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Post by theatremadness on Aug 14, 2016 11:14:35 GMT
Been some interesting discussion recently of actors crying/being emotional on stage and at curtain call. Some seem it only natural after giving everything of yourself night after night for two hours, other feel it self-indulgent nonsense. Stumbled across the very interesting article below and, as if they've seen us talk about it on this board, I thought it would be good to hear it from an actors point of view! Obviously the roles discussed such as Henry V & Lady Macbeth and plays such as Cleansed may require more from an actor than roles such as Fanny Brice in Funny Girl (or maybe in some people's opinion they don't!), but this article seemed like a good chance to open up the discussion a bit further! www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/aug/11/actors-emotions-on-stage-kate-fleetwood-michelle-terry-ben-miles |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 14, 2016 11:45:29 GMT
Been some interesting discussion recently of actors crying/being emotional on stage and at curtain call. Some seem it only natural after giving everything of yourself night after night for two hours, other feel it self-indulgent nonsense. *waves*  |
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Post by Michael on Aug 14, 2016 11:49:56 GMT
Been some interesting discussion recently of actors crying/being emotional on stage and at curtain call. Some seem it only natural after giving everything of yourself night after night for two hours, other feel it self-indulgent nonsense. *waves* *joins BB in waving* |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 14, 2016 11:52:02 GMT
I can't remember which actress it was who was being interviewed about the extent of her research into the part she was playing. In the end she just said "No darling I didn't go and meet her. I'm acting it"
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 14, 2016 12:05:49 GMT
I can totally understand why actors may cry - some are quite emotionally unstable people! And the need for praise at a curtain call can, to some, be an overwhelming affirmation of their talents. And I'm not having a dig at actors, I am, as an actor myself, just speaking genuinely as I find! I've never found myself crying on stage, nor do I feel the need to go 'method' to portray a character. Very much agree with the sentiment above: "I'm acting it". Another hugely fascinating article about method acting, and how modern actors tend to use it as a way to validate how good they are and how much they've put into their award-worthy performance: www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/08/hollywood-has-ruined-method-acting/494777/ |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 12:08:16 GMT
I perform on stage all the time, both at University and otherwise and I always get overwhelmed at the end, I can't help it. Then again, as said above, I am sometimes emotionally unstable anyway haha.
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Post by DuchessConstance on Aug 14, 2016 13:19:52 GMT
I'm generally very anti-Method and a big proponent of the "but why don't you try acting it my dear boy?" school of thought, but that's not what the article is about. It doesn't matter what technique you use, emotionally you still have to go to that place and doing any kind of really emotionally intense role is utterly draining.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 14, 2016 13:24:22 GMT
I suspect the crying is acting in many cases *cough* Sheridan *cough*
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Post by longinthetooth on Aug 14, 2016 13:34:19 GMT
I can understand crying at curtain call of the first night (assuming things have gone well and they are getting a unanimous standing ovation!) and last night (for obvious reasons), but other than that I'm with the self indulgent school of thinking.
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Post by The Matthew on Aug 14, 2016 13:38:30 GMT
I've heard many stories of the cast of long-running productions playing on-stage games to relieve the boredom of doing the same thing day after day, and caught them doing it myself a couple of times. I gather that variations on tag are quite popular. It's difficult to reconcile that with the claim that it's all so emotionally demanding that they can't help but break down in tears at the end.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 13:53:10 GMT
To be fair, if I were an actor and I'd just given everyone in the audience my Bottom or my Fanny I'd be milking the applause too.
I'd cry and weep and wail and do that very humble look with hand on heart that some of them do. He'll, I'd elbow my cast members in the face to get all of the applause for myself.
I'd Sally Field it like it was my last breath.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 16:13:46 GMT
In terms of the Guardian article quoted, if memory serves the actors were firmly focused on the process of crying on stage - as in, 'the character you are playing is required to undergo a severely emotional interlude: how will you achieve this?' As someone who couldn't act for toffee, I do find that sort of thing fascinating, and it's often something that good actors are reluctant to discuss. So that article was really interesting.
I'm not sure crying at curtain call was mentioned...? But on the whole, I do tend to find that rather self-indulgent. (The odd occasion is fine - first standing ovation, last show, a beloved family member died at the weekend, etc. And there's a difference, of course, in terms of actors who take a moment to step out of character at curtain call after a gruelling show. But when you read about people welling up every night, that's a bit ridiculous.)
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Post by Jon on Aug 14, 2016 17:35:32 GMT
I perform on stage all the time, both at University and otherwise and I always get overwhelmed at the end, I can't help it. Then again, as said above, I am sometimes emotionally unstable anyway haha. Might explain the use of emoticons.... |
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Post by rumbledoll on Aug 14, 2016 18:09:09 GMT
I like what Tom Hardy said once asked on method and other types of acting and which he prefers to use. His answer was: "There's only two types of acting - convincing and non-convincing."
I can't agree more - it is *that* simple. I don't really care how an actor gets to the state when he makes his performance believable for me as a member of the audience as long as I can feel it.
Thanks for the articles - would be interesting to read.
And I can't say I see actors cry at curtain calls a lot. Just special occasions - last nights, standing ovation for understudy, etc. |
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 14, 2016 21:42:18 GMT
Strange how some here can't understand how acting is directly allied with strong emotion. Without it there is no truthful performance or reaction, just shallowness and 'indicating'.
The only difference is between those who can turn it on and off and those who have to live with it to be able to perform well. Even within that there are grey areas and extremes. It takes all sorts and nobody should be denigrated as inferior because of that.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 14, 2016 23:02:37 GMT
Strange how some here can't understand how acting is directly allied with strong emotion. Without it there is no truthful performance or reaction, just shallowness and 'indicating'. The only difference is between those who can turn it on and off and those who have to live with it to be able to perform well. Even within that there are grey areas and extremes. It takes all sorts and nobody should be denigrated as inferior because of that. Strange how some can't just accept that some people are just acting. And no-one is denigrating anyone. Cheer up. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Aug 15, 2016 12:10:49 GMT
I do struggle to understand why those who have never worked in theatre are so sniffy towards the people creating the thing they so avidly consume. Not just talking about crying but a lot of things that get raised here.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 15, 2016 12:30:24 GMT
Strange how some here can't understand how acting is directly allied with strong emotion. Without it there is no truthful performance or reaction, just shallowness and 'indicating'. The only difference is between those who can turn it on and off and those who have to live with it to be able to perform well. Even within that there are grey areas and extremes. It takes all sorts and nobody should be denigrated as inferior because of that. Strange how some can't just accept that some people are just acting. And no-one is denigrating anyone. Cheer up. Well, you may watch it but you don't appear to understand what you are watching. There is no such thing as 'just acting'. You can also look back and check who is being denigrated, or maybe you were 'just typing'. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 15, 2016 13:00:28 GMT
Strange how some can't just accept that some people are just acting. And no-one is denigrating anyone. Cheer up. Well, you may watch it but you don't appear to understand what you are watching. There is no such thing as 'just acting'. You can also look back and check who is being denigrated, or maybe you were 'just typing'. There's no such thing as 'just acting' lol. Ok!  |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Aug 15, 2016 13:46:22 GMT
Have you ever acted professionally?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 15, 2016 13:46:53 GMT
As someone who has had and continues to have a number of students at the top Drama schools (design as well as acting) I do actually have a solid background in this. Even the untrained actor is unknowingly using techniques that a trained actor has spent years on. There is such a thing as raw talent but by observation, if not training, they are utilising it. Generally this has been Stanislavski or post-Stanislavski based but increasingly the people who you seem to believe are 'just acting' have trained in Lecoq, for example. When you look in programme bios and it says 'trained at x', there's years of hard work that that phrase represents.
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Post by The Matthew on Aug 15, 2016 14:45:19 GMT
I do struggle to understand why those who have never worked in theatre are so sniffy towards the people creating the thing they so avidly consume. Not just talking about crying but a lot of things that get raised here. I grew up on the fringes of a show business family, so although I love theatre and cinema I've never thought of the people who create it as anything special and I do get so very tired of performers who vastly overstate their own significance to the world. I've met more than a few people who decide, without ever bothering to find out anything about me, that the fact that I don't work in theatre myself means I absolutely must think myself the most privileged person who ever lived to actually have the opportunity to be in the presence of a real live actor. So when I hear performers talk as if their work makes them unique and special it all seems more than a little pretentious and self-indulgent. Old joke: Two actors, strangers, are introduced by a mutual friend at a party. They shake hands, and the first says "It's a great honour." "For me, too" responds the second graciously. And the first replies "I meant for you." |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 15:02:44 GMT
I don't think it's a binary between "ACTORS ARE GODLIKE CREATURES WHOSE EVERY MOVE IS A BLESSING TO HUMANITY" and "acting's nothing more than just pretending nice work if you can get it lol". Sure, actors are people too who aren't any more elevated than the rest of us just because of their profession, but at the same time, it is a profession at which you have to work extremely hard and be extremely dedicated to if you want to be a success at it. Surely we can reach the middle ground, and acknowledge their ordinary humanity while also accepting that acting on a professional level is a little more involved than just saying the lines and not bumping into furniture?  |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Aug 15, 2016 15:39:21 GMT
But who is saying anything about actors being special?? I've not seen a single word about that. It's simply actors answering questions about how they do their job honestly, and people who have never done that job and don't know anything about what it involves taking pointless offence at the idea that someone who does a particular job for a living might actually know what it involves and use techniques that they know work for them.
Really, how is it remotely anyone's business how someone does their job, as long as they do it?
If I met someone who was an engineer or a plumber or a surgeon, I'd never dream of telling them they were doing it all wrong and that I knew best. You wouldn't tell a surgeon about to take someone's appendix out "pfft you don't need training or any silly plan, why don't you just try cutting them up you pretentious wally?"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 15:42:53 GMT
As far as I can tell, no one *is* saying that actors think they're super-special, I think that's just a projection on the part of the "acting isn't anything special" side of the discussion.  |
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Post by The Matthew on Aug 15, 2016 17:00:34 GMT
But who is saying anything about actors being special?? I've not seen a single word about that. It's simply actors answering questions about how they do their job honestly, and people who have never done that job and don't know anything about what it involves taking pointless offence at the idea that someone who does a particular job for a living might actually know what it involves and use techniques that they know work for them. Really, how is it remotely anyone's business how someone does their job, as long as they do it? Because they don't just do the job. They make a big deal of it. You are making a big deal of it, saying how utterly draining it is and asking people if they're actors as if mere muggles can't possibly understand the world of theatre. The fact that actors feel the need to tell people about how much they think they go through is making a big deal of it. You asked why people were "sniffy", as if they had no right to be unimpressed by actors. I explained, in general terms rather than specifically in reference to this thread, why I view actors as ordinary people and why I get annoyed when they treat me as if I have no right to have grown up in an environment that led to that view. Right there in that quote above you say "people who have never done that job and don't know anything about what it involves". That right there is exactly the "we're so special" attitude I'm talking about. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Aug 15, 2016 17:13:37 GMT
Don't be ridiculous, giving interviews is part of an actor's job. Often it is part of their contract. Giving the odd interview is not "making a big deal about it". Why are you even reading their interviews, if you think actors should stfu?
I asked if they were an actor in direct response to people posting their (pretty derogatory and mocking) opinions on specific acting techniques, which is a perfectly reasonable response. If someone started spouting off about the best way to install a boiler and mocking anyone who uses X plumbing technique, it would be perfectly reasonable to say "but have you actually ever installed a boiler?"
Stating that someone who's never done a particular job is less well-informed about what that job involves than those who do it for a living is not remotely superior. There are countless millions of jobs I've never done, and I would never dream of insisting I know those jobs better than those who do them professionally. If I were a professional plumber and someone who'd never even changed a stopcock was mocking me and insisting they know more about plumbing that me, I'd say the exact same thing.
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 15, 2016 17:28:24 GMT
Interestingly enough, yet another article has popped up discussing things in a similar vein. "How Does A Demanding Role Take Its Toll" from Playbill. Tyler Lea (Curious Incident), Jessica Hecht (Fiddler), John Owen Jones (Les Mis) and Beth Malone (Fun Home) discuss their pre & post-show rituals and how they cope with their emotionally taxing roles. Favourite quote from Audrey Hepburn (via Jessica Hecht): "“There was this great Audrey Hepburn quote when someone said to her ‘God, you play such complex parts, how do you work through it? Do you go to therapy?’ She said, ‘No that’s why I don’t go to therapy because I play all these parts.’" www.playbill.com/article/how-does-a-demanding-role-take-its-toll |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 15, 2016 18:12:24 GMT
No one has said that actors don't or can't get emotionally involved in the part, although I would suggest that someone playing a small speaking role in EastEnders doesn't have to go home and get big hugs and "talk things out" with their beloved every night. "Darling it was terrible, Peggy told me to get out of her pub and it brought things Back with such.... such... I was like a child again". Do me a favour. I think that is definitely "just acting" (even though there's apparently no such thing). So maybe we can agree that the very best acting may require the actor to invest beyond remembering the lines and applying a veneer of realism to them. Maybe.
As for me "denigrating" Sheridan by suggesting her tears every single night might be as much affectation as emotion (because I assume that was a dig at me, Cardinal) sorry but I think that is part of her shtick. Everything she does is emotional, and she plays up to that. Funny Girl is a piece of fluff and to suggest that she's been emotionally affected by a repetition of it every single night is unconvincing. I might be wrong, but that's my opinion and if it's denigrating her then so be it.
I still maintain my point from another thread that as professionals I expect professionalism from actors. And hundreds, thousands of them play incredibly emotional parts on stages all over the world every night without finding it necessary to allow themselves to break down at the curtain call. Here's a tip. Even if you feel like breaking down, don't.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 19:10:42 GMT
I'm struggling to see why war has broken out over this. I think most people have basically acknowledged that good actors do clever things on stage to make us believe them. Whether they're truly deeply feeling the emotion in that moment or not.
Where some opinions seem to diverge is on the expression of deep emotion/histrionics at curtain call. Just as we can disagree over whether we find an actor emotionally believable in a moment of high drama in a play, surely we can disagree on whether we buy floods of tears at curtain call?
Personally, I prefer a simple smile at curtain call or, if the occasion calls for it, a genuine grin. Captures the sense of achievement nicely, acknowledges the audience's reaction, doesn't scream 'Look at me, still emoting!'
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