1,970 posts
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Post by sf on Sept 23, 2018 23:09:06 GMT
The issues are about the process and promotion 1 - The show wasn't ready - meaning early audiences were not shown the final sequences. It could have been done in concert format - but it wasn't. It was just left hanging. 2 - It was promoted initially as finished product. And it was later described as a work in progress - with no reduction in prices. If they had been honest from the start and priced accordingly, most of this backlash could have been avoided. It was a failure in the rehearsal room as they couldn't get it ready in time It was a failure of management in allowing that to happen It was a failure of the whole theatre not to have managed this properly Shows should be allowed to develop - no-one has denied that. But you have to respect your audiences enough to be honest about where they actually were in the process.
I agree with all of this, and I generally think it's very important indeed for producers and managements to do the audience the respect of informing them when they're paying for work in progress - which is why, in another thread, I was less than overjoyed when the opening night of another show was moved, which meant the ticket I'd booked is now for a preview, which is not what I'd originally paid for.
And having said that, I saw this on Wednesday afternoon and thought a lot of it was absolutely superb, and I'm very glad I went.
And having said THAT, I only paid £15 for the ticket (a rail-in-view seat in the dress circle), although I paid far more than that for train fares etc on top, and the performance I saw was not incomplete, and was not presented concert-style. I imagine I might be a lot less charitably inclined if I'd been at one of the performances where they finished without performing the last twenty minutes of the show, or if I'd paid more for the ticket. I do think once they decided to label the entire run as previews some concession ought to have been made to people who had booked in advance, even if it was just a voucher for a free programme or a coffee in the bar.
There has clearly been some bad planning and/or bad management here. There's also been some illness among the cast - Genesis Lynea was still out of the show - at a very inopportune point in the process, and I'm inclined to cut them some slack for that, and for having to scramble to get understudies ready. That's just plain bad luck, and it can happen to anybody.
Despite all the bumps in the road, though, they've ended up with a show that, with a little bit of tweaking, deserves to be a major hit. I'm glad it's coming back, and I hope it has a softer landing next time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 23:20:07 GMT
Again, pure speculation (which would seem to be ‘quite harmful to people’s careers’). That also sounds like projection from previous experience to me, seeing as we are on the subject of pure speculation. It is. I've worked with lots of directors who've over-ran, and the knock on effect has meant everyone else had less time. What's your point Cardinal Pirelli? Your confirmation of my suspicion pretty much makes the point for me. |
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19,651 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 24, 2018 9:29:18 GMT
Wow. People are really angry about this but I still don’t get why. Angry? Are they? I haven’t seen anyone getting angry. I’ve seen people expressing a negative opinion about how it’s been handled which they’re entitled to do, just as you’re entitled to your overwhelmingly positive one. No-ones telling you you’re wrong, are they? |
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Post by paddy72 on Sept 24, 2018 10:00:25 GMT
BurleyBeaR you say that everyone is entitled to an opinion yet the way you chastise me for having an ‘overwhelmingly positive one’ suggests to me that you actual believe otherwise and that opinions that do not align with your own should not be allowed air time. My view of this production is overwhelmingly positive and in the light of a negative previous trail regarding production issues I wanted to express that. And Seriously we’ve all been let down by cancelled and changed previews at some time but it does not make this a bad production or the producers bad people.
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19,651 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 24, 2018 10:13:14 GMT
I haven’t chastised you for having a positive opinion, I just said you’re entitled to it. How can that be chastising you? Pretty much everyone whose seen it has had some positive feedback about it but even if it was the greatest show on earth people are still entitled to call out where they think things are wrong with either the show or how it’s being managed. That doesn’t make them “angry”, it makes them people with different opinion to yours. We’re here to discuss all aspects of it, positive and negative, not close down other points of view by implying that people are being unreasonable.
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4,153 posts
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Post by kathryn on Sept 24, 2018 12:10:59 GMT
Good grief. What do people have against this show? I don’t even think you’ve seen it. Why the hatred? I saw it on Saturday and it is powerful theatre...and it will only get better. Or perhaps we can all just keep talking about bloody Blood Brothers and pretend that’s a modern British musical we should all be proud of? I have issue with them charging full price for a show which was clearly incomplete for at least 80% of the shows that were performed. Not all were offered refunds. You might have been lucky enough to see the full show but hundreds of people were not. It should never have been advertised as anything more than a workshop. I had a friend express interest in seeing this the other week - she was thinking of going with someone from work. I told her I'd heard good things about it but that there had been teething problems - including the ending not being performed - and that she might want to wait a bit to make sure she got to see the full show. She and her work friend would have booked full-price tickets to it without even knowing that it was a work in progress rather than a fully finished production. That's just plain not fair. It's all right if you're in the know, and getting what you expect, but this is one of those shows that is aiming to get that elusive 'new audience member' in through the door. Someone who is not a theatre geek is unlikely to have any idea that such a thing as a work-in-progress even exists, let alone that a major producing theatre like the Old Vic might charge you full price for it. |
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Post by anthem on Sept 24, 2018 15:35:52 GMT
I saw it at full price and at full running time (which could easily have had 30 mins cut out)- I really enjoyed it for what it is but I don't think it's unreasonable for people who saw a truncated or concert version to feel short changed. I don't think anyone here is being vindictive about it; it's just expressions of genuine disappointment/ frustration.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 16:40:44 GMT
I think the problem is that whilst I’m in agreement that there have been some serious shortfalls here in terms of communication to the ticket buying public and the organisation of the piece, people who disagree with that point of view *may* feel that the way that point is currently being made is deterring them from saying otherwise on this thread.
Before we churn out the old chestnut of “we are all entitled to our opinion - this is a discussion board for discussion” I think it ought to be considered that when posters are not in agreement with the majority, they are instantly challenged and the clap backs are worded in a way to seem belittling and that there is no other point of view to be had. That’s just the way it looks from an outside perspective.
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Post by Seriously on Sept 24, 2018 17:22:45 GMT
Or people could just make better arguments?
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Post by paddy72 on Sept 24, 2018 17:23:38 GMT
I haven’t chastised you for having a positive opinion, I just said you’re entitled to it. How can that be chastising you? Pretty much everyone whose seen it has had some positive feedback about it but even if it was the greatest show on earth people are still entitled to call out where they think things are wrong with either the show or how it’s being managed. That doesn’t make them “angry”, it makes them people with different opinion to yours. We’re here to discuss all aspects of it, positive and negative, not close down other points of view by implying that people are being unreasonable. BurleyBeaR without wishing to drag this out, I would like to point out that your new note is not really practicing what you preach. You write that you haven’t chastised me but then go on to do so again writing I am shutting down different opinions to my own by implying people are being unreasonable about the show. Are you now trying to shut me down? You object to my use of the word ‘anger’ as a reflection of some of the comments about the show that went before mine. When other reviews have used expressions like ‘incredibly insulting’, ‘good grief what do people have against this show’ and ‘why the hatred’ I don’t think that my expression of surprise that some people were angry about the production was unfounded. You also need to re read the feedback reviews by everyone who has seen the show as they are by no means wholly positive as you imply. Differing opinions on theatreboard about any production are always great to read. Even more so when they are at odds with my own. I would suggest, in a non combative way, that we both should stick to doing just that. Neither of us really needs to teach the other a lesson in how to have a valid opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 17:45:26 GMT
Or people could just make better arguments? Not everybody engages with this board to argue. It is possible to state your views without picking apart those of others. Disagreeing with somebody else’s opinions is one matter, but not respecting them is another entirely. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 17:58:01 GMT
You can’t argue against an opinion, it’s an opinion and therefore it has its own validity. You can agree or disagree or something in between but not argue against it.
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Post by Seriously on Sept 24, 2018 18:03:18 GMT
Or people could just make better arguments? Not everybody engages with this board to argue. It is possible to state your views without picking apart those of others. Disagreeing with somebody else’s opinions is one matter, but not respecting them is another entirely. I don't feel you're respecting my opinion. Could you do something about that please? |
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19,651 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 24, 2018 18:29:45 GMT
Ok well let’s just agree to differ and respect everyone’s different opinions. And I include myself in that of course paddy72 if it didn’t come across that way! It’s really not worth arguing about is it. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 21:40:46 GMT
If you think this is getting heated, you should have seen all the stuff people were writing on here during the previews of Les Mis at the Barbican
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700 posts
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Post by cheesy116 on Sept 24, 2018 21:43:18 GMT
This is nothing compared to Daniel J v AliceFearnFan, now that was a fun time  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 9:36:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 9:43:01 GMT
Finally! So excited about this.
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Post by danieljohnson14 on Apr 30, 2019 12:11:18 GMT
That's exciting! I wonder where it could go if it were to transfer?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 6:34:41 GMT
How lovely. Let's hope that they manage to do the development work before it gets to the stage this time instead of during the show itself.
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Post by horton on May 1, 2019 10:39:01 GMT
So much potential- I hope they get it to work this time.
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4,778 posts
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Post by Mark on Sept 30, 2022 9:33:02 GMT
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 30, 2022 9:47:10 GMT
After a very unhappy start, we can only hope they have put the work in to avoid the chaos of the first production
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Post by firefingers on Sept 30, 2022 9:52:11 GMT
Had blanked this one from my memory, thankfully I'd reviewed it in this thread to bring it flooding back. I believe good show was buried in the mess, so hopefully, they've managed to find it.
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Post by southstreet on Sept 30, 2022 10:15:23 GMT
Yes, it had a lot of potential, so am intrigued. I hope they also managed to actually find Sylvia, cos its previous incarnation would have been better served just being called Pankhurst.
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