1,037 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 11:28:34 GMT
Post by jgblunners on Aug 7, 2017 11:28:34 GMT
Who wouldn't want 15 minutes of belting A New Argentina from a multitude of Eva's all in one video? Of course you do, you're only human! Well, looks like taking it down the octave is less common than I thought it was! Whoever said it before was right, it completely loses the thrill and impact when it's not sung it that high octave. (also I've never seen or heard the film version but from that short clip it's quite shocking how far down it was transposed for Madonna)
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18,811 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 7, 2017 11:59:40 GMT
Judging by that lot, most of them SHOULD have taken it down because about 80% of them made my ears bleed. There's certainly plenty of attack though, I suppose you just have to go for it with everything you've got, and hope for the best. What was it Patti said about ALW hating women for writing that score? Say what you like about Madonna, there was no-one who could have carried that movie off back then, and there's no one who could carry it off today. The fact that she won the Golden Globe but didn't even get nommed for the Oscar just shows the academy up for the dreadful bias against her. She was robbed.
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 12:01:27 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 12:01:27 GMT
I think they took the entire score down for Madge didn't they? She really does look the part but as an actress she's as wooden as a floorboard and vocally she's pretty rotten. The film looks gorgeous though. Would have been interesting to have had original choices Meryl Streep or Michelle Pfeiffer in the role. The score would have been adjusted for both of them too of course.
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449 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 12:07:54 GMT
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Post by SageStageMgr on Aug 7, 2017 12:07:54 GMT
LOVE Madonna in the movie. She's brilliant.
It's very easy to be snobbish about her in this, but Streep/Streisand would've been intolerable for me personally.
Banderas is also terrific, then the outstanding supporting performances from Jonathan Pryce, Peter Poly, even Jimmy Nail(!). It's a joy
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 12:08:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 12:08:22 GMT
Say what you like about Madonna, there was no-one who could have carried that movie off back then, and there's no one who could carry it off today. The fact that she won the Golden Globe but didn't even get nommed for the Oscar just shows the academy up for the dreadful bias against her. She was robbed.She really wasn't. The award is Best Actress, Madge can't act. She sang the score perfectly well but she's completely dead behind the eyes. There was only mediocre acting talent on show there. And there was no way that she was better than or as good as Frances McDormand, Brenda Blethyn, Diane Keaton, Kristin Scott Thomas or Emily Watson.
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18,811 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 12:12:23 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 7, 2017 12:12:23 GMT
I totally disagree. That's the only acting performance she's ever given where she WAS good. As for Emily What? Frances McWho? And Brenda Blethyn, great at crying but that's about your lot
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on Aug 7, 2017 12:25:07 GMT
Ryan, that list was a veritable 'who's that' of Hollywood.
I think Greta Garbo should've won.
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647 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 12:28:02 GMT
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Post by ptwest on Aug 7, 2017 12:28:02 GMT
Agreed - she was good In Evita. Usually her acting career is something that as a fan I like to pretend doesn't exist but this is one I can watch!
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 12:33:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 12:33:32 GMT
I love that 15-minute compilation, watched it yesterday just before I posted^^
Below is the lowered version, sung by Louise Dearman on tour (currently the West End Evas don't even attempt to sing the last chorus the way it was written, unlike Ms Dearman):
I'm sure there's more than enough ladies in the West End who would nail this part vocally. Shame they don't have the chance to do that.
[Also, Mods – feel free to delete the link from my post if it violates the rules of the forum. Thanks]
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2,452 posts
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Post by theatremadness on Aug 7, 2017 12:49:35 GMT
Who wouldn't want 15 minutes of belting A New Argentina from a multitude of Eva's all in one video? Of course you do, you're only human! Well, looks like taking it down the octave is less common than I thought it was! Whoever said it before was right, it completely loses the thrill and impact when it's not sung it that high octave. (also I've never seen or heard the film version but from that short clip it's quite shocking how far down it was transposed for Madonna) So from what I can gather, that particular passage that is repeated in that clip is where most Eva's will sing it up the octave, as you'd expect. That "he supports you" phrase is heard twice (I think) in A New Argentina before you get to that final one, and it's there I believe that most Eva's keep it down the octave, ever since the Kenwright production started, anyhow. I'm sure it's to preserve their voice so as to not sing that hard phrase 3 times in quick succession. I know I quoted you jgblunners but the rest is just my opinion, not directed and you or anyone! haha. No one bar no one has the robust vocal stamina of Patti LuPone so in my eyes, it's a little unfair to compare. We were spoiled with her being one of the very first!! I saw the tour twice, one with Emma Hatton and once with Natalie Langston. I could've sworn that they both followed that pattern in A New Argentina: first 2 high phrases sung down the octave, final one sung up. However, when I saw it in London last week, Emma sang down the octave the whole time. So I'm not sure, it could be a show-by-show basis. Seth Rudetsky once said that Patti LuPone had said that she knew if she was going to have a good vocal show by "screw the middle classes", so I'm sure the women know their own voices well enough to know what they have to do to get through Evita! And moving onto the other conversation about Madonna, I started watching the film a couple of nights ago for the very first time. It's really enjoyable and well made with great performances, Madge included in my opinion. They obviously needed her to carry the film off and that she did. It's a very understated performance and let's not forget that Eva was not a nice person by any means. I don't think Madge plays it wooden, but more ruthless. I really don't care that the keys were transposed for her. It works much better on film to not have her belting her tits off and the lower keys help establish Madonna's more subtle take on the role. The supporting cast are also great, some of the song changes are a little weird but it all works in the end.
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 13:49:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 13:49:18 GMT
Ryan, that list was a veritable 'who's that' of Hollywood. I think Greta Garbo should've won. Ummmm, OK. I'd think the 12 Oscar nominations between them would suggest that this wasn't the case but hey ho.
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 13:53:59 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 13:53:59 GMT
I first saw Evita at the Dominion in 2014 and hated, and I mean HATED it.
Marti Pellow was on for Che, and every single line he mumbled to the floor, I never managed to understand an entire sentence, from time to time I'd catch an "Evita" or a "Peron" and that was it. I had to look at Wikipedia afterwards to work out what I'd just seen; the synopsis was littered with things like "Che explains to the audience" or "Che reveals" and as I'd spent 2 and a half hours watching him walk backwards down stairs while making incoherent noises, the show might as well have been about a rich woman who goes on holiday to Buenos Aires and spends the vast majority of act 2 dying painfully slowly.
Madalena had a lovely voice but the set design, the sound design and the general feel of the piece was abysmal, and I assured myself that as long as I lived I'd never go and see Evita again.
I've heard some good things about this production though and I gather it's quite different to the Dominion one? I remember West End Wilma gave that 1 star but I'm seeing lots of 4 and 5 stars reviews this time around, and I was wondering if it's worth going to see it again now that nobody with any connection to the 2014 production is there any more. People's thoughts are very welcome.
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4,962 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 13:57:15 GMT
Post by TallPaul on Aug 7, 2017 13:57:15 GMT
One of the reasons that Marti left Wet Wet Wet was so he could throw himself into his acting career!
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449 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 14:09:51 GMT
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Post by SageStageMgr on Aug 7, 2017 14:09:51 GMT
Don't be fooled, Martello.
This production originated in Liverpool in 2008. It then toured for about three years in the U.K. and abroad. Then reopened, being basically identical and doing a stint in town.
Now the same production is touring again. The sets are same, the direction is the same (with the odd change here and there, but nothing your average punter would notice), the lighting design is the same, it's all the same. The cast is the one thing that actually changes between "productions".
This production is identical to the one you saw in 2014, unless you find looking at differently stitched costumes, new paper props or the altered placement of three par cans to be a "new production".
I'm not knocking Kenwright for this, if it works and sells, why change it. But it's the same as the original BKP production from 9 years ago. It's a new production in name only.
Considering that, you'd probably hate it.
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18,811 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 7, 2017 15:30:29 GMT
I don't know why there's so much hate for the design, especially if you compare it to most of the ones in the 15 minute clip from earlier today.
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449 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 15:56:40 GMT
Post by SageStageMgr on Aug 7, 2017 15:56:40 GMT
I don't know why there's so much hate for the design, especially if you compare it to most of the ones in the 15 minute clip from earlier today. I didn't say I hated the design. In fact I said I rather liked the tour.
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18,811 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 16:23:19 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 7, 2017 16:23:19 GMT
I don't know why there's so much hate for the design, especially if you compare it to most of the ones in the 15 minute clip from earlier today. I didn't say I hated the design. In fact I said I rather liked the tour. I was referring to Martello's comments and others earlier in the thread.
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851 posts
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Post by longinthetooth on Aug 7, 2017 16:29:50 GMT
I had never seen Evita until the Dominion, as mentioned by Martello - but I absolutely loved it (Pellow apart - I'm sure I read something somewhere that said the trees in nearby Soho Square were less wooden). No accounting for tastes1
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18,811 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 7, 2017 17:07:51 GMT
The thing is, we've all been here before. For some people who have seen the original west end productions then nothing else will ever compare. I remember my first spat with someone in the old forum (might have been mr Barnaby) was about the first Priscilla tour and the perception that it must be crap because there wasn't a 'proper' bus. Well I saw it and the bus wasn't a full bus but it made no difference to the fact that it was a fabulous, joyful production. I never saw the west end Evita either and, hear this. I DONT CARE. Because like generations of future theatregoers, no matter how brilliant it might have been, it's now history. And ancient history at that. And the number of people who did see it gets fewer every year and SOON YOULL ALL BE DEAD! These tours are bringing shows to people around the country who are just as discerning as the west end audience, (more so, if some of the goings on in London are anything to judge by) and the sneery, pompous attitude that touring productions are intrinsically rubbish is just blatant elitism and rampant snobbery. Unless you're a theatre owner, or a producer, you don't actually know what stacks up financially and if you did you'd be doing the job yourself. So get over 'yo self! There. BBx Disclaimer: none of the above applies to Kenwrights Spamalot tour which it's truly f****** hideous. I thank yow!
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on Aug 7, 2017 19:03:59 GMT
So we're agreed the Grandage revival is the only production of Evita anyone is allowed to like.
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Aug 7, 2017 19:18:23 GMT
This needs to be broken down. Yes, There are less and less people around who will remember the original version- however, the original Hal Prince version is iconic, and there is a good reason why puritans will only accept this version and think that others are inferior.
I have to disagree with you regarding the quality of the tours though. The tours making the regional circuit in England is certainly not up to West End standards in MOST cases. With exception to Cameron Mackintosh's work, and a few handpicked productions (Matilda comes to mind, and a few of Sonia Friedman's productions as well), the majority of musicals traveling around are extremely second rate, and in no way on the same par as the shows that played in London before going on tour. Unlike US tours were some elements might be downsized or scaled down, they tend to maintain the same quality and essence you'll see on Broadway, in most cases at least. In the UK though, you have third class imitation shows of Hairspray, Adams Family, Wedding Singer or Shrek that are quite second tier, and wouldn't dream of showing their face in a London stage. The only reason Evita dares, is because it's Evita.
Your comment about what stacks up financially is a different conversation. As end users and customers, we're not talking about the business case or financial success of these shows. We're simply talking about their artistic merit and quality, which is lacking on both counts.
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18,811 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Aug 7, 2017 19:44:49 GMT
But not everything is, or has to be the same as the "iconic" original. Who made that law?
If you insist that everything after the original is inferior, and can't be allowed to be seen then the show will die.
Your attitude to this production of Evita screams snobbery and elitism. Your post above and earlier in this thread does nothing to dispel that. I don't know why you're going to see it, given that you seem to be looking forward to slamming it.
Do you think that every show should remain only in the west end, or should only be allowed to tour if the production values that existed in the west end can be sustained? Do you realise what that would do to British (outside London) theatre. Seriously?
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1,871 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 20:43:19 GMT
Post by distantcousin on Aug 7, 2017 20:43:19 GMT
Well, looks like taking it down the octave is less common than I thought it was! Whoever said it before was right, it completely loses the thrill and impact when it's not sung it that high octave. (also I've never seen or heard the film version but from that short clip it's quite shocking how far down it was transposed for Madonna) So from what I can gather, that particular passage that is repeated in that clip is where most Eva's will sing it up the octave, as you'd expect. That "he supports you" phrase is heard twice (I think) in A New Argentina before you get to that final one, and it's there I believe that most Eva's keep it down the octave, ever since the Kenwright production started, anyhow. I'm sure it's to preserve their voice so as to not sing that hard phrase 3 times in quick succession. I know I quoted you jgblunners but the rest is just my opinion, not directed and you or anyone! haha. No one bar no one has the robust vocal stamina of Patti LuPone so in my eyes, it's a little unfair to compare. We were spoiled with her being one of the very first!! I saw the tour twice, one with Emma Hatton and once with Natalie Langston. I could've sworn that they both followed that pattern in A New Argentina: first 2 high phrases sung down the octave, final one sung up. However, when I saw it in London last week, Emma sang down the octave the whole time. So I'm not sure, it could be a show-by-show basis. Seth Rudetsky once said that Patti LuPone had said that she knew if she was going to have a good vocal show by "screw the middle classes", so I'm sure the women know their own voices well enough to know what they have to do to get through Evita! And moving onto the other conversation about Madonna, I started watching the film a couple of nights ago for the very first time. It's really enjoyable and well made with great performances, Madge included in my opinion. They obviously needed her to carry the film off and that she did. It's a very understated performance and let's not forget that Eva was not a nice person by any means. I don't think Madge plays it wooden, but more ruthless. I really don't care that the keys were transposed for her. It works much better on film to not have her belting her tits off and the lower keys help establish Madonna's more subtle take on the role. The supporting cast are also great, some of the song changes are a little weird but it all works in the end. You're right - and Alan Parker said himself at the time that the keys were lowered for most of the score (Eva, Che and other roles) because it would have come across as too shouty and overbearing on a massive cinema screen.
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1,871 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 20:47:53 GMT
Post by distantcousin on Aug 7, 2017 20:47:53 GMT
Can anyone tell me if La Hatton does all performances?
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488 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 21:48:52 GMT
Post by AliceFearnFan2212 on Aug 7, 2017 21:48:52 GMT
Can anyone tell me if La Hatton does all performances? She does every show apart from Monday
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3,927 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 21:55:57 GMT
Post by Dawnstar on Aug 7, 2017 21:55:57 GMT
Who is now the alternate Eva? I gather Natalie Langston isn't doing the London run. Has the understudy been promoted or has a new alternate been bought in?
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1,906 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 22:00:18 GMT
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Post by LaLuPone on Aug 7, 2017 22:00:18 GMT
Who is now the alternate Eva? I gather Natalie Langston isn't doing the London run. Has the understudy been promoted or has a new alternate been bought in? Natalie is doing the London run, it seemed at one point she wasn't but from her social media it looks like she is.
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2,763 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 22:02:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by daniel on Aug 7, 2017 22:02:10 GMT
Natalie Langston is indeed alternate for the London run - not sure what her scheduled performances are!
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3,927 posts
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 7, 2017 22:02:45 GMT
Natalie is doing the London run, it seemed at one point she wasn't but from her social media it looks like she is. Oh, right. She wasn't on the cast list when the London cast were announced so I'd assumed she wasn't doing it. I may have to try to finally see her Eva, having not managed to do so back in 2011.
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2,452 posts
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Evita
Aug 7, 2017 22:12:12 GMT
Post by theatremadness on Aug 7, 2017 22:12:12 GMT
Natalie is doing the London run, it seemed at one point she wasn't but from her social media it looks like she is. Oh, right. She wasn't on the cast list when the London cast were announced so I'd assumed she wasn't doing it. I may have to try to finally see her Eva, having not managed to do so back in 2011. You're right, she wasn't announced initially - I think some kinks were still being worked out - but her name is on the poster outside the theatre, so yes she's 100% in it. Natalie was on tonight so worth keeping an eye on Monday's as a possibility for her scheduled show, as per what AFF said!
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