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Post by anita on Apr 5, 2017 14:09:10 GMT
Afraid this is one musical I have never liked.
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Post by wickedgrin on Apr 5, 2017 14:12:36 GMT
Yes, Carousel is one of my least liked shows. Mawkish with some highly dubious themes. I dislike very few performers, but unfortunately Katherine Jenkins is one of them. So I have no hesitation in not attending this show, even if it gets raves!
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Post by The Matthew on Apr 5, 2017 17:28:57 GMT
Just occasionally it would be nice to get a production of Carousel that didn't result in everyone leaping on to their soapboxes to demonstrate how much more enlightened they are than people in the 1940s. The whole point of Carousel is that you're supposed to find domestic violence unacceptable. That's why it's written that way. There has never been a time when audiences were intended to be comfortable with either side of Billy and Julie's relationship.
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Post by Mr Snow on Apr 5, 2017 19:32:41 GMT
Just occasionally it would be nice to get a production of Carousel that didn't result in everyone leaping on to their soapboxes to demonstrate how much more enlightened they are than people in the 1940s. The whole point of Carousel is that you're supposed to find domestic violence unacceptable. That's why it's written that way. There has never been a time when audiences were intended to be comfortable with either side of Billy and Julie's relationship. Maybe I'm too dumb to get that but have seen 3 or 4 productions and I'm just squirming in my seat. I love Oscar H. but if he thinks "you've got to be taught...", then domestic violence is also unforgivable and he should have spelt that out too. Glorious Score and going on the 22nd.
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Post by Mr Snow on Apr 5, 2017 19:33:11 GMT
Yes, Carousel is one of my least liked shows. Mawkish with some highly dubious themes. I dislike very few performers, but unfortunately Katherine Jenkins is one of them. So I have no hesitation in not attending this show, even if it gets raves! So two negatives make....an unmissable show?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 21:13:24 GMT
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Post by wickedgrin on Apr 5, 2017 21:20:59 GMT
Why am I not surprised to read the above?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 21:27:54 GMT
Just occasionally it would be nice to get a production of Carousel that didn't result in everyone leaping on to their soapboxes to demonstrate how much more enlightened they are than people in the 1940s. The whole point of Carousel is that you're supposed to find domestic violence unacceptable. That's why it's written that way. There has never been a time when audiences were intended to be comfortable with either side of Billy and Julie's relationship. Nice. Rather than just educate people you choose to mock. Well done.
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Post by westendlover92 on Apr 5, 2017 21:35:08 GMT
Why am I not surprised to read the above? If you believe everything the media tells You then your silly person..... Atleast it got a reaction from you 💁🏿 Suns objective met!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 22:53:55 GMT
I saw Boe had posted a pic of his dressing room saying "It's not the Ritz but it's home for the next few weeks'. He wasn't being passive aggressive, surely? ;-)
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Post by martin1965 on Apr 6, 2017 6:07:45 GMT
Still in shock from the Sun doing a theatre story! Have they put in a handy FAQ for their readers as to what the "west end" is and who "rodgers and hammerstein" are?
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Apr 6, 2017 6:57:18 GMT
The poster for this looks so cheap - was it designed by the people who do the publicity for Bill Kenwright's touring productions?
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Post by theatremadness on Apr 7, 2017 12:54:21 GMT
Looks like the orchestra are very much 'in a pit' for this, and from other pics online it looks as if it's a little more than semi-staged? Guess we'll find out tonight if anyone is going to the first performance? http://instagram.com/p/BSjhvoKj-lk
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 13:04:26 GMT
Oooo so a different set up from the previous two Spring musical runs, will be interesting to see certainly!
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 7, 2017 13:44:12 GMT
I'm sure the last few times Ive seen carousel, Julie has had the final bow. Anyway, I can't stand her, but Jenkins is the bigger name so it's hardly surprising.
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Post by Mr Snow on Apr 7, 2017 14:28:07 GMT
Looks like the orchestra are very much 'in a pit' for this, and from other pics online it looks as if it's a little more than semi-staged? Guess we'll find out tonight if anyone is going to the first performance? http://instagr.am/p/BSjhvoKj-lk Why do people feel they have to write "An evening of Culture...". I think it’s something to do with British reserve and not wanting to be thought of as being hoity toitty or overly serious. I love a good night out. Sometimes it’s in the theatre and I neither need to feel apologetic or to feign anti intellectualism about it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 14:33:30 GMT
To be fair. I'd demand the best dressing room and the final bow as well. I'd do it if I was in the show as well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 15:42:36 GMT
I remember this time last year when the West End was buzzing about Sunset. Same cannot be said for Carousel, but here's hoping!
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 7, 2017 22:36:19 GMT
Well we know half the article is true, Jenkins gets the last bow...
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Post by westendlover92 on Apr 7, 2017 23:22:29 GMT
Well we know half the article is true, Jenkins gets the last bow... But how WAs the show??....
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Post by sondheimhats on Apr 7, 2017 23:58:55 GMT
Seeing the show tomorrow night. I'm excited to see what Price has done with it, and excited to hear Boe sing the score. It took me a long time and several viewings to appreciate Carousel, so I can understand perfectly why people find it objectionable.
Personally, I think it has an unabashedly anti-violence stance. Other characters, including the Heavenly Friend, are constantly condemning Billy for his violent tendencies, and ultimately, it is his downfall. That said, it's psychologically very complex. It does paint Billy as somewhat sympathetic, which is hard to swallow in contemporary times. I think he is sympathetic, in that he's a person who has been brought up by a society that teaches him that to be a man, he has to assert his dominance by hitting his wife. He doesn't know how else to express himself and deal with his emotions - thus, in a sense, he is a victim of the deep-seated toxic masculinity of society. Julie is even more of a victim, obviously, given that she's the one who actually gets hit. But in a way, she sees through his facade of strength and masculinity to see how insecure he is, and she loves the person who he is inside. It's his insecurities and weakness that ruin their lives, and also his chance at redemption, but he does some good by helping Louise to not to let her father's mistakes define her.
It's an incredibly complex story, and I think this complexity can easily be mistaken for a defense of Billy's behavior. On that note, I don't want to sound as if I am defending Billy's actions either, or saying that victims of domestic abuse should all stay with men who abuse them. But that IS what happens in Carousel, and it results in a fascinating and profoundly emotional story that paints both of these lovers as both sympathetic and deeply damaged.
I think that R&H actually did a very good job telling this story, but much like in South Pacific, they had a clear progressive message that has become muddled with shifting values over time. South Pacific has an incredibly anti-racist message, but the character of Bloody Mary is still a racist stereotype. Similarly, they just didn't have the language to deal with the themes of domestic abuse in Carousel that we do today.
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 8, 2017 0:10:27 GMT
Well we know half the article is true, Jenkins gets the last bow... Oh I don't go till next week. But there's a video on Twitter of curtain call. Full standing ovation but Jenkins gets the final bow. Which I think is a disgrace.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 8, 2017 8:02:02 GMT
The poster for this looks so cheap - was it designed by the people who do the publicity for Bill Kenwright's touring productions? The one for Sunset was awful too, Glenn in that white jacket that looked like it came from M&S. No kimono, no turban... shoddy.
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6,338 posts
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Post by danb on Apr 8, 2017 8:14:12 GMT
The poster for this looks so cheap - was it designed by the people who do the publicity for Bill Kenwright's touring productions? The one for Sunset was awful too, Glenn in that white jacket that looked like it came from M&S. No kimono, no turban... shoddy. Well she had you fooled then because it was from 'Bon Marche'! £16 so they bought two!!!
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Post by shady23 on Apr 8, 2017 9:32:07 GMT
Even in the poser Katherine seems to be trying to edge in front of Alfie.
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Post by sondheimhats on Apr 8, 2017 22:29:54 GMT
Saw this tonight, and really enjoyed it. Lonny Price has a deep understanding of what this text is about at its core, and reflects that brilliantly in many decisions throughout the production. What they did with the Carousel Waltz was a revelation, a stroke of genius. The whole production was beautifully staged, beautifully sung, and beautifully danced.
This COULD have been an extraordinary production, if it weren't for the acting. Mr. Price was dealt a very poor hand with Alfie Boe and Katherine Jenkins*. They simply do not have the acting chops to match Price's level of depth. Jenkins was alright, but playing into the demure archetype rather than the actual character. Boe was worse in my opinion. He strutted around the stage like a toddler pretending to be a grown-up (which might have made for an interesting character choice, had it been intentional). He had very poor diction, and generally didn't seem to understand what he was saying. And believe it or not, this is coming from a fan of his. I loved him in Les Mis, and I think he has an absolutely gorgeous voice. But he was just the wrong person for this role. The supporting actors were better, but no one stood out as particularly memorable.
I hope this production has a future beyond the ENO, as I think it could be something special with competent actors in the leadings roles.
*btw, am I right in assuming that Price had little to no influence in casting Billy and Julie, as is often the case with star casting? I imagine the producers roped all 3 of them in together.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 23:29:10 GMT
Even in the poser Katherine seems to be trying to edge in front of Alfie. There's a Freudian slip if ever I saw it ;-)
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 9, 2017 0:01:51 GMT
Saw this tonight, and really enjoyed it. Lonny Price has a deep understanding of what this text is about at its core, and reflects that brilliantly in many decisions throughout the production. What they did with the Carousel Waltz was a revelation, a stroke of genius. The whole production was beautifully staged, beautifully sung, and beautifully danced. This COULD have been an extraordinary production, if it weren't for the acting. Mr. Price was dealt a very poor hand with Alfie Boe and Katherine Jenkins*. They simply do not have the acting chops to match Price's level of depth. Jenkins was alright, but playing into the demure archetype rather than the actual character. Boe was worse in my opinion. He strutted around the stage like a toddler pretending to be a grown-up (which might have made for an interesting character choice, had it been intentional). He had very poor diction, and generally didn't seem to understand what he was saying. And believe it or not, this is coming from a fan of his. I loved him in Les Mis, and I think he has an absolutely gorgeous voice. But he was just the wrong person for this role. The supporting actors were better, but no one stood out as particularly memorable. I hope this production has a future beyond the ENO, as I think it could be something special with competent actors in the leadings roles. *btw, am I right in assuming that Price had little to no influence in casting Billy and Julie, as is often the case with star casting? I imagine the producers roped all 3 of them in together. A very deep and concise review.
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Post by Steve on Apr 9, 2017 10:03:11 GMT
Saw the matinee yesterday, and agree with sondheimhats. Great semi-staging, great chorus, great Gavin Spokes, great Daniel Hagen, better than expected Katherine Jenkins, all brought down by a sullen charisma-free misfire of a Billy Bigelow. Spoilers follow. . . Carousel is one of my favourite musicals. Sure, it's got problematic elements, not least of which is the concept of a "kiss with a fist," the dubious concept of the pain of violence evaporating through love and mysticism. Yet Carousel has a primal power that resonates more profoundly than any other musical, if you tap into it. In essence, it mines the same vein of deep desires that religion does, in particular, Christianity. Like Jesus, Julie Jordan is not a mere person, which is why feminist analysis can't contain her. Like Jesus, Julie Jordan is a font of love; like Jesus, when abused, she "turns the other cheek," her love unconditional; like Jesus, she offers the ultimate: redemption. The idea that whoever we are, no matter how we were born, no matter what we've done, no matter what nature, no matter what nurture, we can have hope, that's what Jesus and Julie Jordan offer, that's the beautiful desperate fantasy that Rodgers and Hammerstein have coded into this musical, with Hammerstein's coupling of the broken conditional "if" of now, with the "golden chances" of hope in a fantasy future (where you can always free yourself from the Carousel of traps that life brutally delivers), while Rodgers butters Hammerstein's religious bread with the most seductive soaring emotional melodies ever written. As a secular person, this musical is the closest I get to religion, with the first two 5 star productions I saw (in the late nineties at the Ahmanson, and in 2014 at the Arcola) leaving me helplessly and deliriously emotional. This new version did NOT hit the spot. . . On the plus side, it's got a half-Hytner approach to the staging that really works. Where Hytner staged his Carousel Waltz in a pincer movement, with the horses riding on wheels below, as a gorgeous giant umbrella enfolded it from above, here the semi-staging necessitates the dropping of the umbrella, so Lonny Price instead expands his wheeled horses to such a large size that the Carousel is nonetheless stunning. Like "An American in Paris," the backdrop is primarily projections of impressionist paintings, albeit they are not quite as colourful and luscious as those in AAIP. Also on the plus side, Gavin Spokes sparkles with comic whoops, giggles, genuine depth of feeling, bringing his effortless charm to transform the typically dull Mr. Snow into such a compelling and amusing stage presence, that I delighted every time he showed up. His "When the Children are asleep" and "Geraniums in the Winder" were highlights. But an even bigger highlight, the biggest of the afternoon in fact, was Derek Hagen, as the amoral Jigger, leading the ensemble of "Blow High, Blow Low" with such vitality and passion that the audience cheered louder for him than for the principals. So thuggish and unrestrained was Hagen's bearing that it struck me he'd make a perfect Billy Bigelow! The Billy Bigelow we actually got was stillborn. It's not that Alfie Boe can't sing, he absolutely can, and at times, he does, wonderfuly. But he can't project the qualities that make Billy Bigelow Billy Bigelow! I remember Patrick Wilson playing Billy Bigelow years ago in Hytner's touring production, so animalistic, as quick to anger or to grin, terminally unpredictable, with such depth of feeling beneath, charm and charisma constantly swamped by bouts of "toxic masculinity," the hope of who he could be as evident as the hopelessness of who he was! The Perfect Billy Bigelow. There is no hope in Alfie Boe's Billy. No animalism. No spark. No grins. No volatility. No charm. No charisma. No sign of a wonderful person within, crushed by circumstance. Instead, there is sullenness and hair. So much hair. It's like Price wanted to take a shortcut to characterisation, and grew hair from all sides of Boe's face. I suppose, like Samson, this should make Boe's Bigelow toxically masculine. It doesn't. It makes him hairy. And worse, director and actor mistake unsmiling sullenness for masculinity. Wrong again, that's just lack of animation, which promotes a lack of audience involvement. In fact, the most personality that Boe evinced all afternoon was when he flubbed a line, asking if his "daughter was a boy or a girl?" then correcting himself by quipping "baby, even?" He got a big laugh. I do think the director has to take responsibility for some of the choices around Boe's Billy Bigelow, as I've seen Boe do great work, as Nanki Poo in The Mikado, in particular. Another wrong-headed choice the director makes is to allow too much of Boe's and Jenkin's singing to be directed at the audience. Billy and Julie are falling in love during "If I Love You," with EACH OTHER not with US! And the director also has to take responsibility for some of Katherine Jenkin's choices. For example, she raises her finger on the "if" of "If I love you" as if she were a tease who may withhold her love. No! The emphasis in Julie's phrase, "somehow I can see just exactly how I'd be if I loved you," is not on the "if," it is on the "loved." The "if" is there to emphasise that Julie doubts she even deserves love, the tragedy that the love she so desires to give and receive may remain an unachieved fantasy, it is not there for her to wag her finger like a scolding matron. My opinion, lol. Generally, however, Jenkins is good. I've seen the youtube clips that suggested she may struggle with the songs, and she doesn't. She thrives. In fact, with the caveat that sometimes she focuses so much on singing that she neglects performance, I thought her singing beautiful. And her performance is natural and convincing, by and large, though her range is limited. At one point she needs to cry, which requires more emotion than she can manage, so she turns away from the audience to cry with her back to us, but when she subsequently greets Boe's Billy, she fumbles her emotional transition as there is no sign in her beaming countenance that she has ever been crying at all. Still, for a first time actress, she does astonishingly well. As to the bows, Boe and Jenkins came down TOGETHER, stood together, and then Boe and Jenkins each took a separate bow, but with the other standing right next to them. This means the the bows have been modified after the scandal in a teacup about bowing order in the first show. For me, the real scandal is that Rodgers and Hammerstein didn't come rushing down from heaven for the final bow. They are the true stars! Overall, Rodgers' and Hammerstein's musical is so good, that coupled with good staging and lovely ensemble choruses, sparky players like Gavin Spokes and Derek Hagen, it overcomes it's cardboard Grizzly Adams of a Billy Bigelow. However, as an antidote to this productions' deficiencies, I have united Patrick Wilson's Billy Bigelow (from the Hytner touring production) and Gemma Sutton's saintly luminous Julie Jordan (from the recent Arcola show) to perform together in my dreams. 3 and a half stars
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Post by martin1965 on Apr 9, 2017 10:22:53 GMT
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