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Post by alicechallice on Apr 4, 2022 12:08:19 GMT
I was there Saturday and would echo the previous posters who liked it. Not quite as subtle in its punches as KCIII (if you can call that subtle) and I’m not sure how much the critics will like it but it was really entertaining. Carvel was a marvel.
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 4, 2022 14:21:00 GMT
I've been mulling this over pretty continuously since Thursday and I still can't decide if I liked it or not!
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Post by anthony on Apr 4, 2022 22:50:45 GMT
I think I really enjoyed it. Think. I'm not entirely sure that you need to make Trump into a caricature. He's already so ridiculous, that it wasn't needed and I'd say even took away from some moments. I think it missed the characterisation of the Trumps quite a few times and there were a couple of loose ends in Act 1 - what did Jill Biden do that was so shocking that the mere threat of it causes Lady Macbethesque sleepwalks for Biden, for example?
Carvel was wonderful, though. We were in the Baylis Circle and honestly, he looked so much like Trump it was scary.
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 4, 2022 23:50:31 GMT
what did Jill Biden do that was so shocking that the mere threat of it causes Lady Macbethesque sleepwalks for Biden, for example? From what I understand, nothing. The paranoia for Biden was enough and they're trying to hint at fake news and rumour (I think that's what they were getting at anyway?)
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Post by anthony on Apr 5, 2022 8:21:40 GMT
what did Jill Biden do that was so shocking that the mere threat of it causes Lady Macbethesque sleepwalks for Biden, for example? From what I understand, nothing. The paranoia for Biden was enough and they're trying to hint at fake news and rumour (I think that's what they were getting at anyway?) Perhaps. Guess I just assumed that the Shakespeare references would be deeper than that. Lady M's sleepwalking is a symptom of her guilt, so assumed it would have been deeper, but oh well.
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Post by jr on Apr 7, 2022 21:49:18 GMT
Terrible play. I did not like the play, direction (very slow despite movement and noise) or acting. Walked out afer the first act. I didn't leave earlier because I had to make people stand up and would disturb them.
Predictable, unfunny and preachy. Have a ticket to see Scandaltown, hope that one is better...
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Post by showgirl on Apr 8, 2022 4:26:27 GMT
Sorry to hear that, jr, and disappointing as I was considering seeing both this and Scandaltown, but waiting for the reviews. I'm keener on the sound of Scandaltown but have never been a huge fan of Mike Bartlett and thought Love, Love, Love, which everyone else raved about as usual, over-rated and I couldn't sit through the whole of Charles III. Let's hope Scandaltown turns out to be better.
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Post by theoracle on Apr 8, 2022 7:33:18 GMT
Well, that was a pretty surreal evening. As other have said, Bertie Cavell’s transformation into The Donald is pretty uncanny and it’s quite unnerving watching the way he moves across the stage. More unsettling however are probably the scenes featuring the notorious Qanons - the movement direction heightening the demonic essence of the movement. I’m not sure how I feel about Mike Bartlett’s writing though still - he has great ideas but the way he infuses Shakespeare and takes pop culture references into his work, always feels more textbook than a moment of genius. Nevertheless, it was absolutely brilliant to be back at the Old Vic, having not visited since Endgame pre-pandemic. The auditorium was fully charged by electric performances from the cast, expertly directed by Rupert Goold. It’s a pinch of salt sort of show I would say - there are deeply engaging moments where you’re locked in suspense or laughing at the comic elements but it also slows and takes some time to pick back up again in parts. It’ll be interesting to see how history continues to unfold and how prophetical this show is too.
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 9, 2022 14:15:49 GMT
This review better than I was expecting (apart from the Telegraph but Cavendish doesn't seem to like anything these days) - it definitely seems to have moved on a lot from the early preview I saw.
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Post by peggs on Apr 9, 2022 21:22:01 GMT
Quite an odd mix of an evening, funny, deeply unsettling both in Bertie Carvel's portrayal (I did a double take as didn't immediately realise it was even him) and in the possible future that might still await us, a wander via various Shakespeare plays, a few odd moments when I rather zoned out.
There are times when Bertie Carvel is so good it rather shows up how other people are just pretending to be real life people, it was until the interval and talking to a neighbour that I discovered who the president I couldn't identify was. The set is a bit odd, in that it mostly seemly unnecessary to have the revolve and therefore be so high, I was row J and really wouldn't have wanted to be any closer. The movement, soundscapes, cross over from the real and possible is all cleverly done. It's like some surreal experiment when you know you're sat in a theatre and yet at times you're not entirely sure it's all make believe and what is happening on stage may have bigger implications than just on a few hours of your time.
So good and strange. I saw still in previews so from the sounds of reviews things might have changed so will go read a few and see if I can gauge what.
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Post by lonlad on Apr 10, 2022 8:25:54 GMT
That Telegraph review is spot on: Bartlett has become such a hack it's almost embarrassing. This latest effort is incredibly lazy, poorly structured, and totally out of touch with the zeitgeist which has been assuming for some time now that neither Trump nor Harris will be the next set of presidential nominees, which looks a lot more likely to be some Trumpster like de Santis up against god knows who, but not Harris who has eroded much of the good will that came with her VP appointment. Sad but true.
Anyway all that aside, just in stagecraft terms, it's a lousy play except for Carvel, who is amazing, truly.
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Post by sfsusan on Apr 11, 2022 22:05:16 GMT
I can't figure out what the play is trying to do. It's not over-the-top enough to be satire* but not straightforward enough to be commentary. Bertie Carvel was amazing. The Ivanka character was odd... in the first act, she'd suddenly smile at inappropriate times, but that never seemed to lead anywhere in terms of her character. (I did get a kick out of the fact that the actress took the curtain call in slippers instead of the needle-heeled 6-inch stilettos she wore throughout the play.) I was expecting some {Spoiler - click to view} major twist/palace coup (a la William and Kate in King Charles III) and there are hints of something similar, but the hints are ambiguous and the action takes place off-stage, so it doesn't have the same impact. But I expected most of that from the comments and reviews. What I didn't expect was how painfully loud the sound was. Myself and the people on either side stuffed our fingers in our ears for the worst of it. And one of them turned to me later and said she was deaf, had taken out her hearing aids and it was STILL too loud! There are some unexpected, sudden loud noises, but most of it was just sound effects building to the end of a scene. *As said in a post above, Trump already is a caricature so you'd have to create something completely unhinged.
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Post by orchidman on Apr 11, 2022 22:25:06 GMT
totally out of touch with the zeitgeist which has been assuming for some time now that neither Trump nor Harris will be the next set of presidential nominees, which looks a lot more likely to be some Trumpster like de Santis up against god knows who, but not Harris who has eroded much of the good will that came with her VP appointment. Not true, Trump is the clear 11/8 betting favourite to be the Republican nominee and his odds have shortened over the past 18 months, DeSantis is 5/1 second favourite. Harris has indeed weakened yet still second favourite for the Dems with Biden the favourite. But I do think I'm safe to assume you are right that the play is mediocre given it's written by Mike Bartlett.
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Post by lonlad on Apr 12, 2022 0:04:36 GMT
>> Not true, Trump is the clear 11/8 betting favourite to be the Republican nominee
Not a chance and the idea of Ivanka against Kamala is BEYOND lunacy. Or good theatre. Sorry, Mike, but there we have it.
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Post by Jan on Apr 12, 2022 14:45:19 GMT
That Telegraph review is spot on: Bartlett has become such a hack it's almost embarrassing. Such is his fame now that I imagine directors don’t challenge him in the way they do for other writers, and Rupert Goold in particular may be too close to him. For example Bartlett’s version of Vassa that Goold programmed at the Almeida was offensively bad, I can guarantee it wouldn’t have made it onto any London stage at all if it had been submitted anonymously. It happens - Nicolas Hytner grew rather over-indulgent of Alan Bennett over time for example.
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Post by Jan on Apr 13, 2022 15:57:59 GMT
I have to say I'm in two minds about this piece, although Bertie Carvel is a marvel in it, I have to agree with a few others here about the script. Also I think I agree with a couple of the reviews and think it's a bit too soon. Like someone doing a play about covid. Sir David Hare gave us a Covid play some time ago, the need to be first outweighs being timely.
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Post by joem on Apr 16, 2022 23:44:22 GMT
Entertaining to start off with then sort of fizzles down as the idea loses steam. As a piece of future history it is pretty preposterous leaving the assumption that it's a comedy? But despite the best efforts of the audience to laugh whenever they recognise something or someone, and despite the marvellous Trump impersonation, this isn't a comedy, it's trying to make some deep political point which escapes everyone, including possibly Bartlett himself.
A revue is not a drama, and that is what this play smacks of - late-night laughs cheaply won by putting real-life figures in comic scenes and getting the audience to laugh because they are aware they should be laughing.
Ditto the writing, the blank verse threatens to soar at times but keeps clunking back to earth aided by lines of the "Oh yeah?" type. Ultra prosaic.
It's not a dud but it's not an aesthetic hit.
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Post by danielwhit on Apr 21, 2022 17:31:43 GMT
I can't help but compare this to King Charles III for all the obvious reasons plus I directed a production of that play so Bartlett's words still now occasionally float around in my brain. The structures are very similar, but then it could be argued this is also true of Shakespeare, and the "lifts" from the Shakespearean canon are littered around in much the same way.
Story wise - it's a version of the future, which is why it needed to be done now. You can only get away with exploring the future of Trump in the run up to the 2024 election, after that (one imagines) he'll be long gone out of the political picture. Chances are this story will play out less true than KC3 has done so far, however it walks the "just about plausible but also pretty incredible" bridge well. The final scene however, felt like something of a cop out to try to tie some ends up. Does it mirror one of the History plays that I'm forgetting?
I don't think this will have a long life - King Charles III felt at the end of plausibility to product when I directed it in 2018 and The 47th is naturally limited by 2024. But future amateur staging potential was realistically not in Bartlett's mind when he sat down to write The 47th.
Very well staged and surely this has to be a candidate for video effect awards (with a special guest appearance yesterday afternoon by a fly who kept flying in the projector beam and on the lens by the seems of it for the final 20 minutes).
I was pleasantly shocked at just how good an impersonation of Trump Carvel was able to achieve. As I heard someone say when I was leaving "it felt weird to be cheering for Trump at the end".
This feels like a reasonable second album, but it doesn't live up to the heights of KC3.
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Post by Mark on Apr 21, 2022 19:30:23 GMT
You can only get away with exploring the future of Trump in the run up to the 2024 election, after that (one imagines) he'll be long gone out of the political picture. I mean, he’s currently bookies favourite to win the 2024 election, so he could be around for a long while yet.
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Post by danielwhit on Apr 22, 2022 21:40:42 GMT
You can only get away with exploring the future of Trump in the run up to the 2024 election, after that (one imagines) he'll be long gone out of the political picture. I mean, he’s currently bookies favourite to win the 2024 election, so he could be around for a long while yet. Fair enough, however everything else in this is clearly rooted as the build up towards the 2024 electoral cycle.
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Post by mkb on Apr 22, 2022 22:46:06 GMT
It's a pity Trump is always afforded the limelight. As with a persistent internet troll, he is best simply ignored. Of course, the principal twist of the "The 47th" is that the title does not refer to Trump, as you were expecting, but to Harris.
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Post by alece10 on Apr 23, 2022 18:11:24 GMT
I'm not a huge play fan but this appealed to me. Have to say I quite enjoyed it although it was not as funny as I thought it would be. Quite dark in places and very wordy. Really had to concentrate. Very well acted and great cast. Bertie Carvel was amazing and I was convinced that it wasn't him and we had an understudy. It wasn't until the interval when I looked at some pictures online of him on the role that I realised it was him. Nice afternoon out.
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Post by sfsusan on May 6, 2022 12:34:25 GMT
Interesting article in the NY Times about the play. It seems we Americans are more freaked out than entertained by the premise. There's a paywall, but you should get a number of free articles each month, so hopefully folks can read the whole thing. "Ranney Mize, 79, a retired neuroscientist visiting from New Orleans, said afterward that he had not laughed as much as the theatergoers around him in the orchestra level. He and his wife “were deeply concerned about the future of American democracy and the threat Trump poses to that institution,” he said. Carvel’s portrayal of Trump was more evil than funny, Mize said." "Rupert Goold, the play’s director, said that when he spoke to audience members during intermissions, Americans found the play more serious and politically urgent than others." www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/theater/the-47th-play-trump-london.html
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Post by theatremiss on May 27, 2022 22:09:13 GMT
I quite enjoyed this, Carvel was superb. Was anyone else in tonight as in act 2 towards the end a phone went off and for a rather long time too. The actress who plays the nurse kept in character and said “are you gonna answer that phone”. Last time I saw that happen was also at the OV when Spaceyberated someone being on their phone when he was playing Clarence Darrow
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Post by jm25 on May 28, 2022 0:43:43 GMT
Saw this earlier in the week. It was alright I guess but felt totally predicated on the spectacle of seeing Carvel as Trump. (To be fair, he's excellent - and I was high up enough that there was no way of telling it wasn't the real deal!) But beyond that the plot felt pretty thin on the ground. Didn't seem to be delving into anything more profoundly horrifying than what we all already lived through for four years. Wasn't convinced by the various attempts to channel Shakespeare either.
Don't regret seeing it but not a personal highlight.
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Post by theatremiss on May 28, 2022 17:38:57 GMT
Saw this earlier in the week. It was alright I guess but felt totally predicated on the spectacle of seeing Carvel as Trump. (To be fair, he's excellent - and I was high up enough that there was no way of telling it wasn't the real deal!) But beyond that the plot felt pretty thin on the ground. Didn't seem to be delving into anything more profoundly horrifying than what we all already lived through for four years. Wasn't convinced by the various attempts to channel Shakespeare either. Don't regret seeing it but not a personal highlight. Oh yes I agree about the Shakespeare reference. Started off clearly King Lear then channelled a few other plays along the way. Also quite annoying with the language. I kept trying to work out if the next line would rhyme or half-rhyme
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Post by Being Alive on May 28, 2022 18:08:32 GMT
Interesting to see it again this afternoon, having seen the 3rd preview back in March.
Bartlett has made some changes to Act 1, which fix a lot of my pacing issues that I had first time round - the removal of the other presidents other than Biden is a good change and means the narrative doesn't stop. Act 2 has some great 'battle scenes' - your Shakespearean comparisons are easily evident (Henry V when they're decided whether to lock him up or not, the Gravedigger in Hamlet with the Nurse at the end) and Carvel and Tunie have both relaxed into their roles and are very good.
We did have a cover for Ivanka in place of Lydia Wilson, and whilst I didn't think much of Wilson in previews, I thought her cover was dreadful. She seemed to have no idea how to play her, or even who she was, so she just smiled for two and a half hours, and that got incredibly tiresome when she didn't have an ounce of menace about her - the 'reveal' at the end was very dull.
Something for me doesn't gel though. The ingredients are all there: the script is witty, the performances are strong (by and large), it's topical, it's a bit dystopian, but it just doesn't come together for me as a good play overall. I don't even know what I want to change, I just can't get excited about it, and give it more than 3 stars.
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Post by lonlad on May 28, 2022 23:05:08 GMT
Interesting that Wilson missed the final matinee given that the play closed tonight. What a shame for her - and you.
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Post by thistimetomorrow on May 28, 2022 23:29:42 GMT
Interesting that Wilson missed the final matinee given that the play closed tonight. She's been off since Monday
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