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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 17, 2019 16:15:43 GMT
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523 posts
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Post by vabbian on May 17, 2019 16:18:55 GMT
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Post by londonpostie on May 19, 2019 9:11:03 GMT
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2,962 posts
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Post by crowblack on May 19, 2019 10:13:33 GMT
Goodness me, WHAT a take! However, it doesn't address something fundamental - that actual medieval societies believed in god/gods. I think this is something we just don't 'get' now*. It's been an underlying problem with GoT (the TV series - I haven't read the books) - 'rightful' kings have , in the minds of the populace they seek to control, God at their back. Even so, in GoT's relatively godless world, Danaerys has been obsessed with the idea that she is the rightful monarch - and now, with the revelation about Jo Snow, that's been snatched away from her, so she's snapped. Can't rule by being the anointed one, in medieval thinking, but still can through fear/superior weaponry. I think for a TV series to truly reflect all the factors that shape history, from bad weather to printing presses, good roads etc. would be beyond the budget and patience of studios/writers/actors and audience. I do also think the 'kill baby Hitler' pop culture narrative has misled us into a way of thinking about history that has left many people unprepared for what's happening right now, for example. *A Man for All Seasons. It's not really a choice to someone who believes in eternal damnation, is it? Similarly in Guardian-type discourses around faith schools, burquas etc. - if you believe something is pleasing / displeasing to an all powerful deity who created and can punish you, can you have 'free choice'?
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 20, 2019 2:36:40 GMT
I really am not sure what to think about that. {Spoiler - click to view} On the plus side, Peter Dinklage held the whole thing together with a great performance
Kit Harrington did convey Jon's torment
But Sam and the book - that was just trite
And Bran becoming king? Nah, I don't buy that.
I can just about follow Tyrion's thinking - but he could have made a slightly different speech about Jon or Sansa
Good that they didn't try to wrap up all the story arcs - but they gave it a good go.
It was always going to be impossible to make this work perfectly. They tried - but the lack of source material to flesh out the ending, it was a tall order.
They tried. It just about worked.
But Bran on the throne??? Really?
(and I don't care about Dany dying. Her speech on the steps made it inevitable - there was no way back for her.)
Very meh at the moment. It might be better on rewatching in a few months
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1,203 posts
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Post by Steve on May 20, 2019 2:43:06 GMT
After feeling like they missed a thousand plot beats in the penultimate episode, I felt the finale was just right.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 20, 2019 2:45:04 GMT
After feeling like they missed a thousand plot beats in the penultimate episode, I felt the finale was just right. {Spoiler - click to view} I am just not sure Bran deserved the promotion...
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230 posts
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Post by hal9000 on May 20, 2019 2:53:35 GMT
I was accidentally spoiled a few days ago (waves fist at reddit addicted coworker) but nonetheless loved the finale.
My late father was in on a wheelchair the last 5 years of his life and died after Season 7 ended. So I cried bittersweet tears today.
And it’s opened up for a new series in 10 years, so yay!
Still hate Sam, still hate Bronn and it has a lot to do with their sing-songy manner of speech. And the supremely self-interested like Bronn tend not to die, which is always annoying.
And Robyn Arryn had a major glow up, y’all
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343 posts
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Post by sophizoey on May 20, 2019 5:33:41 GMT
I found that satisfying, not incredible or mind blowing. I predicted everything that was going to happen at 04:30 am before I got up to watch it. {Spoiler - Click to show} I'm glad Daenerys got to "break the wheel", even if she isn't alive to see it. Which was the right thing. I'm still completely unsatisfied with Cersei's end, and was hoping she'd be alive under there for a proper ending. Once again though - 'The lone wolf dies but the pack survives.' The Starks have well and truly proved that. I can't be the only one worried now they've all going their separate way in the conclusion.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 5:59:31 GMT
And Robyn Arryn had a major glow up, y’all Very Neville Longbottom!
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523 posts
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Post by vabbian on May 20, 2019 10:17:00 GMT
First Madonna's performance was a flop, and then Game of Thrones was a flop. All in one weekend
My poor gay heart
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2,565 posts
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Post by viserys on May 20, 2019 11:00:47 GMT
I enjoyed the finale. {Spoiler - click to view} Bran was a surprise, but Tyrion gave a good explanation why he's a good choice, especially the bit about him having no children to start a new "dynasty". The only thing I found slightly odd was that no sooner that a man from the North had been put on the throne, the North decided on Independence. Good end for Jon, going home north where he belongs. Also loved that once more there's a "last Targaryen" up at the Wall. Would love to see a sequel of Arya The Explorer... eventually coming across Drogon, who's somehow found a mate and had little dragonbabies.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 11:44:26 GMT
I enjoyed the finale. {Spoiler - click to view} Bran was a surprise, but Tyrion gave a good explanation why he's a good choice, especially the bit about him having no children to start a new "dynasty". The only thing I found slightly odd was that no sooner that a man from the North had been put on the throne, the North decided on Independence. Good end for Jon, going home north where he belongs. Also loved that once more there's a "last Targaryen" up at the Wall. Would love to see a sequel of Arya The Explorer... eventually coming across Drogon, who's somehow found a mate and had little dragonbabies.
I agree and I look forward to that show. I thought they landed it and I was worried they wouldn’t. I felt like my investment was paid in full. Yes, I could nitpick, and I am sure I will, but I enjoyed just leaning into the spectacle. I had made a few written predictions before the season began one of them that Jon would kill Dany but I still gasped when it happened and that’s enough for me. I airpunched when the gates of Castle Black opened and Tormund was revealed and I cried when the Stark children said goodbye I am looking forward to rewatching Tyrion’s speech. I couldn’t decide in the moment if it was Dinklage acting the hell out of it, or if the writing really was echoing Shakespearean verse. Certainly more heightened than the rest of the script.
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2,962 posts
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Post by crowblack on May 20, 2019 11:49:16 GMT
Do we still need spoiler brackets? I thought it was very satisfying, if a bit derivative - the Lord of the Rings 'hey, it's the book' and dockside farewell, though I liked Arya going full Reepicheep (they were hinting at that a couple of episodes ago - I wondered then if Americans of Martin's generation were that familiar with Narnia but evidently they were). And I did cry, and go yes! at times. There was an I Claudius reference in the very first episode when Jon found the wolf cub which hinted at an 'unlikeliest/disabled character gets throne' storyline so it did fulfill that in a way. Btw, there was talk that HBO and the BBC were redoing I Claudius back in 2011, but nothing has come of that so far - and Toby Jones is now too old!
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2,565 posts
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Post by viserys on May 20, 2019 11:58:46 GMT
Do we still need spoiler brackets? I don't know, but I don't want to be the one to get hauled over the coals (or torched by a dragon) for spoiling things!
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688 posts
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Post by sophie92 on May 20, 2019 12:01:21 GMT
Yeah, I think I actually kind of loved it. I definitely think the season up until this point was rushed, and I have gripes about other episodes, but I was completely satisfied with this as a finale. All I really wanted was for the Stark children to get some semblance of a happy ending, and they did. I gasped, I cried, I laughed out loud. Other than Grey’s Anatomy constantly making me cry, it’s been a long time since I’ve had such a reaction to a TV show. I read one review that criticised not actually showing Jon stab Dany - for me, how they shot it made complete sense, because even though I was expecting someone to kill her, it took me totally by surprise and I gasped very dramatically. I cackled at Edmure putting himself forward and Sansa firmly putting him down, at Sam inventing democracy and being laughed down, at Tyrion straightening the chairs and getting annoyed when the council promptly moved them. I wept at Brienne writing Jaime’s legacy in the white book, at Greyworm setting sail with the Unsullied to Naath, at the Stark children’s goodbye, at Jon seeing Tormund again. I cheered and cried at Jon’s reunion with Ghost!
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2,962 posts
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Post by crowblack on May 20, 2019 12:16:53 GMT
I couldn't remember how to do them but have added them now, though tbh anyone looking at this thread now must know what they're in for.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 20, 2019 12:23:21 GMT
Do we still need spoiler brackets? I don't know, but I don't want to be the one to get hauled over the coals (or torched by a dragon) for spoiling things! I only used them because I watched it live and didn't want to upset anyone who would be waiting for the UK screening tonight
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523 posts
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Post by vabbian on May 20, 2019 12:29:05 GMT
{Spoiler - click to view}
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 13:21:48 GMT
I think tags until it’s shown tonight?
I quite like to be able to get a sense of the general reception of things knowing it won’t get spoilt.
Also, I only recently learnt how to use them.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2019 21:34:26 GMT
I thought the final episode was a bore. Some of it predictable. Considering how much they have rushed most of this season, I thought the final episode dragged on.
seeing as we had to wait 2 years for it, I was hoping for more.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 20, 2019 22:25:45 GMT
I have been a defender of this season - but there were parts of the finale that I really couldn't abide.
Bran as King - that is a step too far. I just don't buy it (even after Tyrion's persuasive speech) Sam presenting the book - far too cheesy The far too obvious references to the end of the LOTR movies
I wanted a bit more edge. Yes, Dany was killed - but that much has been obvious for some time. There wasn't enough bitter and too much sweet for me.
Yes, I did like a number of performances and I loved seeing Edmure fail again. Peter Dinklage should win an award or two for this episode - he really did hold it together. It was - on the whole - beautifully shot (there were a couple of greenscreen infelicities) and I did love the use of music.
But I wanted some sense of danger in the ending. Something to hint at future unease.
It might better when I rewatch in a few months. We shall see
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Post by orchidman on May 20, 2019 22:30:24 GMT
You have to hand it to the writers. Just when you think the series can't get any stupider, they pull out all the stops like that.
It's a show called Game of Thrones in which everyone has been fighting for the throne for eight series. But in the end, a group gets together and someone says let's give it to some disabled kid with no experience or desire to lead, who most of us don't know, for absolutely no good reason, and everyone just shrugs and says yes. And then his sister says even though my brother is going to be King, I want our region to have independence. And all the other regions go yeah sure, no problem, because we wouldn't like our own independence. And let's let Davos and Brienne get a vote on the new King because they are characters the audience recognise even though they have no business being there. And Tyrion who was responsible for bringing the Dragon Queen to torch Westeros and the Dothraki who are probably pillaging the capital as this is happening can be the Hand even though he has got every decision wrong for the last three series.
This was a show which used to have guys pulling the strings like Littlefinger, Varys, Tywin, pre-brain tumour Tyrion. But now everyone has a double-digit IQ and knows they are in the last episode of a TV series and forgets about their own interests.
The idea that it's any kind of ending at all is ludicrous. Guaranteed civil war as soon as anyone with any ambition gets any position of power or influence, the throne has never been more vulnerable. Based on the established logic of the last series, if Bronn shows up to the next council meeting with his crossbow, he becomes King because that's all he has to do to get whatever he wants.
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Post by MrsCondomine on May 21, 2019 7:37:42 GMT
I would like to point out that way back in the first season, Bran was acting Lord of Winterfell and showed himself both able and willing to listen to counsel, and able to make fair decisions that helped his people.
His character arc was a long boring slog, but he'll be a fair king.
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Post by MrsCondomine on May 21, 2019 7:46:14 GMT
Predictions for the future of Westeros:
Yara, as Lord Reaper and ironborn, will be obliged to continue reaving. Who do they attack if it's all one big democracy? The democracy starts to weaken.
Sansa is quite inflexible now and will become a tyrant, and Bran will eventually either need to support his sister or bring Winterfell to heel.
Bronn's going to cause a civil war. I don't know how but he WILL. He'll probably go too far in his "fill the coffers using tarts!" economic plan and there will be hell to pay. One disagreement with Bran = crossbow bolt through Bran's chest = riots.
They did away with master of whispers as a post, but let's be real, how else do you keep tabs on an enormous continent without spies? Dorne will probably behave itself, but the aforementioned Iron Islands have a lifestyle to maintain, and who's to say Robin Arryn doesn't have some crazy streak inherited from Mummy...?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 7:51:11 GMT
You have to hand it to the writers. Just when you think the series can't get any stupider, they pull out all the stops like that. It's a show called Game of Thrones in which everyone has been fighting for the throne for eight series. But in the end, a group gets together and someone says let's give it to some disabled kid with no experience or desire to lead, who most of us don't know, for absolutely no good reason, and everyone just shrugs and says yes. I find your casual prejudice about disabled people disgusting.
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Post by orchidman on May 21, 2019 12:35:09 GMT
You have to hand it to the writers. Just when you think the series can't get any stupider, they pull out all the stops like that. It's a show called Game of Thrones in which everyone has been fighting for the throne for eight series. But in the end, a group gets together and someone says let's give it to some disabled kid with no experience or desire to lead, who most of us don't know, for absolutely no good reason, and everyone just shrugs and says yes. I find your casual prejudice about disabled people disgusting. Unpack that for me. Is it that the word disabled is no longer a politically correct term? I guess not because you used it. Or you think it's wrong to mention his disability because it's not relevant information? When referring to a scene in which his sister literally mentions it as relevant information? In a world in which it is desired that the King be very good at fighting? In a world in which, if you needed a reminder that our ethics and morality do not apply to their ideals of governance, in that exact scene, representative democracy is proposed as a form of government and everyone laughs their heads off? Or it's that I called him a kid too? I would like to think you could tell I would have been just as condescending if Sansa or Gendry had bizarrely ended up on the throne, either of which would have made roughly as much sense as Bran, rather than that I have some rabid hatred of disabled people in positions of power. But perhaps it would it be okay if I called him a 'disabled guy?' Enlighten me.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 13:24:30 GMT
I find your casual prejudice about disabled people disgusting. Unpack that for me. Is it that the word disabled is no longer a politically correct term? I guess not because you used it. Or you think it's wrong to mention his disability because it's not relevant information? When referring to a scene in which his sister literally mentions it as relevant information? In a world in which it is desired that the King be very good at fighting? In a world in which, if you needed a reminder that our ethics and morality do not apply to their ideals of governance, in that exact scene, representative democracy is proposed as a form of government and everyone laughs their heads off? Or it's that I called him a kid too? I would like to think you could tell I would have been just as condescending if Sansa or Gendry had bizarrely ended up on the throne, either of which would have made roughly as much sense as Bran, rather than that I have some rabid hatred of disabled people in positions of power. But perhaps it would it be okay if I called him a 'disabled guy?' Enlighten me. I saw nothing you said which constitutes a prejudice. What you said actually made sense both within the fantasy World the programme exists within and within the historical context elements of it were (loosely) based upon. Such attitudes - not yours I hasten to add - do more damage than good because they make people groan rather than sit up and pay attention.
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1,244 posts
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Post by londonmzfitz on May 21, 2019 13:41:46 GMT
No way would Grey Worm let Jon Snow live after killing his Queen. No way would the Dothraki shrug and poodle off on a ship for new lands after the death of their Queen when they've followed her through continents and across the sea. The Unsullied and Dothraki are fighting men and there'd have been a riot. That's the big error for me on the last episode. Jon went to the Wall willingly in Series 1, how is it seen as a fitting punishment for killing the Queen?
I was going to re-watch from Series 1 (Sky must be running them again over the Summer, my box set having disappeared after a party at my house - bah!). But I might re-read the books instead and hope for George R R Martin to get of his arse and get another one out.
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Post by MrsCondomine on May 21, 2019 13:54:15 GMT
I read GRRM's blog (or at least the first few posts) - he was like "why would I lie about finishing the book? Of course I would publish it when I finish it! I make millions when they get published!" and I was like oh wait I definitely see how you are the grubby douchebag type who would write about a twelve year old girl's breasts. Huh.
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