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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 6, 2018 11:45:42 GMT
Retaining a well-respected identity does not 'fossilise' anything. It honours and celebrates that history and takes it onwards into a new era.
This is just the theatre establishment closing ranks around something that doesn't make a lot of sense.
It is creating the need for more effort and more work to build a new brand rather than using the existing one as a springboard to the future. It does feel like change for the sake of it.
New building - great. New name - pointless and possibly damaging.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 12:45:56 GMT
If you look at other theatre renovations it's not really that long. Even without an auditorium full refit the Sherman here in Cardiff went way over time (and budget but that's another story) with theirs. And did nothing so charitable as donate any of it anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 19:16:15 GMT
I wonder what people would think/say if VF decided to change the Royal Court’s name.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 19:18:33 GMT
I think a lot more people would be up in arms if it was the Royal Court that was getting a name change.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 19:25:18 GMT
And others.... "...a letter to The Stage signed by artists including playwrights Richard Bean, Rebecca Lenkiewicz, April de Angelis and Tanika Gupta, states that they stand behind the venue’s “proposition that theatre is not here to fossilise culture, but to invigorate it”. The letter, also signed by director Cooke, Royal Shakespeare Company deputy artistic director Whyman, and Orange Tree Theatre artistic director Paul Miller, states: “We write to congratulate Indhu Rubasingham and everyone at Kiln Theatre – producers, creative learning team, administrators, box office, everyone – on the great achievement of transforming and reopening the building this week.” It adds: “We fully acknowledge the rich and special history of the Tricycle… But we stand with Kiln and its proposition that theatre is not here to fossilise culture but to invigorate it. While honouring the past, it must also reach out to new audiences and artists, who will come to Kiln with fresh perspectives, ideas, energy. Theatre’s mutability is its strength.” The letter is also signed by playwrights Simon Stephens, Roy Williams and Tanika Gupta, and designer Tom Piper." www.thestage.co.uk/news/2018/playwrights-and-arts-leaders-including-dominic-cooke-rally-behind-indhu-rubasingham-in-support-of-kiln-theatre/Rubasingham’s mates have come out to support her, but the Theatre folk should also hear out those in that community who oppose the name change. The old artistic directorship always tried to serve that community. What is the value of theatres like the Trike (oops!) if they don’t listen to their communities?. Did they have a say? Did they help to choose the name?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Sept 6, 2018 19:40:46 GMT
Some people just have too much time on their hands, they should go out and make a real difference to their community rather than choosing this as their hill to die on. Talk about middle class problems.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 13:11:25 GMT
I think a lot more people would be up in arms if it was the Royal Court that was getting a name change. Bearing in mind they added the word "Jerwood" to the auditoria years ago. Given the bad press the Tricycle got before it closed, this name is a new start. There was a protest about Jerwood led by leading playwrights because artists didn’t want the Theatre to be compromised by the hint of private sponsorship but the days when that was a consideration are long gone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 13:36:59 GMT
I believe that continuity is important in some instances. This theatre has historically had a specific constituency: communities who have traditionally been hidden from history and for whom the preservation of that history is not about fossilisation but about recovery and self actualisation. It would make sense if the new name reflected that - for example by naming it the Baldwin Theatre (I know James Baldwin was African American but the great man of letters had a link with the Theatre which I believe staged an important revival of one of his plays for which he visited the Theatre. Or they could have taken the opportunity to inscribe a hidden history onto the cultural landscape by naming it after black actor Ira Aldridge. After all, they produced a play about his life. The new name is neutral (nondescript) ill thought out (kiln conjures unsavoury images given the controversy of which you speak). I am sure the work will be excellent. The protest has nothing to do with the programme. You may think there is nothing in a name but for some naming is a political act. In my opinion Kiln is a cop out.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Sept 7, 2018 17:44:53 GMT
I can understand why changing a theatre name that celebrates a real person might be disliked. The Cottesloe or Albery didn't cause a fuss but the Gielgud, for example, would expect to be there for some time yet.
As soon as you use a name it creates specificity though and Baldwin is as specific culturally as any other and doesn't reflect the greater variety of cultural backgrounds that the theatre has promoted.
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Xanderl
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Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Sept 11, 2018 6:24:16 GMT
Protesters outside the Kiln last night
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Post by Jan on Sept 11, 2018 6:36:47 GMT
Rupert Goold weighed-in to support the theatre saying he got lots of complaints when he re-named "The Oxford Stage Company" as "Headlong" - in that case the reason for the name change seems entirely obvious and justified.
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Post by drmaplewood on Sept 11, 2018 8:29:20 GMT
This is really embarrassing
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Sept 11, 2018 8:35:41 GMT
This is really embarrassing Given that the theatre is known for its work with people of Afro-Caribbean and Asian heritage, it looks really, really embarrassing.
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Post by zahidf on Sept 11, 2018 8:46:51 GMT
I'm not a MASSIVE fan of the new name but those protests are pretty pathetic.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 11, 2018 9:02:36 GMT
They should get Boris Johnson onboard sounds like the kind of campaign that he would love to champion
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 9:04:14 GMT
But it's all so needless. A presumably costly rebrand to a local community theatre with a long established, GOOD national reputation and friendly, playful name that has ended up upsetting part of that local community, and the objection is now being portrayed as racist. Is it? In the current climate, these things now escalate quickly and other elements pile in, people become entrenched in 'sides' and no grey area of rational debate is allowed.
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Post by zahidf on Sept 11, 2018 9:13:04 GMT
But it's all so needless. A presumably costly rebrand to a local community theatre with a long established, GOOD national reputation and friendly, playful name that has ended up upsetting part of that local community, and the objection is now being portrayed as racist. Is it? In the current climate, these things now escalate quickly and other elements pile in, people become entrenched in 'sides' and no grey area of rational debate is allowed. No one is saying it's racist per se. More of a privilege thing IMO. It's only a name. I preferred the tricycle but it's not the end of the world, and the whole thing looks a bit like father Ted's 'down with that sort of thing' . I'm more interested in the plays.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 9:27:48 GMT
It's... *sort* of racist. Or can be read as such even if the intention isn't there. The use of "our" on all those placards brandished by white people with the accusatory "your" aimed at a theatre with an artistic director of Tamil background does paint an unsavoury picture.
That said, I'm reasonably confident the pro-Tricycle faction would have turned out in such a way had the AD been a posh white man. They're EXTREMELY proprietary in Kilburn, it always made me feel very unwelcome (until they introduced assigned seating and I didn't have to spend as much time in the foyer anymore), so if these people decide to take their bats home and not spend any time at the Kiln Theatre, then I don't consider them any real loss to London's theatre fabric.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 9:29:35 GMT
No one is saying it's racist per se. On Twitter this morning that is what is being strongly implied. The our/your banners could be interpreted as a bit iffy but given the stories around the rebranding exercise - apparently done from above without talking to the local community - it could just be local people with a near-40 year attachment to the name being genuinely upset by its loss. I was cheesed off when our local pubs were given new 'jokey' names and a couple of local institutions renamed in honour of a couple of local celebrities with no link to either of them. I didn't demonstrate but the changes still bug me and I still prefer the old names.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 9:29:58 GMT
I am decidedly on the side of the protestors. And all those white people have as much right to protest as anybody else. My objection is that if they had to change the name couldn’ t they khave chosen something more meaningful? Kiln is so nondescript for a theatre that innovated With the tribunal plays etc. For me it just shows a lack of incisive thought.
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Post by Michael on Sept 11, 2018 9:30:43 GMT
Threads merged
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Post by Jan on Sept 11, 2018 9:53:44 GMT
They should get Boris Johnson onboard sounds like the kind of campaign that he would love to champion No it doesn’t. Those local protestors are probably Labour voters anyway, the sort who used to turn up at the Tricycle to hear some judicial report read out loud.
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Xanderl
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Post by Xanderl on Sept 11, 2018 9:55:22 GMT
Looking at the campaign's website (https://ourtricycle.com/) it seems that by "Our" they mean "the community" and "Your" they mean "corporate branding types" so its unfortunate that the look of the protest gives a somewhat different impression. It would appear that the theatre hasn't handled things too well, if the Private Eye story (https://ourtricycle.com/2018/09/02/press-cuttings-about-tricycle-theatre-2/) is accurrate.
Having said that if you then look at the twitter feed of the protester named in the Private Eye story, he has been a little relentless. Sadly things seem to have gone well beyond the point where they can sit down and have a chat to resolve their differences.
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Post by zahidf on Sept 11, 2018 10:00:02 GMT
Looking at the campaign's website (https://ourtricycle.com/) it seems that by "Our" they mean "the community" and "Your" they mean "corporate branding types" so its unfortunate that the look of the protest gives a somewhat different impression. It would appear that the theatre hasn't handled things too well, if the Private Eye story (https://ourtricycle.com/2018/09/02/press-cuttings-about-tricycle-theatre-2/) is accurrate. Having said that if you then look at the twitter feed of the protester named in the Private Eye story, he has been a little relentless. Sadly things seem to have gone well beyond the point where they can sit down and have a chat to resolve their differences. Yeah, that was the impression I got as well.
TBH, I was against the name change at first, but I think the protesting has got a little out of hand. I prefer the tricycle but it is what it is now.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2018 10:02:47 GMT
Just got this email from the Guardian: "A new Guardian Crowd survey is available and we would really appreciate it if you could spare about 6 minutes to take part. The Guardian is launching a new podcast, and we'd like to show you some potential names and get your thoughts."
That's the way to do it.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 11, 2018 10:30:02 GMT
There is no way that the old name will be brought back. There is no way they will bow to pressure.
The protesters should form their own theatre group 'The Real Tricycle' and start putting on plays by the local community, for the local community.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 11:33:45 GMT
I have tried (really tried) to see the point of view of the protesters in this...but failed. Things change, theatre names change. It's really not the end of the world as we know it. And I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt that the 'us' 'them' rhetoric is an unfortunate turn of phrase (and indeed the 'community' v 'corporate' they claim) but it is..unfortunate. Anyway, as oxfordsimon points out, if they're that wedded to the name/theatre, then I presume they'd be more than welcome to set up their own now the company is named something else.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 11, 2018 11:42:33 GMT
I have sympathy as corporate re-branding exercises always seem like an expensive waste of time. Most of the time it feels like a case of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.
BUT, I have to admit the branding people do usually know their stuff, I've seen new brand identities catch on and be very successful that people who remembered the old version turned their noses up at.
And as someone once said, 'a rose by any other name would smell as sweet'. Once you're in the room, watching some great theatre, what the sign over the foyer door says makes very little difference to you. It's certainly not worth protesting about.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 11, 2018 11:56:15 GMT
The theatre has handled this badly - but they won't back down.
There does appear to be little evidence of meaningful community consultation regarding the rebranding and the name seems to have no real connection to the area (other than Kilburn with BUR removed!)
I suspect if the rebranding had resulted in it becoming the Kilburn Theatre, the local reaction would have been far more positive. As it would have taken on a local identity. Kiln just feels a somewhat arbitrary choice.
I can only guess they were trying something along the lines of The Crucible - a place where the heat of creative fire has a transformative effect on raw talent (or something like that)
Oh, I just checked their website
"This transformed Tricycle is renamed Kiln Theatre – a name that echoes Kilburn, the place where we live. It speaks of energy and creativity and inspires a sense of warmth. We are a local theatre with international influence, proudly located in Brent, the most culturally diverse borough in London."
Kiln really doesn't echo Kilburn - that is a stretch too far. It echoes the Potteries where Kilns are part of the landscape.
Kiln doesn't speak of energy, creativity or warmth. Kilns fire at temperatures well beyond warmth.
Also it is rather strange to talk of Kilburn of being the place where 'we live' and then say 'we are a local theatre' 'in Brent'. I know there is a overlap between the naming of the area due to council wards and the like. But it is a confused message.
The theatre bosses have not sold this well at all. There is no easily understandable explanation for the new name. But they won't back down.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 11, 2018 12:03:19 GMT
Kiln doesn't speak of energy, creativity or warmth. Kilns fire at temperatures well beyond warmth. Oh, I think that's a little unfair - of course kilns are connected to creativity! There's any number of creative arts and crafts that involve a kiln, and it's the energy of heat that a kiln uses to produce those arts and crafts. It's not that much of a stretch, as branding exercises go. I mean, I've heard worse. Clearly they should have handled the transition better, involved more locals, etc - but it's the change management they've fallen down on here (as is so often the case), not the branding itself.
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