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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:31:59 GMT
Sleep well my friend, these kind of reactions between you and me are going nowhere. Our points are clear.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:27:55 GMT
Still going on this one? Must be a wind up. You being serious today? Yeah, I think I'm done for the day. Made my point. An important point. Sleep well!
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:26:56 GMT
Well, I'll give you a hint: it's the reason we're seeing such widespread protests. This is not just about George Floyd. Using racism to defend such a high criminality rate? Wow. But you are definitely right about that last line, these protests are not about George Floyd. Many protesters are just too confused to understand this.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:17:56 GMT
Black people constitute 12% of the population and yet, constitute 53 % of all criminality Has it occured to you to ask why? You tell me.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:15:25 GMT
Just heard this today for the first time and thought it would suit this thread. Considering it's in an informal nonperformance setting, the detail in his storytelling is quite astonishing. Thank you so much for this video! It is incredible and gives me goosebumps and brings tears to my eyes. It is exactly what I meant to describe in my first post. Jeremy lets the sung notes work as actors too, and only then the acting will be truthful when you sing. It is really acting through song instead of acting in spite of song. Very emotional. Making the notes beautiful, nuanced, soaring, sometimes soft and gentle, sometimes changing to 3 different emotions over the course of 1 note and sometimes louder, it's pure art.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 19:34:35 GMT
Because white Americans constitute somewhere around 60% of the population.
This isn't difficult, unless you choose not to see it.
This makes it even worse. What do you not understand? Black people constitute 12% of the population and yet, constitute 53 % of all criminality and police encounters. The criminality rate of black Americans towers over the criminality rate of white Americans, and yet, the number of unarmed white criminals killed by police towers over the numbers of black unarmed criminals killed by police. That is what this whole discussion is about and what is explained in the video.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 19:29:06 GMT
Let's applaud the low number of black unarmed criminals killed by police together. And protest against the alarmingly high number of white unarmed killed criminals, because what is actually happening there? Let's not applaud ANY unarmed criminals being killed by the police, because to do so is abhorrent. Applauding a disproportionate low number I say. And be thankful. Not applauding criminals. That is what you and protesters are doing right now and that is actually abhorrent.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 19:22:19 GMT
And actually that article shows an unarmed black person is more likely to be shot and killed by the police than an unarmed white person. Then why were 19 unarmed white persons killed by police last year versus 9 unarmed black persons? While 53% of the criminals and 12% of the population is black. So both the number AND the percentages are higher. Clearly the truth went against all "likelyness".
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 14:51:20 GMT
Steven, I know the numbers and percentages. The percentages are off as they make no distinction between unarmed criminals and the high number of armed ones that actually attack police.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 14:46:38 GMT
Dave25 Do you agreee with this statement: 'the colour of ones skin has an impact on ones ability to live free anywhere in the USA' For some people it does, for others it does not. And claiming the victim role in cases where it is not fair makes it worse. Black people in the USA can become anything they want, and the ones that worked for it have. Just like any other person. This unites. Then there's the group that desires pity, even in situations where it's completely unfounded, which makes companies scared so they demand privileges. This creates a gap and makes sure these people will not be seen as equals because they don't see and present themselves as equals. It's a downward spiral. Nobody denies there is and will always be racism. Uniting and standing strong solves this. Not milking the victim role and point fingers. Let's applaud the low number of black unarmed criminals killed by police together. And protest against the alarmingly high number of white unarmed killed criminals, because what is actually happening there? This is not about the ones who swing guns at the police. Stay stable and sane everybody.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 13:51:41 GMT
Today I came across this video and I think it is a wonderful example of acting through song. All the nuances, coloring of the notes and emotional finesse is absolutely wonderful. This is much better acted than for example Russel Crowe in Les Mis. There tends to be a trend going on that apologizing for singing means better acting. This video proves the opposite (and there are thousands of more examples of course). I know this take is not sung live, as it is clearly pre-recorded as the video does not matches certain takes, but this only adds to the element of sung thoughts in acting. Anyway, I think this video is a piece of art and I wish more movie musical felt like this, with this kind of acting. Through notes.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 12:47:20 GMT
Dave25 Being killed as you say is not as clear cut but being shot and injured is and nearly every statistic in the US shows the odds of being considered a miscreant is greatly increased by the darkness of your skin. I have also found it interesting today that there is more outrage about the toppling of a statue than there is for the 20,000 people who died whilst being transported and the thousands that were inhumanely branded and treated as livestock in that persons hands in the media and the use of the word thuggery was not used passively. I know, and that is misleading information. Because the 12% black population of the USA is responsible for more than half of all crimes. Cops killed by black criminals is 10 fold the amount of cops being killed by white criminals. All these statistics say something and surely officers must be careful too. Floyd's death was tragic, and so were all the white criminal's deaths. All the killed cops in these protests and the death of a 4 year old black girl is also unforgivable.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 12:38:42 GMT
. Also the fact that all those celebrities and companies admit that they just do it for fear while actually disagreeing very strongly shows how poisonous the situation is. Or how spineless and self obsessed those celebs and companies are What choice do they have?
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 12:28:00 GMT
she's essentially said black men murdered by the police deserved it She literally says that the police officer is wrong and needs to be punished for taking a human life in an unnecessary way. And that there is no question about that. She also says that last year 19 unarmed white men were killed by the police versus 9 unarmed black men,while 53% of police encounters was with black men and that they also did not deserve it. She says that when you swing guns at the police you deserve it. So you can stop sticking with your chosen fake narrative now. She did not say what you claim she said. Do not make that up. Thank you.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 12:25:44 GMT
Liked this eloquent piece of writing on racism. Great post, and what is described there is very true. People like Daniel, myself, and Candace understand this and see the real path out of this. Which is taking responsibility when it's there and not when it's not there. Never going in the victim role because we are equals per definition and work hard to show that. Especially in situations like these where the number of police deaths of white unarmed criminals towers above the number of black unarmed criminals. Looking at facts is a good way to start and to not create unnecessary division and unfair judgements which only takes away from human lives.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 12:11:14 GMT
Poster J, no worries, you are as entitled to your opinion as anyone else is. That's what a forum is for.
sf, you won't even watch her video we are discussing? Then you have no right to join this discussion. Also, the point you make about 2.5 times likely is completely floored by the statistics and is based on the alarmingly hight number of armed black criminals who attack police officers. This disussion is about unarmed criminals.
The Matthew, the thing is that this problem is about facts. I only make points when things are proven. But with that said, I have made my point now, so I will leave it at this. I think it s a very important point to make and the truth can not be denied given the numbers. Also the fact that all those celebrities and companies admit that they just do it for fear while actually disagreeing very strongly shows how poisonous the situation is.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 10:47:43 GMT
Racism from black people? What do you have to say about her video? She explains the situation very well and it is only about facts.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 10:41:33 GMT
I meant her video. The numbers do not lie.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 10:27:23 GMT
It is unfair that George Floyd is treated as a hero and a martyr now Wow. Please watch the video and you will understand.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 10:26:40 GMT
I think her standpoint in this is quite neutral and sane. And she is not the only one by the way.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 9:57:38 GMT
I think these protests do more harm than good and the results will create a separation bigger than ever before. There is no doubt that the police officer was wrong, a power tripper who treated a criminal in an unfair way and he needs to be judged for it.
With that said, these protests have taken the lives of many police officers now, ruined an incredible amount of (black) lives, people have been stabbed and shot, including the many people that lost their lives because of protesters was a 4 year old black girl. Dead.
Every person using the George Floyd situation to address systemic racism in the country has blood on their hands. And let me explain that. Last year, 19 white unarmed criminals were killed in police encounters versus 9 black unarmed criminals. This is a huge difference. And this while 53% of the police encounters was with black people. This difference in percentage is unreal. This means that black people are actually being spared by police immensely. The rest of the cases was armed criminals and cases of self defense.
The amount of police officers killed by black criminals is 10 fold the amount of police officers killed by white criminals. Police officers must therefore be extra careful.
It is unfair that George Floyd is treated as a hero and a martyr now, not only because of these numbers, but also because he has been in jail 7 times. He was just released from prison, because he broke into a pregnant woman's house, held her at gunpoint while he robbed her house and assaulted her. What happened last week was an encounter between a police officer and a heavy criminal. The media is trying to hide this. Also the fact that he threw away bags of drugs during his arrest is hidden in the media. Because this caused the cop to put him on the ground, as it is an extra danger, he could be armed too.
The protests about this case are completely out of line and the protesters seem to have even less respect for human life than the police officer. Yes, there is systemic racism. Only this case had nothing to do with that. Actually with the opposite when you look at the numbers.
Black people in the USA dominate the pop charts, can become president, actors, talkshow hosts, lawyers, judges, we were actually going into the right direction years ago, step by step things were going better. To stay in musical terms, black people play Phantom, Evan Hansen, Billy Elliot, Glinda, etc. People tended to think less in color. Now, the gap is bigger than ever before. Nobody dares to treat a black person as a normal person anymore. The percentage in the casting world seems to be really off lately, in every commercial of 2 there is at least one black person. Now I don't mind this, but we must realize that this is completely off from the 12% of the population that is black. Why are companies so nervous and scared? Because there are so many other races out there, for example Asian people who do not have this social benefit/privilege. And even when the percentages are so much higher than the actual population, isn't that a wonderful thing to celebrate? Never before have I seen 1 black person in every commercial of 2. And yes, that is a privilege.
Someone mentioned that the protests seem to work. I think they do not. The reason these companies do things is because of total panic and fear of being called racist. While many of those companies were actually seeing people as people before. I'm sure casting directors (to give a random example) will give even more roles to black people now, to a point where it does not match society anymore in the slightest. But people have found out that "the victim role" is excellent to get what you want and if you scream loud enough, nobody dares to say anything about it. My question is, when are people content? How high must the difference be/stay?
Poster J said that the George Floyd protests and systemic racism should actually be separated in 2 different threads. I agree. Both things have nothing to do with eachother.
Here is a clip of a black American lady who can explain it better from her perspective:
There is a huge movement coming up. This lady has received letters from celebrities and athletes who have written her in privacy, thanking her— claiming that the mob is making them support #BLM publicly, even though they disagree with the message, privately. They are afraid to lose their careers but know the truth and are a part of the silent (silenced) majority.
And here are the actual numbers of the total amount of people killed by police officers in the USA annually:
Whites 55% Blacks 27% Hispanic 19%
While 53% of police encounters is with black people. Can anyone provide me with 1 name of a white or hispanic person that was killed by a police officer this year?
Some fruit for thought.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 21:03:32 GMT
Nope, it doesn't make any sense at all. We have spent too much time and attention on that racist article.
Let's contribute to the movie director discussion and other Miss Saigon stuff.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 20:46:05 GMT
It's racist for Diep Tran to complain about the way white writers chose to portray a character from her own country and culture? Please explain how. It's been a long few months and I could really use a laugh. First, "white writers", is a racist and world alienated remark. This says nothing about the story, the boat people, refugees and bargirls and the story of madame butterfly this is based on. But I think you hit the nail on its head there. The writer of that article is racist and this given is her problem per definition. She just hates white people. If you really want a laugh, look at these remarks in the article: "Kim shoots herself over race. This show is about "whiteness kills you". Kim chooses Chris over Thuy because of race." Secondly, she says: "Asian women are resilient, resourceful, strong, not victims. Instead, in Miss Saigon, Kim, a woman with no last name, sings about her longing for a man to save her". If you weren't laughing loud enough I'm sure you do it now. Of course it's bizarre to hate white people and hate a show were a character is not embodying your perfect fantasy person or doesn't have the job she feels that represents her well enough, but you know, characters are not meant to represent a whole group of people or an ego. This is a story about a bargil, and many of them existed. The thing is, Kim is everything she describes (resilient, strong, not a victim) and fights till the end for her son, so she clearly hasn't seen the show. She just wants to diss white people. In reality most bargirls and boat people were probably not nearly as heroic or strong, but the writers chose to make her a strong heroine. But that's ok. It is still believable and that's what counts, even when the story is partially real and partially fiction.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 16:59:20 GMT
but some things are simply wrong. Times have changed. The whole world has changed. And yes, this causes little details here and there to be adjusted. Now it's fixed, so you can choose to applaud it, or to keep complaining about these details that once were. Same goes for yellowface casting. Once accepted. Today we live in a different world. All those things are progress. But claiming today that: "Kim shoots herself over race. This show is about "whiteness kills you". Kim chooses Chris over Thuy because of race. The casting is yellowface." Is racist and moving backwards. That's not fair and has nothing to do with the show how it is today.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 16:51:37 GMT
Thanks for that video link David, interesting!
I agree, maybe it's better to not ruin this beautiful material with an Oscar bait Hollywood adaptation. I wish there would be more directors with actual passion and vision.
In the past there have been musicalfilms that work (Moulin Rouge, Evita, Chicago) because they are stylistic and embrace the non-literal element which for example Tom Hooper completely fails to understand.
The only way they will work is indeed through hyper stylisation, to replace the non-literal form of this material. Or indeed, animation. Overcoming suspension of disbelief of the language. More like a videoclip. A fantasy element of storytelling. A non-literal world with non-literal bleating in eachothers face.
I have never understood why Hollywood does not understand this. Anyone can see that it works better. It's not like people ran out of the cinema during "A whole new world" in Aladdin in 1992. People can handle it. It's actually what they want when visiting a musical film.
The idea that a "realistic" approach means apologizing for the sung thoughts and the language of this artform needs to go.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 16:34:01 GMT
Exactly. CHRIS: It's pretty, but what does it mean? KIM: It means the authors and producer were so entrenched in their white colonialist arrogance that they couldn't even be bothered to go out and find a native speaker to write TWELVE SYLLABLES of Vietnamese. Kim literally says they didn't know what else to sing. Where do they claim it's actually meant to be a real language? I have actually always like the fact that it was some fantasy prayer. Random beautiful sounds. Each country has that and it leaves something to the imagination. With that said, the whole show is not in Vietnamese, so that is ok but a fantasy prayer isn't?
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 9:55:23 GMT
No Betty. Thinking in human is not racism. If you would like to discuss this further or learn something about being human you can send me a DM as we are not allowed to discuss it here.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 9:42:50 GMT
It’s also the same Miss Saigon where the creatives didn’t employ Vietnamese leads because they figured Viennese can’t do musical theatre Can you give me a link to a girl with the same talent and who fits the role of Kim as good as Lea Salonga? They actually have Vietnamese girls in the show, sometimes even playing Kim, but luckily casting is still about a certain standard. But they might find more in the future. What exactly is your point? That other Asian people should stay locked behind the border of their own country? That one Asian person can not play a role from another Asian country? Who are you to decide they can't? Must the Engineer be born in France too? The road to equality begins where you stop drawing lines in the sand.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 9:33:35 GMT
sf lord knows you tried. How Dave25 is still allowed an account on this forum I don't know. Because I am always kind and stable and reasonable and explain my thoughts. That's actually how a forum works. Are you able to understand this? Threatening with deleting accounts when an opinion differs from yours is not how a forum works. Get out of your judgemental victim role and start discussing your point too.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 7, 2020 0:05:02 GMT
Wrong, supporting her is supporting racism.
For me it's always human and human only. That's why I love Miss Saigon so much, it rises above it all.
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