised he didn't do many (any?) more musicals. Just totally captured the essence of Joe. Once it went to LA, Joe was portrayed as your classic alpha male American jock and that portrayal stuck. Barrowman was similar. He sung it well but had none of the nuance and subtlety of Anderson. Patti was also my favourite Norma so the combination of her and Anderson was sublime. Coupled with the only set with the original orangey/Autumnal warm colouring and I feel truly lucky to have seen the first Adelphi version several times. I do feel sorry for the guy as he was almost invisible when it come to promoting Sunset at the time. Furthermore, he was also promised NYC and was as unceremoniously dumped as Patti when the LA cast moved in - though few remember that. I very much don't think he got an Andrew Lloyd Webber memorial swimming pool out of it.... Anyway - awesome to hear some love from him on here and to hear that others remember his performance. (Daniel Benzali and Meredith Braun were also sensational. Amazing times :-)) |
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 9:42:03 GMT
My favourite was Ben Goddard, excellent performance. Yes, he was extremely good! He had a fire and intensity in his performance. On a side issue, one of my recent Airbnb guests noticed the theatrical "paraphenalia" in my house and commented that he was good friends with someone who "used to do all the West End shows". Met him on a cruise and become long term pals. When I asked the name, turns out it was Mr Goddard! So I would have seen him in the CRH version so am very annoyed I don't really remember his performance. I manly remember La Evans who was wonderful but other than that it's mainly the oddness of the actor-muso set up I recall. According to Wiki Laura PP was Betty! Pre Aspects I thought I'd never seen her before lol - seems I was wrong! It was an unusual production but still enjoyed it. |
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Post by danb on Jul 26, 2023 9:45:26 GMT
Of all the Joe's I've seen, the only one I think that really got it spot on was the original, Kevin Anderson I also agree. It's great to see the love for him on this forum. With all the sacking of the two leads and Patti's reaction and carrying on I sometime think that he's been forgotten about. In fact he was the first Joe that I saw. I have both cast recordings and sometimes wish if I could Glenn Close's vocals against Kevin Anderson's it'd be the 'perfect' cast recording of this show. Glenns vocals or Glenns performance? I’d definitely agree with the latter, over anyone. I’d pop Paige at the top for vocal performance. |
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 10:00:43 GMT
Also agree that the perfect cast recording would be an amalgamation of London and LA.
But for me would be the entire London cast, but with the LA "definitive" book/score and orchestrations.
Expect I'll get killed for saying this on here but Glenn on CD is a big no for me. Even Dominique Deveraux and Faith Brown (also not primarily "singers") were a million times better IMHO.
Got me thinking - most "perfect" cast recordings of musicals would be a combo of what's out there. Very few have the perfect elements in all departments!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 26, 2023 10:23:02 GMT
Don’t worry, we’ve had the “Glenn can’t sing” discussion on here a gazillion times and nobody got killed yet!
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 10:43:55 GMT
Don’t worry, we’ve had the “Glenn can’t sing” discussion on here a gazillion times and nobody got killed yet! Phew 😰😂🤣! |
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Post by distantcousin on Jul 26, 2023 10:53:30 GMT
Yes, he was extremely good! He had a fire and intensity in his performance. On a side issue, one of my recent Airbnb guests noticed the theatrical "paraphenalia" in my house and commented that he was good friends with someone who "used to do all the West End shows". Met him on a cruise and become long term pals. When I asked the name, turns out it was Mr Goddard! So I would have seen him in the CRH version so am very annoyed I don't really remember his performance. I manly remember La Evans who was wonderful but other than that it's mainly the oddness of the actor-muso set up I recall. According to Wiki Laura PP was Betty! Pre Aspects I thought I'd never seen her before lol - seems I was wrong! It was an unusual production but still enjoyed it. I really enjoyed that production. Saw it 4 times! I thought Laura PP was marvellous as Betty! |
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Post by BVM on Jul 26, 2023 11:06:27 GMT
So I would have seen him in the CRH version so am very annoyed I don't really remember his performance. I manly remember La Evans who was wonderful but other than that it's mainly the oddness of the actor-muso set up I recall. According to Wiki Laura PP was Betty! Pre Aspects I thought I'd never seen her before lol - seems I was wrong! It was an unusual production but still enjoyed it. I really enjoyed that production. Saw it 4 times! I thought Laura PP was marvellous as Betty! I really wish I’d seen it more. Just went the once. Hit at a phase where I was too busy being gay and would have been found most nights on Old Compton St or similar…. |
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Jul 26, 2023 11:34:50 GMT
My favourite was Ben Goddard, excellent performance. Yes, he was extremely good! He had a fire and intensity in his performance. On a side issue, one of my recent Airbnb guests noticed the theatrical "paraphenalia" in my house and commented that he was good friends with someone who "used to do all the West End shows". Met him on a cruise and become long term pals. When I asked the name, turns out it was Mr Goddard! I’m sure he was great, but fire and intensity are not two qualities I associate with Joe. Norma, yes, but Joe not so much; he has to be worn down and disillusioned, otherwise he’d never drift into such a dysfunctional relationship. |
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Post by toomasj on Jul 26, 2023 11:39:19 GMT
So I would have seen him in the CRH version so am very annoyed I don't really remember his performance. I manly remember La Evans who was wonderful but other than that it's mainly the oddness of the actor-muso set up I recall. According to Wiki Laura PP was Betty! Pre Aspects I thought I'd never seen her before lol - seems I was wrong! It was an unusual production but still enjoyed it. I really enjoyed that production. Saw it 4 times! I thought Laura PP was marvellous as Betty! Couldn’t agree more - all three were terrific, throw in Dave Willetts as Max and it’s an outstanding cast. To be honest, it’s the best production of Sunset that I’ve seen. For the record the only others I’ve seen live; 2 x am-dram, UK tour with Faith Brown and Earl Carpenter, concert with Glenn Close and Michael Xavier |
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Post by distantcousin on Jul 26, 2023 11:42:55 GMT
Yes, he was extremely good! He had a fire and intensity in his performance. On a side issue, one of my recent Airbnb guests noticed the theatrical "paraphenalia" in my house and commented that he was good friends with someone who "used to do all the West End shows". Met him on a cruise and become long term pals. When I asked the name, turns out it was Mr Goddard! I’m sure he was great, but fire and intensity are not two qualities I associate with Joe. Norma, yes, but Joe not so much; he has to be worn down and disillusioned, otherwise he’d never drift into such a dysfunctional relationship. I think it was how he was directed. "Too Much In Love To Care" was reinterpreted in a way I've never seen it done before. Less romantic, more frustrated. |
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Post by toomasj on Jul 26, 2023 11:47:36 GMT
I’m sure he was great, but fire and intensity are not two qualities I associate with Joe. Norma, yes, but Joe not so much; he has to be worn down and disillusioned, otherwise he’d never drift into such a dysfunctional relationship. I think it was how he was directed. "Too Much In Love To Care" was reinterpreted in a way I've never seen it done before. Less romantic, more frustrated. I adored this version of the song/scene. It turned from a boring ballad (in my view) which stops the narrative moving forward into a frustrated, bitter domestic row which sounds ridiculous, but on stage worked beautifully. I wouldn’t be CRH’s biggest fan (to put it mildly) but he had some absolutely delicious ideas in this production. “Girl Meets Boy” was absolutely gorgeous too. The other thing with Ben, was he absolutely had the snarky cynicism down when needed, it just wasn’t all one note which I appreciated. He felt like a real person, not Chandler from Friends quipping with a sarcastic expression at everything and anything. |
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Post by drowseychap on Jul 27, 2023 1:09:44 GMT
I’ve seen quite a few productions of this over the years live and one of the best Norma’s I saw was Katherine evens … there’s clips on YouTube of her on Paul o grady show too love in the theatre she was outstanding.
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Post by theatrefan62 on Jul 27, 2023 7:07:19 GMT
Joe actually sings (nay shouts) to Norma just before she shoots him "Nothings wrong with being 50! That is, unless, you're acting 20!" I do think slightly too much emphasis is put on this line as being a hard and fast casting rule. 50 in th 1950s is very different to being 50 today. Even 50 in the 1990s is different to today. Having someone older than 50 I think works better for the fragility of Norma, and the shock value of her and Joe's relationship, which in 1950 was shocking. These days no one would bat an eye. |
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Post by danb on Jul 27, 2023 7:29:38 GMT
Joe actually sings (nay shouts) to Norma just before she shoots him "Nothings wrong with being 50! That is, unless, you're acting 20!" I do think slightly too much emphasis is put on this line as being a hard and fast casting rule. 50 in th 1950s is very different to being 50 today. Even 50 in the 1990s is different to today. Having someone older than 50 I think works better for the fragility of Norma, and the shock value of her and Joe's relationship, which in 1950 was shocking. These days no one would bat an eye. The inference in the 1950’s would be that he was a male prostitute (which he kind of ends up as). The inference today would just be that she’s a cougar and well done. |
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Post by newyorkcityboy on Jul 27, 2023 7:40:42 GMT
Fair enough to appeal to modern sensibilities, but it is a period piece about the history of the cinema and needs to fit the timeline. If Norma is 70, her career would have come to an end when she was 50. And she would have been in her 30s when she got famous. Which would have been incredibly rare for the talkies. (Women over 30 were considered over the hill, IIRC; it was a very different story for men, like Charlie Chaplin etc.) The line ‘we were young when movies were born’ would have to be changed to ‘we were middle-aged when movies were born’. Which doesn’t quite have the same ring…
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Post by anthony40 on Jul 27, 2023 8:01:32 GMT
If you could have seen her at 17, when all of her dreams were new; beautiful and strong before it all went wrong.....
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 27, 2023 18:26:15 GMT
I do think slightly too much emphasis is put on this line as being a hard and fast casting rule. 50 in th 1950s is very different to being 50 today. Even 50 in the 1990s is different to today. Having someone older than 50 I think works better for the fragility of Norma, and the shock value of her and Joe's relationship, which in 1950 was shocking. These days no one would bat an eye. The inference in the 1950’s would be that he was a male prostitute (which he kind of ends up as). The inference today would just be that she’s a cougar and well done. I always think the word Norma pulls back from saying is “gigolo”. |
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Post by danb on Jul 27, 2023 19:51:29 GMT
The inference in the 1950’s would be that he was a male prostitute (which he kind of ends up as). The inference today would just be that she’s a cougar and well done. I always think the word Norma pulls back from saying is “gigolo”. To Betty? Yes, me too. |
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Post by BVM on Jul 27, 2023 20:54:50 GMT
He’s just a….. I can’t say it!
Poor Betty. You ask him! I’d love to hear his answer.
God this show is iconic!
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