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Post by foxa on Feb 27, 2017 13:40:37 GMT
I feel bad for Beatty - the first stuff I saw when I woke up (unlike you nightbirds who watched it live) were ageist postings about how he was 'an old white dude' who should have worn glasses. And I feel sorry for all the others too BUT in the end I hope a lot of people go see both films. I didn't hear it, but someone there said the sound of Emma Stone going 'Oh my god' when she realised what had happened was why he didn't 'go to horror films anymore.' (Unlike Gosling who was apparently giggling onstage and then 'stony-faced' afterwards.) And I think people were accusing her of somehow handing her Best actress card to someone causing it to be onstage, so instead of saying how great it felt to win she had to spend a long time saying, 'honestly, it's been in my hand the whole time.'
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Post by dizzieblonde on Feb 27, 2017 13:42:40 GMT
Really unfair if Beatty starts getting a lot of backlash for it- I've only seen clips but quite clearly he was reading and re-reading and looking a bit confused, then as Foxa says Dunaway took it and read it (no disrespect to her, in the heat of the moment it was a fair assumption to quick read the title and announce, I know I wouldn't do any better under pressure) I mean ultimately a cock up but nobody died, and everyone stayed classy. (and *cough cough* the better film did actually win). Is this the first time in Oscars history such a thing has happened does anyone know? To be fair to both presenters, Beatty knew from the moment he pulled the card out of the envelope that something wasn't right. You can see him going back into the envelope to see if there was another card. He stalls, and keeps looking at the card, but I don't think it occurred to him to look at the writing on the outside of the envelope, which would have instantly told him that he had the entirely wrong envelope. His big error was showing the card to Faye Dunaway, who called out the film name before understanding why Beatty was stalling. Faye was waiting for his announcement, and when he showed her the card, she barely glanced at it, saw La La Land (but probably didn't even register that Emma Stone's name was also on the card), and announced it, perhaps thinking that Warren couldn't make out the wording or something. It's pretty clear what happened - the one of two PWC accountants (who stand on each side of the stage) gave Beatty the back-up envelope from the previous award. It's just dumb luck that the winner of the award before best picture was the actress from La La Land. Had it been any of the other acting categories, it would have been instantly obvious to the presenters that they had the wrong card. It's likely the PWC error that led to this chaos, but I do blame the show producers, who must have known almost instantly (probably by a stage hand screaming that the PWC accountant just collapsed in a heap crying 'wrong card, wrong card'), and they didn't pull the mics, or go to commercial before the bulk of the cast and crew of La La Land reached the stage. I think they spent 30 seconds too long trying to work out what they should do, instead of getting Jimmy or a producer on the stage to halt the award presentation. I remember seeing a behind the scenes Oscars programme, and the presenters get handed the envelope literally a second before they walk on stage. The focus about these awards is to protect the integrity of the voting process, and the secrecy of the awards results, which has clearly led to presenters being handed it in the semi-darkness of backstage, and not actually having a chance to double check they've got the right thing. Obviously, having now screwed up the biggest award, at the biggest ceremony, people will know to check, but it's too late for Moonlight to enjoy their moment properly. Such a shame - it was a brilliant film and well deserved. As much as I enjoyed La La Land, there were big issues with some of the performances and the film as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:44:14 GMT
I did watch an interview with Emma afterward however, and she said that she had the card saying Best Actress in her hand at the time it happened. So whether they have doubles, which is not needed as there wasn't two hosts for Best Actress, then someone could potentiallt of done it on purpose. I believe there are two sets of envelopes because the presenter of the award can enter the stage from either side.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:46:09 GMT
dizzieblonde Not sure why I'm quoted in that specifically? I've not said anything controversial there as far as I can tell, or majorly different to others in the thread...nor does my comment disagree with yours? just a bit confused.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:48:34 GMT
I feel bad for Beatty - the first stuff I saw when I woke up (unlike you nightbirds who watched it live) were ageist postings about how he was 'an old white dude' who should have worn glasses. And I feel sorry for all the others too BUT in the end I hope a lot of people go see both films. I didn't hear it, but someone there said the sound of Emma Stone going 'Oh my god' when she realised what had happened was why he didn't 'go to horror films anymore.' (Unlike Gosling who was apparently giggling onstage and then 'stony-faced' afterwards.) And I think people were accusing her of somehow handing her Best actress card to someone causing it to be onstage, so instead of saying how great it felt to win she had to spend a long time saying, 'honestly, it's been in my hand the whole time.' I'm also hating the use of the 'old white dude' as if he's in some sort of 'conspiracy' to stop Moonlight winning...I'm 100% behind the campaigns to get more diversity into the Oscars, but that people seriously believe he deliberately set out to sabotage because he's an 'old white dude' is just a bit OTT
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Post by dizzieblonde on Feb 27, 2017 13:50:10 GMT
dizzieblonde Not sure why I'm quoted in that specifically? I've not said anything controversial there as far as I can tell, or majorly different to others in the thread...nor does my comment disagree with yours? just a bit confused. I'm not disagreeing with your post! What makes you think I am?! Are we not allowed to quote posts to expand more on something they say? Just checking!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:52:23 GMT
dizzieblonde Not sure why I'm quoted in that specifically? I've not said anything controversial there as far as I can tell, or majorly different to others in the thread...nor does my comment disagree with yours? just a bit confused. I'm not disagreeing with your post! What makes you think I am?! Are we not allowed to quote posts to expand more on something they say? Just checking! Oh no I just wasn't clear on why you were quoting me! it just felt I was missing something that related to what I said so wanted to check...!
ETA possibly because it's usually someone wanting to say I'm wrong haha
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Post by Phantom of London on Feb 27, 2017 15:35:44 GMT
Just catching up on the shenanigans with La La Land winning Best Picture, so it did actually happen and wasn't fake news?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 17:10:03 GMT
Putting aside the mess-up: Moonlight is my favourite film of all time. I actually saw it and La La Land on the same day back in October at London Film Festival. LLL was by far my most anticipated film of the year and the only reason I got a ticket to Moonlight was because it had great reviews and I wanted to waste time before LLL started.
I came out of La La Land having enjoyed myself greatly but feeling slightly disappointed.
I came out of Moonlight physically shaking because I was so moved by what I had just seen.
The first gay film to win Best Picture. The first film with an all black cast to win Best Picture. A film with a $1.5 million budget won Best Picture.
All of this against a film that tied the record for the most Oscar nominations ever and was an ode to Hollywood that had won BAFTA, Golden Globe, Critics Choice etc. etc. etc.
This would have been a monumental upset even if they had announced it normally.
It's an incredible, incredible win for a small, unconventional masterpiece of a film and that shouldn't be overlooked by the mistake.
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Post by 49thand8th on Feb 27, 2017 17:23:04 GMT
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Post by bellboard27 on Feb 27, 2017 18:41:53 GMT
Viola Davis speech; "we are the only profession that celebrates what it means to live a life". Seriously?
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Post by dizzieblonde on Feb 27, 2017 18:56:43 GMT
Putting aside the mess-up: Moonlight is my favourite film of all time. I actually saw it and La La Land on the same day back in October at London Film Festival. LLL was by far my most anticipated film of the year and the only reason I got a ticket to Moonlight was because it had great reviews and I wanted to waste time before LLL started. I came out of La La Land having enjoyed myself greatly but feeling slightly disappointed.
I came out of Moonlight physically shaking because I was so moved by what I had just seen.The first gay film to win Best Picture. The first film with an all black cast to win Best Picture. A film with a $1.5 million budget won Best Picture. All of this against a film that tied the record for the most Oscar nominations ever and was an ode to Hollywood that had won BAFTA, Golden Globe, Critics Choice etc. etc. etc. This would have been a monumental upset even if they had announced it normally. It's an incredible, incredible win for a small, unconventional masterpiece of a film and that shouldn't be overlooked by the mistake. BIB - that's pretty much my thoughts about the two films. La La Land was good, but I was a tiny bit disappointed with the end results, and some of the choices made, both by the actors and the director. It could have been incredible, but fell a little way short. I suspect the number of awards La La Land got reflected Hollywood's love of self-referential subject matter and anything sentimental, and were basically more about the idea of the musical about LA and their industry, rather than about the execution. Moonlight, on the other hand, exceeded every expectation I had about the subject matter. I think Naomi Harris was robbed of that Oscar, she was outstanding. BTW,that Slate video is both illuminating and hilarious, in a so-very-awkward way! It does show the huge time that clearly elapsed before they actually got the balls to cut into the speeches - the fact that the third producer was in the middle of his speech is kind of ridiculous. They could have acted so much faster - but this was (until last night) obviously a loophole area, that no one had planned for. No one thought the entire wrong name would both appear on a card that was held by a presenter AND get as far as being read out. In an awful way, this was the only award category to get wrong, where it could feasibly go all the way through to people being on stage and accepting the award. Reading Emma Stone's name on a card that ought to contain the names of directors, other acting categories, music or any of the technical ones, would have instantly raised a red flag to the presenters, and would have stopped the award presentation before someone was on stage giving a tearful acceptance speech, before being forced to hand over a statue to someone else! It totally was one of those perfect storm moments, where any other combination of events would have resulted in it never getting that far. But hey, it makes for great copy in the morning papers, and livened up what was (let's be honest here) a fairly dull Oscar ceremony! It'll certainly up the viewing figures for the highlights shows!
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Post by poster J on Feb 27, 2017 22:31:42 GMT
Viola Davis speech; "we are the only profession that celebrates what it means to live a life". Seriously? She's not entirely wrong - the arts are the only profession where it is people's jobs to immortalise what it means to live a life in various forms of media. And obviously you have to take the whole speech in context, not just one throwaway line in the heat of the moment. But of course the tabloids are predictably all doing the complete opposite and fixating on one line instead of celebrating the fact she finally won.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 28, 2017 14:03:30 GMT
Whatvstood out to me was how Beatty knew it was wrong but instead of questioning it completely bottled it and handed it over to Dunaway to deal.
Madonna once called him "you pussy man". She was right.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Feb 28, 2017 14:07:57 GMT
But fun!
Faye Dunaway is a sentient human being, responsible for her own actions.
"I'm not to blame. Warren handed me the card," as an excuse, would be a retrograde step for feminism and human rights.
The pair of them were lucky to escape a renactment of the end of Bonnie and Clyde at the hands of the La La Land posse.
Peace and love!
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Post by foxa on Mar 2, 2017 8:49:53 GMT
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Post by The Matthew on Mar 2, 2017 10:19:48 GMT
With all this second-by-second forensic examination it's almost as if it actually matters.
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Post by foxa on Mar 2, 2017 16:29:26 GMT
You may be right - it's unhealthy. I thought that even more when I read the accountants involved in the mix-up, not only can no longer be involved with the show, but have had death threats on social media. Their firm has hired bodyguards for them. Seriously.
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Post by anthony40 on Mar 2, 2017 17:03:28 GMT
Told ya someone, somewhere would loose their job over this.
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Post by kathryn on Mar 3, 2017 8:55:58 GMT
Seems a bit unfair that Martha Ruiz - the accountant who did not mix up the envelopes - has been removed from the Oscars too.
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Post by lou105 on Mar 3, 2017 9:00:38 GMT
Seems a bit unfair that Martha Ruiz - the accountant who did not mix up the envelopes - has been removed from the Oscars too. Part of the issue seems to be that, when it came to it, neither of them was willing to go on stage, as previously agreed, to point out the error before the apparent winners got into their speeches.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 9:01:28 GMT
The protocol for a wrong result being announced involved one or both of the PwC accountants putting a stop to proceedings as quickly as possible and putting everything straight. Cullinan may have made the mistake, but Ruiz didn't try to fix it. Both of them were right at the edge of the stage, they should have got to the microphone before any of the La La Land crew, and their failure to fix the issue promptly is just as much of a problem as the issue being caused in the first place.
It's reasonable for them both to removed from the Oscars, it's reasonable for them both not to lose their accountancy jobs, it's absolutely NOT reasonable for people to be sending threats to the pair. Yeah, it's the biggest movie event of the year, but it still in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter that much.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Mar 3, 2017 10:37:48 GMT
Yes, neither of them did their job. They should be deported to their home countries. Make America great again.
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Post by foxa on Mar 3, 2017 15:19:10 GMT
On an unrelated subject. How can I still not be a Senior Member? I'm going to keep posting in this topic until I become one. (And when I do, I'm expecting confetti, party poppers and speeches.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 15:27:25 GMT
I think 500 is the line, so you're REALLY CLOSE.
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Post by bellboard27 on Mar 3, 2017 15:31:06 GMT
On an unrelated subject. How can I still not be a Senior Member? I'm going to keep posting in this topic until I become one. (And when I do, I'm expecting confetti, party poppers and speeches.) It's a cunning plan by the mods to keep deleting your old posts.
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Post by The Matthew on Mar 3, 2017 18:53:35 GMT
On an unrelated subject. How can I still not be a Senior Member? I'm going to keep posting in this topic until I become one. (And when I do, I'm expecting confetti, party poppers and speeches.) The level is 500 posts. We'll try not to increase it to 600 before your next two posts.
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Post by Michael on Mar 3, 2017 19:05:17 GMT
On an unrelated subject. How can I still not be a Senior Member? I'm going to keep posting in this topic until I become one. (And when I do, I'm expecting confetti, party poppers and speeches.) The level is 500 posts. We'll try not to increase it to 600 before your next two posts. ...but we could subtract 100 posts from her counter, couldn't we?
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Post by The Matthew on Mar 3, 2017 20:41:23 GMT
...but we could subtract 100 posts from her counter, couldn't we? I'd forgotten we can do that. I wonder what happens if you set someone's number of posts to -1. Or 4294967295.
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Post by lynette on Mar 3, 2017 22:23:43 GMT
Come on foxa, you can do it.
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