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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 16:09:02 GMT
Ouch. Not THAT old thank you! In that last article its suggested that we must use the word Queer because it unites us. I don't see any evidence of that in this discussion. Ooops slip of the keyboard! I didn't mean to imply you were the same age, just that HE was having a similar experience.
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Post by sf on Aug 28, 2017 16:13:01 GMT
That's not surprising. Queer theory/queer studies are established academic fields; the term "queer theory" was only coined somewhere around 1990, but a fair amount of important scholarship has since been written under that banner. The Wadham Queer Fest has nothing to do with any academic field. It is just a series of social events with a title designed to attract attention - not something that is part of any official University course. I never said it did. The point is simply that it's hardly surprising to see that particular word in an academic setting.
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Post by poster J on Aug 28, 2017 16:28:05 GMT
The Wadham Queer Fest has nothing to do with any academic field. It is just a series of social events with a title designed to attract attention - not something that is part of any official University course. I never said it did. The point is simply that it's hardly surprising to see that particular word in an academic setting. Exactly. And it's no more an attention-seeking title than any other event in any context. There's unsurprisingly a lot of discussion throughout the college and university (as I presume is also the case at any other university) about which terms, pronouns and identifiers can and should be used/considered acceptable.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 17:24:56 GMT
Gay as a term I don't think anyone would take offence to as the Prides are often referred to as Gay Prides and areas are known as the Gay Clubbing/Nightspots etc in a positive sense.
I'm a straight male, I know people who are gay and lesbian, I wouldn't say they are close friends. Their sexuality is nothing I've ever felt the need to discuss with them and if I was talking to them about what they had done over the weekend, any mention of the partner would be the same as a partner of a hetrosexual person etc.
Back to the term Gay, I think of it as a positive thing. I know that some people may have a rose tinted view of the "Gay Best Friend" who may be there for a woman and will always be ready with a bitchy put down to support her and also the Fabulous slightly over the top gay persona we may associate with certain gay people.
This has been an interesting and open discussion with lots of meaningful contributions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 17:32:38 GMT
Burly Bear when you say things like "Ouch. Not that old thankyou." aren't you being a little insensitive to those of us who are? Age racism is up there with a lot of other things gays have to tolerate. Not that offended because I am quite comfortable with my age but give a thought to those who are offended.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 28, 2017 20:38:43 GMT
On another personal note, I included Queer as a sexual identity category in my Angels in America survey after taking advice from people who both work regularly on such data collection, and are LGBTQ themselves, and the advice was that it's become an expected category to include. (I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong or that there is a right or wrong just general observations) But I think it comes down to if I describe myself as 'a bit Queer' or a friend describes their friends as 'my Queer friends' that's different to someone shouting 'Queer' in the street. BUT it's up to the indivduals if they want to use that description in their everyday life. Yes, exactly, some people self-identify as Queer. Is this a problem? No!
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Post by joem on Aug 28, 2017 20:50:47 GMT
People can call themselves whatever they want, but the constant redefinition of what is acceptable to one group or another and the condemnation of someone who may not be up to the latest fad is Fascism a la 1984.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Aug 28, 2017 21:11:40 GMT
the condemnation of someone who may not be up to the latest fad The term "up to" should be avoided as it stigmatises PWED * * PWED: People With Erectile Dysfunction
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 28, 2017 21:14:01 GMT
Really do you need to use any term?
You don't say, Christopher over there, by the way he is straight? So why would you do the same for a Gay/Lesbian person.
Attitudes move on you look at Fawlty Towers the Germen episode and Major and Basil both used to use the 'N' word, so gather people back then found it hilarious, oddly the BBC don't repeat this anymore, I wonder why? You wouldn't use the same humour now and for very good reason.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 21:22:25 GMT
In complete honesty, taking humour aside, I don't really believe in labels at all. Or sexuality for that manner. I believe we are all human and we can all be attracted to anyone at any time. No one is 100% gay, no one is 100% straight. That's just the truth. Ever had a mancrush/girlcrush? That's even 99% straight then haha.
I'm very easy going on the whole labels thing. Call me whatever you want, I don't care. As long as there is good intentions, I'm not gonna be a dick about it.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 28, 2017 21:26:12 GMT
Really do you need to use any term? You don't say, Christopher over there, by the way he is straight? So why would you do the same for a Gay/Lesbian person. Attitudes move on you look at Fawlty Towers the Germen episode and Major and Basil both used to use the 'N' word, so gather people back then found it hilarious, oddly the BBC don't repeat this anymore, I wonder why? You wouldn't use the same humour now and for very good reason. Yes, we still do need terms as coming out is not a one off event. Assumptions are made, corrections need to be made - your choice of language is absolutely part of you and your journey. The default assumption is very much that 'Christopher over there' is straight. 'Christopher' has the right to be identified in the way that represents who he is. Taking away these terms risks taking away a key element in how people want to be seen by the world. No-one wants to be forced to wear a label - but everyone has the right to be treated and identified as the individual they are.
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Post by tysilio2 on Aug 28, 2017 21:27:23 GMT
In complete honesty, taking humour aside, I don't really believe in labels at all. Or sexuality for that manner. I believe we are all human and we can all be attracted to anyone at any time. No one is 100% gay, no one is 100% straight. That's just the truth. Ever had a mancrush/girlcrush? That's even 99% straight then haha. I'm very easy going on the whole labels thing. Call me whatever you want, I don't care. As long as there is good intentions, I'm not gonna be a dick about it. Prefer 'knob' to 'dick' though.......
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Post by wickedgrin on Aug 28, 2017 21:44:57 GMT
I grew up during a time when "queer" was a pejorative word. I used to be called a f****** queer. So personally I was horrified to see adverts for the BBC's Queer Season. The word has very negative personal connotations for me.
I have given up trying to keep up with words that are now considered fashionable and PC for sexual orientation, gender, disability, race etc. because if you inadvertently get it wrong people fly off into a rage! So I find it best to keep my mouth closed. Fashions change and the use of words change and what was acceptable 40 years ago is not acceptable now and words used today will become unacceptable in the future.
I for one am sorry to see the word "Gay" dropped from Gay Pride -they are now know as Pride weekends or some such. This is because it was not considered "inclusive" enough and LGBTQA and the rest of the alphabet was too ridiculous. What has happened of course is that Pride has lost it's GAY focus and has become just a huge commercial event for a city for the entire population. Let's just have a carnival!
A very interesting topic Burly Bear!
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 28, 2017 22:02:06 GMT
As long as there is heteronormativity there will be a need for labels, sadly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 22:03:29 GMT
I have to say that my immediate association with the word now is not as a slur, but as a movement. Perhaps this is due to me having to write and read about 'queer literature' and so on in university for the last six years. It does seem like the word has taken a sharp turn in what it is generally accepted to mean as I definitely remember it being widely used as a slur when I was a child, but then again I would imagine the world in general is kinder to gay people now than it was even 15 years ago.
Having said that, it's not my place to use it to describe someone or to address someone, at least not without them saying that's how they wish to be described and addressed. The reclamation of a term doesn't take away the history, and it's the same as the n word in that regard.
I feel like it's similar to women affectionately calling each other bitches, but then again we haven't quite managed to stop men from calling us that yet either.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 22:08:34 GMT
I have to say that my immediate association with the word now is not as a slur, but as a movement. Perhaps this is due to me having to write and read about 'queer literature' and so on in university for the last six years. It does seem like the word has taken a sharp turn in what it is generally accepted to mean as I definitely remember it being widely used as a slur when I was a child, but then again I would imagine the world in general is kinder to gay people now than it was even 15 years ago. Having said that, it's not my place to use it to describe someone or to address someone, at least not without them saying that's how they wish to be described and addressed. The reclamation of a term doesn't take away the history, and it's the same as the n word in that regard. I feel like it's similar to women affectionately calling each other bitches, but then again we haven't quite managed to stop men from calling us that yet either. Don't you worry about asking me love if/when we meet, you call me whatever you wanna call me! But funnily enough on the last part of your comment, alot of my female friends allow me to use the term bitches in a jokey way all the time, they don't care at all about it. And I know alot of gay guys who do this also. So I wonder if it is a thing of females being ok with gay guys saying it but not straight guys?* *this isn't me criticing your point love, just making the point for discussion.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 28, 2017 22:11:34 GMT
Burly Bear when you say things like "Ouch. Not that old thankyou." aren't you being a little insensitive to those of us who are? Age racism is up there with a lot of other things gays have to tolerate. Not that offended because I am quite comfortable with my age but give a thought to those who are offended. I'll certainly bear that in mind @buddyvlc, thank you for the note.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 22:13:19 GMT
I have to say that my immediate association with the word now is not as a slur, but as a movement. Perhaps this is due to me having to write and read about 'queer literature' and so on in university for the last six years. It does seem like the word has taken a sharp turn in what it is generally accepted to mean as I definitely remember it being widely used as a slur when I was a child, but then again I would imagine the world in general is kinder to gay people now than it was even 15 years ago. Having said that, it's not my place to use it to describe someone or to address someone, at least not without them saying that's how they wish to be described and addressed. The reclamation of a term doesn't take away the history, and it's the same as the n word in that regard. I feel like it's similar to women affectionately calling each other bitches, but then again we haven't quite managed to stop men from calling us that yet either. Don't you worry about asking me love if/when we meet, you call me whatever you wanna call me! But funnily enough on the last part of your comment, alot of my female friends allow me to use the term bitches in a jokey way all the time, they don't care at all about it. And I know alot of gay guys who do this also. So I wonder if it is a thing of females being ok with gay guys saying it but not straight guys?* *this isn't me criticing your point love, just making the point for discussion. I think it's an individual thing. I wouldn't have an issue with a gay man (that I was friendly with) calling me bitch, but I probably would have an issue with him calling women as a whole bitches. I know a lot of gay men use it to refer to each other as well. Straight men, it's a no either way as they are the ones that for the most part have used it to attack and diminish women. Should always check though, gay men are still men after all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 22:14:54 GMT
This thread has really taken many different turns in the last day, fascinating!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 22:16:43 GMT
Don't you worry about asking me love if/when we meet, you call me whatever you wanna call me! But funnily enough on the last part of your comment, alot of my female friends allow me to use the term bitches in a jokey way all the time, they don't care at all about it. And I know alot of gay guys who do this also. So I wonder if it is a thing of females being ok with gay guys saying it but not straight guys?* *this isn't me criticing your point love, just making the point for discussion. I think it's an individual thing. I wouldn't have an issue with a gay man (that I was friendly with) calling me bitch, but I probably would have an issue with him calling women as a whole bitches. I know a lot of gay men use it to refer to each other as well. Straight men, it's a no either way as they are the ones that for the most part have used it to attack and diminish women. Should always check though, gay men are still men after all. Oh I completely agree, its always right to check no matter who you are referring too. I personally would only use terms like that if the person was ok with it or encouraged it. Sadly some don't, which is depressing in this day and age that some don't ask, they just do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 22:23:43 GMT
Someone called me a bitch once in bed. I punched him in the nose...
... we ended up together for six months. You win some, you lose some. 😅
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Post by infofreako on Aug 28, 2017 23:34:23 GMT
Someone called me a bitch once in bed. I punched him in the nose... ... we ended up together for six months. You win some, you lose some. 😅 You come across as such an innocent soul
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 23:44:35 GMT
Really do you need to use any term? You don't say, Christopher over there, by the way he is straight? So why would you do the same for a Gay/Lesbian person. Attitudes move on you look at Fawlty Towers the Germen episode and Major and Basil both used to use the 'N' word, so gather people back then found it hilarious, oddly the BBC don't repeat this anymore, I wonder why? You wouldn't use the same humour now and for very good reason. I think that bit of the Fawlty Towers episode is cut out. If it's the part I'm thinking of, the Major describes taking a lady to see India. But it was a Cricket Test Match at Lords probably India's first test match in 1932. The Major we assume was born circa 1900, so may well have had fairly racist attitudes. Basil Fawlty likewise you would consider being narrow minded and having no regard what he said to whom. Rather like the Alf Garnett character, I assume it was written as being ironic and to show that the characters were stupid not to condone racist language to get cheap laughs along the lines of the working man's club type comedians.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Aug 29, 2017 0:08:19 GMT
Basil doesn't use the N word. The Major does in one scene and it's supposed to be an example of how backwards and out of touch he is (Basil seems fairly taken aback at this speech). It's worth pointing out that the Major is not using the word as a slur or term or abuse, but in a matter of fact way, like he genuinely believes that is the correct terminology for a person of African descent. Obviously attitudes have changed and you wouldn't get that now (the BBC decided to edit that line out of repeats a few years ago, to predictable Daily Mail outrage) but in the uncut episode it's not presented as a perfectly acceptable every day word to use.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 7:50:41 GMT
I think, with respect unless you are a person from the groups in question it's not fair to say 'you don't need labels' coming out is a constant process across your life and sometimes instead of explaining an entire sexual or gender identity history to a complete stranger, yes a label is easier. (it's a lovely thought that we'd move 'beyond' labels but we're pretty far from that yet)
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Post by wickedgrin on Aug 29, 2017 9:14:19 GMT
I just say "well hello gorgeous" to everyone. I haven't had anyone object......yet!
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Post by lynette on Aug 29, 2017 15:32:13 GMT
I just say "well hello gorgeous" to everyone. I haven't had anyone object......yet! Like Dickie Attenborough who called everyone darling or dear was it? Cos he couldn't remember their names. I do that now. I'm gonna try 'gorgeous' from now on.
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 29, 2017 16:17:43 GMT
I feel like it's similar to women affectionately calling each other bitches, but then again we haven't quite managed to stop men from calling us that yet either. I've never come across that usage. If another woman called me a bitch I'd assume she was doing it perjoratively. I wouldn't object to it, given I know I'm an unpleasant bitch most of the time, but I certainly would not view it as affectionate. Likewise, if I refer to someone as a bitch (not to her face, I'm not that rude) I'm certainly not being affectionate. I just say "well hello gorgeous" to everyone. I haven't had anyone object......yet! I'd find it deeply embarassing if anyone ever greeted me like that. As I am fairly plain it would not be the truth anyway. I find it embarassing enough if I'm visiting somewhere up north & get every get called "love" by shop assistants or train conductors.
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Post by hulmeman on Aug 29, 2017 16:23:24 GMT
Danieljohnson14 - you confuse me in this post! At one point you tell snutte he/she can call you what they like, then you tell us you punched someone in the face for calling you "bitch"!!!!
Is the location of the calling important? We need to know!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 19:23:23 GMT
Let's adopt the Nottingham/Midlands affectation of 'Duck' regardless of age, gender or anything else. Look lads I know I waddle a bit but come on...
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