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Post by Jan on Dec 31, 2021 10:16:10 GMT
Is Ralph Fiennes (59) the last great Shakespearean actor there will ever be ? By that I mean an actor committed to performing Shakespeare on stage and who through their career picks off most of the great roles. Old Rigsby could easily survive doing no stage work at all but has always fitted in Shakespeare roles, even ones like Antony that few other great actors played.
He’s a bit younger than Simon Russell Beale and Mark Rylance. There are lots in the older generation: Jacobi, McKellen, Pennington, Greg Hicks etc. But can you think of anyone younger than Fiennes who has even played 2-3 of the great roles ? Jonathan Slinger (49) I suppose but he hasn’t done anything since Michael Boyd left the RSC.
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 31, 2021 10:33:36 GMT
Adrian Lester? Rory Kinnear?
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Post by profquatermass on Dec 31, 2021 10:57:52 GMT
I doubt Benedict Cumberbatch or Ben Whishaw or David Tennant or have played their last Shakespearean roles and none of them are exactly short of work.
Jessie Buckley has done a fair amount of Shakespeare in a short career - it will be interesting to see what she does next. I can definitely see her as Beatrice
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 13:53:11 GMT
With the top actors getting so many offers on screen and TV as well as stage then fully committing to Shakespeare roles or actively playing them can get harder. A big name usually needs some sort of grounding before unleashing his Hamlet for example. The likes of David Tennant probably gets it right with his new star RSC runs following up when he was a company lead in the 1990's and early 2000's.
Touring Shakespeare plays need to be done very carefully and with the right cast and Ralph Fiennes is one of the few who can do that. There are still the wonderful older Shakespeare male roles for a lot of the actors mentioned above to play. Ralph Fiennes could play Lear whenever he wants from an age point of view and I could see DT doing it in due course for example.
Rory Kinnear's Falstaff would be a natural fit too.
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Post by Jan on Dec 31, 2021 14:53:09 GMT
Adrian Lester? Rory Kinnear? Adrian Lester is 53 and has done very little Shakespeare, one role a decade. Rory Kinnear is a good shout though. |
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Post by Marwood on Dec 31, 2021 15:32:38 GMT
Has Ralph Fiennes done any Shakespeare recently ? I know he directed the movie of Coriolanus (I went to the NT q&a for it) but that was ten years ago and don’t recalling him going near the Bard since?
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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 31, 2021 15:40:08 GMT
Has Ralph Fiennes done any Shakespeare recently ? I know he directed the movie of Coriolanus (I went to the NT q&a for it) but that was ten years ago and don’t recalling him going near the Bard since? He did Antony and Cleopatra at the National in 2018 and Richard III at the Almeida in 2016 |
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Post by couldileaveyou on Dec 31, 2021 15:42:47 GMT
Adrian Lester? Rory Kinnear? Adrian Lester is 53 and has done very little Shakespeare, one role a decade. Rory Kinnear is a good shout though. I thought AL had done more Shakespeare, but tbh playing Rosalind, Hamlet, Othello & Henry V in major productions is still pretty impressive |
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Post by Jan on Dec 31, 2021 16:41:46 GMT
Adrian Lester is 53 and has done very little Shakespeare, one role a decade. Rory Kinnear is a good shout though. I thought AL had done more Shakespeare, but tbh playing Rosalind, Hamlet, Othello & Henry V in major productions is still pretty impressive I saw all those except Hamlet I think. Not really impressive if you compare him to the number of roles played by Fiennes, Simon R-B and Rylance. I mean he's a very good actor but not primarily a Shakespearean actor I'd say. |
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Post by teamyali on Dec 31, 2021 16:59:45 GMT
On the other hand, who do you think are the actors you would like to do more Shakespeare?
I’d love to see Ben Daniels get more leading stage roles. His strongest suit has been the modern American classics (Arthur Miller, Larry Kramer) so far but a staging of King Lear or Titus Andronicus with him would be great. (Plus points if it’s helmed by Ivo van Hove or Sam Mendes)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 17:08:32 GMT
With so much on offer these days you don't get so many actors working their way up at say the RSC from sword/spear carrier to ensemble to understudy to supporting role to main role like you had years ago. There are some actors who do a lot at the RSC but they are more character actors rather than playing regular leading roles. Jonathan Slinger was probably the last exception.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Dec 31, 2021 17:14:38 GMT
The RSC is not attracting names these days. People don't want to work there it would seem.
The National has not done well with Shakespeare under Rufus
The Globe has had troubles enough coping with the changes in AD
So where is an actor seeking to build a portfolio of Shakespeare roles supposed to do it?
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 31, 2021 17:16:28 GMT
Tom Hiddlestone recently did Coriolanus at the Donmar and Hamlet at RADA.
One of the best Hamlets ever and that was done on film, that was because of Kenneth Brannagh played the role absolutely sublimely, I could watch that again and again, but I think I already have.
Shakespeare will always attract great actors and new great actors will always come through playing Shakespeare role. I think of Shakespeare as the 100 metres final in the Olympics, it is the absolute gold standard in acting, you are never a great actor until you have grappled will Shakespeare and done it very well, especially on stage and the meaty roles such as; Hamlet, Richard III, Othello & Lago. which is gold plus in acting and a feat of memory remembering all those lines.
Conversely a great 'film' actor who has won 3 Oscars, on stage though it is a different matter, when Daniel played Hamlet a the National, he didn't understand how to use the stage, the stage ate him up and spat him out, it became a cold and dark place for him.
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Post by Jan on Dec 31, 2021 18:44:02 GMT
Tom Hiddlestone recently did Coriolanus at the Donmar and Hamlet at RADA. One of the best Hamlets ever and that was done on film, that was because of Kenneth Brannagh played the role absolutely sublimely, I could watch that again and again, but I think I already have. Shakespeare will always attract great actors and new great actors will always come through playing Shakespeare role. I think of Shakespeare as the 100 metres final in the Olympics, it is the absolute gold standard in acting, you are never a great actor until you have grappled will Shakespeare and done it very well, especially on stage and the meaty roles such as; Hamlet, Richard III, Othello & Lago. which is gold plus in acting and a feat of memory remembering all those lines. Conversely a great 'film' actor who has won 3 Oscars, on stage though it is a different matter, when Daniel played Hamlet a the National, he didn't understand how to use the stage, the stage ate him up and spat him out, it became a cold and dark place for him. I’d forgotten Branagh but he’s 61. Daniel Day Lewis trained as a stage actor and was a great stage actor, I saw him as Hamlet and Romeo. In fact he’s made very very few films either and those were spaced out with years between them, so he’s not a typical film actor either. |
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Post by cavocado on Dec 31, 2021 18:58:09 GMT
On the other hand, who do you think are the actors you would like to do more Shakespeare? I’d love to see Ben Daniels get more leading stage roles. His strongest suit has been the modern American classics (Arthur Miller, Larry Kramer) so far but a staging of King Lear or Titus Andronicus with him would be great. (Plus points if it’s helmed by Ivo van Hove or Sam Mendes) I agree about Ben Daniels, and I'd also like to see Patsy Ferran playing the big Shakespearean female roles. |
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Post by Jan on Dec 31, 2021 18:58:33 GMT
The RSC is not attracting names these days. People don't want to work there it would seem. That may be the case. Or maybe the RSC are simply not inviting names to join them. Partly it comes from abandoning an ensemble approach and just staging stand-alone productions. I wonder how many of the forthcoming Much Ado cast will ever work at the RSC again ? My guess would be one or two at most, maybe even none. |
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Post by Jan on Dec 31, 2021 19:00:21 GMT
On the other hand, who do you think are the actors you would like to do more Shakespeare? I’d love to see Ben Daniels get more leading stage roles. His strongest suit has been the modern American classics (Arthur Miller, Larry Kramer) so far but a staging of King Lear or Titus Andronicus with him would be great. (Plus points if it’s helmed by Ivo van Hove or Sam Mendes) I agree about Ben Daniels, and I'd also like to see Patsy Ferran playing the big Shakespearean female roles. Bertie Carvel. I mean the RSC had him for Matilda and then apparently offered him nothing and he turned up at NT instead. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Dec 31, 2021 19:01:57 GMT
Alex Waldmann and Pippa Nixon should have been better nurtured by the RSC. Both have a real facility for Shakespeare but have moved away from the Bard of late.
They would be a great pairing for Much Ado and Macbeth
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Post by Jan on Dec 31, 2021 19:05:26 GMT
Alex Waldmann and Pippa Nixon should have been better nurtured by the RSC. Both have a real facility for Shakespeare but have moved away from the Bard of late. They would be a great pairing for Much Ado and Macbeth They were Boyd actors weren’t they ? Like Slinger. Purged by Doran. Waldman was in the Wars of the Roses revival more recently at Kingston as far as I remember. I’d like Michael Sheen to do some more Shakespeare. Unlikely though. |
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Post by sweets7 on Jan 1, 2022 1:29:51 GMT
Alex Waldmann and Pippa Nixon should have been better nurtured by the RSC. Both have a real facility for Shakespeare but have moved away from the Bard of late. They would be a great pairing for Much Ado and Macbeth I agree whole heartedly with this. Amazing together. I always hoped (hope) they do these roles. They have both individually done a bit of Shakespeare since. When I saw Ronan and McCardle in Macbeth I thought abojt the two of them...ai felt the lerformsnce would have been similar. Hopefully in the Future we will see them again on stage together. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 1, 2022 11:47:07 GMT
Andrew Scott?
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Post by talkingheads on Jan 2, 2022 0:13:10 GMT
I would also say Cush Jumbo, her Hamlet was fantastic.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 2, 2022 1:28:53 GMT
Cush Jumbo was very good, she delivered the monologues fantastically.
When I saw Romeo and Juliet in Regent’s Park last summer, there was an actress called Isabel Adomakoh Young who played The titular character as Juliet and she was singularly fantastic.
Keeping with the female theme, seeing Twelfth Night at the National and I do know the part is slight, but the role deliver one of Shakespeare’s greatest and funniest monologue and that in this case was Malvolia played brilliantly by Tasman Greig.
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Post by shambles on Jan 2, 2022 2:13:28 GMT
Michael Grandage stepping away to do Frozen and make films also reduced the overall Shakespeare productions, as well as those that had some manner of well-known star.
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Post by frappuccino on Jan 2, 2022 4:49:22 GMT
Alan Rickman? The Harry Potter costume department head said that the way he managed to swish Snape's costume's cloak in the exact same way was Shakespearan.
“I will always remember, we were shooting in a bathroom and [Malfoy] is on the floor,” Temime continued, presumably referring to when Malfoy and Harry faced off in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. “Then, Alan runs with the cape on top of his costume. He crawls on the floor and he leans next to the shape on the ground. He did that 20 times, and 20 times the cape was exactly, precisely draped on the floor in a perfect position. I think you have to be a Shakespearean actor to do that.”
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Post by peggs on Jan 2, 2022 16:43:23 GMT
I would also say Cush Jumbo, her Hamlet was fantastic. I remember really liking her Mark Antony as well. As someone who spends a fair amount of time at the Globe I have to suggest Michelle Terry, for me she's rather like Simon Russell Beale in that they both make the language seem really normal and lucid and like it's the most natural thing in the world to be talking. I feel there must be more female actors but I can't quite think who. As noted the options for actors having repeat opportunities at Shakespeare is perhaps now lessened so does limit the opportunities for having seen the same person attempt multiple roles. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 2, 2022 19:46:01 GMT
I haven't seen Michelle Terry at the Globe but I wasn't over impressed by her at the RSC in the LLL amd Much Ado season
She was decent as Beatrice/Rosaline but didn't give truly memorable performances that redefine what we should expect from those roles
I haven't been impressed by her choices since taking over the Globe.
So not a top flight Shakespearean for my tastes but I know she has many admirers.
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Post by peggs on Jan 2, 2022 20:25:22 GMT
If we're looking for performances that redefine what we expect from roles will they be by definition few and far between? And I wonder how much you need to have seen of a particular play to make that call? I've seen people play roles and they've done things afresh for me but I'm aware that while I've seen what I consider a reasonable amount of Shakespeare it's no where near what some people have seen on here and only over a relatively short period of time. So what I consider new may well have been done before sort of thing. Do you have any examples oxfordsimon that you'd consider redefining from say the last 15 years that I might have seen? We'll have to agree to disagree regarding Michelle Terry. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 2, 2022 21:35:39 GMT
Susannah Fielding in the Las Vegas Merchant completely reinvented Portia for me. She made the play into the Tragedy of Portia rather than the Shylock play.
Pippa Nixon in King John did something remarkable with the Bastard (though I know there are some here who hated that production)
I think creating a truly memorable interpretation is central to being a great Shakespearean.
Would Tony Sher have made each an impact if he hadn't reimagined Richard III in such a way as to make people forget about Olivier?
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Post by peggs on Jan 2, 2022 21:55:27 GMT
Missed that merchant and rather kicked myself afterwards and didn't see the king john either sadly (is this the one with the infamous balloons?
Memorable in the sense of across a period of time, with critics and directors and audiences?
I take your point but it's rather like when I read anything and someone references some great definitive actor/performance that I have no experience of. It means little as I don't have them to forget in the first place.
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