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Post by Jon on Oct 9, 2017 20:27:09 GMT
It’ll vary on size and location, The Palladium probably costs more than the Playhouse for example.
ATG paid £90m for the Live Nation theatres but that was mostly for the regional theatres. I’m not sure what Nederlander paid to acquire LN stake in the Dominion but I imagine it was a couple of million, I do wonder how much Cameron paid for the VP and the Ambassadors, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cameron got the VP at a lower price in exchange for paying for the refurb
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 11:31:01 GMT
I found an article that says ALW sold the Palace, Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's Theatre for an estimated sum of about £50 million. That would make it about £12.5 each. But of course some are bigger than the others, so the smaller ones probably cost around £10 million. Something like the Noël Coward would probably go for under £10 million I suppose, especially since it's not very modern.
EDIT: Just did a quick check and turns out he didn't actually sell the Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's. But it seems to have been the plan to do so.
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Post by TallPaul on Oct 10, 2017 13:19:27 GMT
The simple answer is a theatre is worth whatever someone (an individual or company) is prepared to pay for it. In reality, it is of course much more complicated than that.
Even by my usual standards this is going to get quite boring, so please fell free to stop reading now. I shan't be offended.
The real value, especially in central London, is in the land, because, as the saying goes, they aren't making anymore. The problems really start if some well meaning Victorian or Edwardian built a theatre on top! As 33 of the West End theatres are listed, and must therefore be maintained to a certain standard, the liabilities are huge. However much is invested in a listed theatre will never be reflected in the resale value.
Let's take the Victoria Palace as an example. Cam Mack agreed to pay £26,130,000 for the VP, with £21,130,000 paid in cash on completion, and the remaining £5,000,000 held in escrew as contingency, to be paid between September 2016 and December 2019. It has already been 'negotiated' that the final consideration will be reduced by at least £1,750,000, so the maximum that will be paid for the VP is now £24,380,000. As we have seen, it will probably be somewhat less than that.
Anyway, as you were.
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Post by Jon on Oct 10, 2017 13:56:10 GMT
I found an article that says ALW sold the Palace, Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's Theatre for an estimated sum of about £50 million. That would make it about £12.5 each. But of course some are bigger than the others, so the smaller ones probably cost around £10 million. Something like the Noël Coward would probably go for under £10 million I suppose, especially since it's not very modern. EDIT: Just did a quick check and turns out he didn't actually sell the Cambridge, New London and Her Majesty's. But it seems to have been the plan to do so. ALW did originally sell those theatres to GradeLinnit but it fell through due to contract issues
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 16:28:55 GMT
The simple answer is a theatre is worth whatever someone (an individual or company) is prepared to pay for it. In reality, it is of course much more complicated than that. Even by my usual standards this is going to get quite boring, so please fell free to stop reading now. I shan't be offended. The real value, especially in central London, is in the land, because, as the saying goes, they aren't making anymore. The problems really start if some well meaning Victorian or Edwardian built a theatre on top! As 33 of the West End theatres are listed, and must therefore be maintained to a certain standard, the liabilities are huge. However much is invested in a listed theatre will never be reflected in the resale value. Let's take the Victoria Palace as an example. Cam Mack agreed to pay £26,130,000 for the VP, with £21,130,000 paid in cash on completion, and the remaining £5,000,000 held in escrew as contingency, to be paid between September 2016 and December 2019. It has already been 'negotiated' that the final consideration will be reduced by at least £1,750,000, so the maximum that will be paid for the VP is now £24,380,000. As we have seen, it will probably be somewhat less than that. Anyway, as you were. That was actually a very interesting answer. Thank you! Where did you find those numbers? I've looked long and hard on the internet to find some prices but could never find anything specific.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 17:29:06 GMT
£15 to £20 million or so, I'd estimate. I'll take two.
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Post by TallPaul on Oct 11, 2017 13:26:09 GMT
Interesting? Me? Are you sure @pointone ? Since it stopped charging, Companies House has become a more accessible mine of information. This is the link for Victoria Palace Theatre Ltd, but you can also search for anything and everything at your leisure, if you are that interested. beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09146317/filing-history
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 17:12:10 GMT
Interesting? Me? Are you sure @pointone ? Since it stopped charging, Companies House has become a more accessible mine of information. This is the link for Victoria Palace Theatre Ltd, but you can also search for anything and everything at your leisure, if you are that interested. beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09146317/filing-historyWell, I'm a rather boring chap myself who actually finds this kind of stuff interesting Thanks for the link!
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Post by bellboard27 on Jan 24, 2018 7:10:57 GMT
The Theatre Royal Haymarket is up for sale (well a less than 70 year lease of a crown property).
Place your bids please!
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Jan 24, 2018 7:50:18 GMT
Interesting! More on this here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42788568Wonder who it will go to - I presume one of the big theatre groups. Feels to me that it either needs that (with the opportunities for cross-promotion etc), or to be run on the lines of the Old Vic or something like the Branagh or Grandage West End seasons with a planned programme rather than as a receiving house for random stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 8:04:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 10:54:52 GMT
The Theatre Royal Haymarket is up for sale (well a less than 70 year lease of a crown property). Place your bids please! Marvellous. I'll take it. I found some spare change at the back of the sofa last night so it must be kismet. In fact, that might well be my first show.
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 11:47:36 GMT
Interesting! More on this here - www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42788568Wonder who it will go to - I presume one of the big theatre groups. Feels to me that it either needs that (with the opportunities for cross-promotion etc), or to be run on the lines of the Old Vic or something like the Branagh or Grandage West End seasons with a planned programme rather than as a receiving house for random stuff. They did do in-house productions for a time but reverted back to receiving and co-producing shows. My guess for the bidders is Nimax, ATG or Trafalgar Entertainment if Panter and Squire are interested in acquiring another theatre
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Post by Rory on Jan 24, 2018 12:43:08 GMT
I could also see Sir Cameron raiding his piggy bank!
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 12:53:26 GMT
I could also see Sir Cameron raiding his piggy bank! I don’t see Cameron buying another theatre since he’s going to spending a fair bit of money on turning the Ambassadors into the Sondheim
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Post by TallPaul on Jan 24, 2018 13:21:31 GMT
There are, of course, other costs, but between all Board members we could easily afford the annual rent, which is just £1,000.
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 13:29:18 GMT
I do think the reasons for selling by the leaseholders blaming streaming services like Netflix and Amazon for big names not coming to the theatre is a bit suspect and all the other theatre owners haven’t had issues attracting plays with top talent. I suspect being an independent theatre operator means they can’t compete with the big boys
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Post by lynette on Jan 24, 2018 15:27:54 GMT
Short lease is a problem. Wonder how much they want to extend?
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 15:33:51 GMT
Short lease is a problem. Wonder how much they want to extend? 68 years isn't exactly short!
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Post by The Matthew on Jan 24, 2018 15:58:56 GMT
Short lease is a problem. Wonder how much they want to extend? 68 years isn't exactly short! It's not that long either. If the buyer sells it after 25 years there'll only be 43 years left so it'll be less valuable, especially as prospective buyers at that time will be thinking about the number of years left when they want to sell.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 24, 2018 17:04:25 GMT
I could also see Sir Cameron raiding his piggy bank! He won’t make that mistake again, like he did at the Novello.
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 17:18:29 GMT
Another question is how the Monopolies Commission (no, not the one who decides how much Park Lane will cost) will view bids from the most likely contenders. There may be mutterings, particularly if ATG bid, possibly even DelMac, I'd guess. Wonder if Nederlander are interested? Can't see RU adding to their portfolio, considering they wanted to divest a few years back. Could Nimax or Panter/Squire (Pants?) raise the cash - wouldn't mind either of them getting it. If I win the lottery between now and then, though... I could see Nimax being interested although they have the Astoria coming in 2020/2021 so they might think that seven theatres is enough for them. Trafalgar Entertainment Group (Panter and Squire's company) to me would seem more likely, they're looking to acquire more theatres and the TRH at 893 seats is almost triple the capacity of Trafalgar Studios 1.
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Post by Jon on Jan 24, 2018 18:27:02 GMT
The only question is would they want an inflexible grade I listed building? I see very little chance of them being permitted to alter the layout even temporarily, in the manner they enjoyed doing. True but at the same time, it could be their receiving house and Trafalgar 1 could be the theatre for more flexible productions.
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Post by queenie on Jan 25, 2018 7:50:40 GMT
Ah, the end of an era with Mr Crook's retirement. What a huge contribution the management of this theatre have made to the careers of young people with the Masterclass Trust. Long may it continue.
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Post by Jan on Jan 25, 2018 14:52:39 GMT
Not interested. The Grade 1 listing would prevent me from flattening the place and replacing it with a proper modern theatre with good sight lines, toilets, front of house etc.
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Post by Rory on Jan 25, 2018 20:09:16 GMT
I really want one of the main theatre owners to get it.
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Post by Rory on Jan 25, 2018 20:10:36 GMT
I could also see Sir Cameron raiding his piggy bank! He won’t make that mistake again, like he did at the Novello. What do you mean Phantom of London?
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 25, 2018 20:53:52 GMT
He won’t make that mistake again, like he did at the Novello. What do you mean Phantom of London ? Oh Betty!
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Post by Rory on Jan 25, 2018 21:05:30 GMT
Ah, Blue Eyes. Took me a while!
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Post by Dr Tom on Jan 25, 2018 23:16:10 GMT
You have your tickets for the Joe Pasquale tour already?
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