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Post by apubleed on Jun 7, 2018 19:12:47 GMT
I've recently moved here and I'm still wrapping my head around how refunds work for missing stars. I'm seeing Orlando Bloom in Killer Joe soon and, while it is unlikely he will be out, it is clear from the marketing of the show they are selling "Orlando Bloom" in Killer Joe - not just the play. In New York the producers obviously realise they can't have their cake and eat it - so will offer a refund if they can't deliver on their marketing. Is that the same here or have things changed?
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Post by david on Jun 7, 2018 19:20:13 GMT
Unlike in NY, if a star name is absent, there are no refunds. It’s part of the terms and conditions of the ticket sale. They do say they can’t guarantee any particular artist at a performance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 19:33:36 GMT
Indeed. Unlike NY the mantra is very much 'you pay for the show not the star'
Of course in some star cases an understudy is a blessing. Hell an understudy is quite often a blessing anyway (no dig at Mr Bloom there at all I love him)
Speaking of NY understudies, Nathan Lane's understudy went on in Angels the other day. I would have sold a kidney to see it with him doing it. And brave man as well, in front of a baying NY audience.
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Post by kimbahorel on Jun 7, 2018 20:12:22 GMT
The terms and conditions of the ticket is that it doesn't guarantee any cast member on stage. However if it was a sold out show most do returns but supply and demand something like Hamilton the return tickets would sell. But a show that had a famous lead and was off might not get people wanting to buy return tickets.
I just remember when Martin Freeman did Richard III at Trafalger studios. He was injured for most of a week. And I went to see the U/S at a pretty much sold out show because I knew I get a ticket. Going into the box office to have a clearly 'tired of having to explain returns to everyone' staff member try and explain returns to me but I wanted to buy a seat. I think it was a case of if someone wanted to buy they would take the return and refund. So a lot of people where forced in to seeing the fantasic Philip Cumbus as Richard III as I found out before the show at the interval and from the very annoyed usher who snapped at me because I was trying to be nice to her.
I am not sure what theatre and marketing was like years and years ago but I assume a star in a show has always been a thing at some point. But I wonder the way star marketing is now at least, how long before it starts to crumble. Shows when the star is unwell or off if people don't turn up for seats they bought I assume the prodution still gets the money. I don't see anything that is going to get productions giving refunds in that case. Then I wonder how long it will be before shows with big names attached ebb in sales because fans might be at a show their fave is not there for.
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Post by profquatermass on Jun 7, 2018 21:02:41 GMT
Woman on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown was very heavily marketed around Tamsin Greig. Whose attendance was patchy... No refunds. I went on a day when I think there were four understudies and some irate customers but they certainly didn't get their money back
Re Nathan Lane - didn't he have a slipped disc during The Producers? I assume he missed some shows at least
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Post by ellie1981 on Jun 7, 2018 21:08:23 GMT
We got a call about Christian Slater in Glengarry Glen Ross about a week earlier as he was due to be off (I think as he was attending the Golden Globes), offering us a refund or an exchange for another date.
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Post by poster J on Jun 8, 2018 9:47:46 GMT
Didn't they end up doing ticket swaps when Glenn Close was out of Sunset Boulevard at the Coliseum? The box office were amazed and delighted that I knew Close was off but actually wanted to buy a ticket to see Ria Jones!
I hate the whole concept of giving a refund if the "star" is off, unless it's a one-man/woman show. It's an insult to the rest of the cast and the crew. And I say that as someone who has missed stars in shows a few times due to holidays/illness, so I know it can be frustrating. The sense of entitlement of some audience members really angers me though.
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Post by david on Jun 8, 2018 10:05:46 GMT
I hate the whole concept of giving a refund if the "star" is off, unless it's a one-man/woman show. It's an insult to the rest of the cast and the crew. And I say that as someone who has missed stars in shows a few times due to holidays/illness, so I know it can be frustrating. The sense of entitlement of some audience members really angers me though. I agree with this. At the end of the day as a theatre goer, you are paying to watch the SHOW and if the star or leads happen to be there then great, but sometimes life gets in the way meaning that they can’t appear for whatever reason. Does this mean the show is poorer for their absence? No, sometimes the understudy can be just as good or even better than the absent cast member. A few years ago, I booked to watch Whoopi Goldberg in Sister Act at the Palladium. I got an e mail just before I was travelling down to London to say that due to a family illness she had to go back home and an understudy would be taking over. When I got into the auditorium, it was obvious that by the large number of empty seats around me thst people had not bothered to show up because she wasn’t there. In fact, the understudy was making her debut I think and actually was really good in the role. Did it lessen my enjoyment of the show? No. For me, only if the show gets cancelled (such as an on stage technical issue) then refunds should be given, not for having absent cast members. |
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Post by harrie on Jun 8, 2018 10:17:40 GMT
When I saw Romeo and Juliet at the Garrick I remember feeling sorry for the usher who repeated to every one as he was checking their tickets ‘Just so you’re aware, Richard Madden isn’t performing this evening’. He must have been saying it in his sleep!
I completely agree that you book to see the production and not a specific performer, although I do understand the natural disappointment if you’ve been eager to see someone in particular.
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Post by ellie1981 on Jun 8, 2018 10:27:25 GMT
A couple of friends once decided not to go to This Is Our Youth in 2002 as Matt Damon was off and they pretty much just wanted to see a film star. Years later they realised that Jake Gyllenhaal was his understudy.
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Post by tonyloco on Jun 8, 2018 10:34:16 GMT
Nobody seems to have mentioned the scenario of a regular theatregoer who has already seen the show dozens of times and has booked because a particular star has taken over one of the main roles. This happened to me when Peter Duncan took over Billy Flynn in Chicago at the Cambridge. As I had already seen the show many times at the Adelphi and at the Cambridge with quite a few different stars in all the roles I was annoyed when I arrived at the theatre to find Duncan was off and I demanded my money back. I was told by the Box Office that I had booked to see 'Chicago' so I pointed to a leaflet just a few feet away from the box office window that said: "Come and see Peter Duncan in Chicago!" I was then advised to take up the matter with the producers which I did by correspondence – and I got my money back although it took several days!
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Post by lynette on Jun 8, 2018 11:59:54 GMT
Years ago I got a refund for a no show Maggie Smith, very unusual. No questions asked, the box office more or less held out the refund as I walked towards it.
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Post by bellboard27 on Jun 8, 2018 12:12:13 GMT
When we went to see Cabaret at the Savoy and Will Young was ill, I'm sure the box office were handing out refunds or replacements as there were a lot of disgruntled customers. We just went for the show, so didn't mind a bit of extra space in the theatre!
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Post by david on Jun 8, 2018 12:15:19 GMT
I wonder what would have happened with Martine M and her no shows at My Fair Lady at Dury Lane?
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Post by christya on Jun 8, 2018 13:17:28 GMT
I'd imagine the refund would have been if you turned up and had to actually watch her.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 8, 2018 14:54:50 GMT
Oh come now, the people who did get to see her said she was very good. It's just that she wasn't on most of the time!
Let's not re-write history, folks.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jun 8, 2018 15:53:05 GMT
Some productions are advertised almost exclusively around their stars, it seems fair to offer a refund when they are missing.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 8, 2018 16:15:59 GMT
I wonder what would have happened with Martine M and her no shows at My Fair Lady at Dury Lane? My Indisposed Lady Used to happen 6 times a week, with her alternate on for the other 2 performances. |
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Post by profquatermass on Jun 8, 2018 17:30:40 GMT
A couple of friends once decided not to go to This Is Our Youth in 2002 as Matt Damon was off and they pretty much just wanted to see a film star. Years later they realised that Jake Gyllenhaal was his understudy. Was he? He'd already done Donnie Darko at the this point and was the take-over for Damon. He even won some sort of best newcomer award for it. Did he really understudy? A couple of famous understudies - Jeremy Northam for Daniel Day-Lewis when he had a breakdown doing Hamlet. And Shirley Maclaine was standing in for Carole Haney in The Pajama Game when Hitchcock was in the audience and decided to cast her as the lead in his next film |
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Post by apubleed on Jun 8, 2018 17:42:46 GMT
I hate the whole concept of giving a refund if the "star" is off, unless it's a one-man/woman show. It's an insult to the rest of the cast and the crew. And I say that as someone who has missed stars in shows a few times due to holidays/illness, so I know it can be frustrating. The sense of entitlement of some audience members really angers me though. I agree with this. At the end of the day as a theatre goer, you are paying to watch the SHOW and if the star or leads happen to be there then great, but sometimes life gets in the way meaning that they can’t appear for whatever reason. Does this mean the show is poorer for their absence? No, sometimes the understudy can be just as good or even better than the absent cast member. A few years ago, I booked to watch Whoopi Goldberg in Sister Act at the Palladium. I got an e mail just before I was travelling down to London to say that due to a family illness she had to go back home and an understudy would be taking over. When I got into the auditorium, it was obvious that by the large number of empty seats around me thst people had not bothered to show up because she wasn’t there. In fact, the understudy was making her debut I think and actually was really good in the role. Did it lessen my enjoyment of the show? No. For me, only if the show gets cancelled (such as an on stage technical issue) then refunds should be given, not for having absent cast members. I always find this reasoning to be an odd kind of Stockholm Syndrome - I mean to be fair I guess sometimes you are paying to watch the show but sometimes the show and especially *pricing* for the show clearly reflects you are paying for a star. If you honestly believe there is nothing ethically wrong with a producer marketing BETTE MIDLER in HELLO, DOLLY - accepting up to $1,000 USD for a premium ticket and then not taking a refund or exchange should Bette Midler not appear, then I would be shocked. This is a completely different situation than say Wicked though - where (at least now) you really are just paying to see the show. The producers aren't making a big deal about who is in the show or not. Of course, when Bette Midler did miss her one show the Producers did the right thing and gave refunds. It is them - not the audience - who should be accountable should they not be able to deliver on their marketing. If the West End hasn't already caught up to this, I hope they do soon. It's just a pure scam otherwise. It sounds like they have though, albeit inconsistently (I remember a big deal being made out of Glenn Close missing performances at ENO). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 18:36:14 GMT
I think it is very much 'show dependent' on how much one might (theoretically) be entitled to a refund especially if more than one 'famous person' is in it.
Obviously the Hello Dolly one is HEAVILY dependent on Bette. As was something like Hugh Jackman in The Boy From Oz (where his understudy famously never got a crack at the sequins). In those cases, I'd say there's argument.
But what of say the Pinter collection here? Or to go back to Nathan Lane, who do we say is the biggest star* in that one? I know Broadway goes by 'names above the title' but I'd say there's at least a three-way tie for names there.
Personally, while I would have been sad to miss, say Groban in Great Comet, I still argue on the side of 'I came to see a show' personally though.
*I mean obviously Susan Brown is the answer you're looking for there.
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Post by profquatermass on Jun 8, 2018 18:52:46 GMT
Except for possibly close relatives of the other cast members, I doubt there was anyone who saw Madame De Sade, or whatever it was called, in the Donmar/WE season for any reason other than the presence of Judi Dench in the cast. And she missed loads of performances. However, even with her, it still would have been dreadful
Re Martine in My Fair Lady - she won an Olivier. It's complete nonsense to suggest she wasn't any good.
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Post by viserys on Jun 8, 2018 18:58:15 GMT
This ^ brings up another thought: Revivals tend to be more marketed around a star, as the show itself has been around several times... why see another "Dolly" or another "Hamlet" if not because you're curious to see how this particular performer tackles the part?
With new shows like Comet, while they might also rely on star names to bring in the punters, I think it's easier to say "Hey this is a brand new show worth seeing, no matter who's playing the part" If I had booked for Comet to see Groban, I had been very disappointed if he had been out that night, but would still have been curious just to see the show itself.
But I had only booked Sunset Blvd at the Coliseum to finally see Glenn Close in the part. I had seen the show several times before and wouldn't have booked it "just because".
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Post by lou105 on Jun 8, 2018 19:01:45 GMT
David Tennant's dodgy back was another famous case but the RSC have understudies for every spear carrier, so I imagine they just smiled and told people Ed Bennett was ready to go..I was at Les Mis when Alfie Boe was lodging with Matt Lucas and they both got ill together. The atmosphere in the foyer was quite nasty with people queueing up to berate the staff so I just decided to enjoy the show! I was also at Frankenstein when B Cumberbatch got a stomach bug. Their understudy policy was that whichever of the regulars was present would go on as The Creature, with an understudy available as Victor. Id already seen JLM as Creature so that was the one and only time I've bailed out, but there was an eager returns queue.
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Post by sf on Jun 8, 2018 19:17:57 GMT
When we went to see Cabaret at the Savoy and Will Young was ill, I'm sure the box office were handing out refunds or replacements as there were a lot of disgruntled customers. We just went for the show, so didn't mind a bit of extra space in the theatre!
I saw him. You were very lucky.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 8, 2018 19:48:02 GMT
Sometimes refunds or change of date does happen in the West End, especially when the show is marketed for the person.
When I walked past the Adelphi when it had Joseph, Lee Mead was out and this production was all about Lee Mead, the producers were happy to give a refund or reschedule. Which was the correct thing to do.
Don’t know what has happened to Lee Mead? A genuine smashing guy.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 8, 2018 19:51:15 GMT
On tours they build in pauses in the schedule, so all actors and stage staff can take their leave. So you have more chances of seeing the people advertised.
This should happen in London too, shows go dark for a week or two, instead of pot luck with who you are going to see. Than for example turn up at the theatre and check the board to see who’s out.
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Post by Tibidabo on Jun 8, 2018 20:20:41 GMT
When I walked past the Adelphi when it had Joseph, Lee Mead was out and this production was all about Lee Mead, the producers were happy to give a refund or reschedule. Which was the correct thing to do. Don’t know what has happened to Lee Mead? A genuine smashing guy. I once battled through rail replacement hell to see Lee Mead in Joseph, only to arrive to get the understudy. There was definitely no refund or rescheduling. Nothing's happened to him.😉 He's worked consistently in theatre and TV for the past 10 years, currently playing a nurse in Holby City after moving across from Casualty. He also performs concerts around the country and on those celeb cruises that took up a whole other thread a while back. Personally I think he's at his best in musical theatre and I can't bring myself to watch Holby, even though I like him. |
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 8, 2018 20:23:33 GMT
On tours they build in pauses in the schedule, so all actors and stage staff can take their leave. So you have more chances of seeing the people advertised. This should happen in London too, Tours can do it because they're short. That doesn't work for open-ended runs. How would you feel if your employer told you that you had to take all your holidays on specific dates, with no absences at other times permitted for any reason? |
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Post by kimbahorel on Jun 8, 2018 20:57:27 GMT
For curiousity how many people here believe that going to a show you go to the show and not to see actors in the show? And actors I don't mean just the very famous leads - I mean any of the cast.
All the people I have known and met from going theatre have all gone to see actors in shows. I have been to see shows - just to see the show then gone back because I liked actors performances then gone to see them in the next show they did. There are some shows I probably wouldn't have gone to if an actor I liked hadn't have been in it.
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