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Post by talkingheads on Jul 14, 2023 8:39:31 GMT
So, Hollywood is dark. Nothing can be made or written. Really glad this is happening, its about time the studios got a harsh lesson from the people who actually make them money.
First time both the actors union and the Writer's Guild have gone on strike simultaneously since 1960.
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Post by teamyali on Jul 14, 2023 9:27:05 GMT
Although live theatre has a different union in the US (AEA or Actors’ Equity Association), while Equity in the UK represents both screen and stage actors, both associations mentioned are in solidarity with SAG-AFTRA even if they won’t join the strike (especially the UK has anti-strike laws, so actors of HBO’s House of the Dragon will still continue filming despite some of their principal cast members be both part of Equity and SAG-AFTRA).
I see discussions in Reddit and BroadwayWorld forum that with the strike, Broadway (and maybe West End as well) would be more accustomed to do more celebrity castings since the celebs cannot do screen work at the moment and doing a theatre stint is a good thing. However, others fear that star and stunt castings will squeeze out seasoned theatre performers who will be in competition for roles with the celebs. Therefore, ticket prices will increase again, then people complain, then the cycle goes on…
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 14, 2023 10:12:40 GMT
Good to see cillian Murphy, Blunt, Damon and Branagh not scabbing a couple of nights ago
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Post by Jon on Jul 14, 2023 10:35:35 GMT
Good to see cillian Murphy, Blunt, Damon and Branagh not scabbing a couple of nights ago Technically speaking, they did attend but only until then strike was verified did they leave. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 14, 2023 10:43:48 GMT
Although live theatre has a different union in the US (AEA or Actors’ Equity Association), while Equity in the UK represents both screen and stage actors, both associations mentioned are in solidarity with SAG-AFTRA even if they won’t join the strike (especially the UK has anti-strike laws, so actors of HBO’s House of the Dragon will still continue filming despite some of their principal cast members be both part of Equity and SAG-AFTRA). I see discussions in Reddit and BroadwayWorld forum that with the strike, Broadway (and maybe West End as well) would be more accustomed to do more celebrity castings since the celebs cannot do screen work at the moment and doing a theatre stint is a good thing. However, others fear that star and stunt castings will squeeze out seasoned theatre performers who will be in competition for roles with the celebs. Therefore, ticket prices will increase again, then people complain, then the cycle goes on… UK actors can still work on films and TV shows which aren't part of the SAG purview as well so something like Paddington in Peru which has a mostly British cast but more importantly made by Studiocanal can continue. |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 14, 2023 13:34:47 GMT
They're halting filming on Ridley Scott's Gladiator 2 too, which has been filming on massive sets in Malta with a European/UK & US cast. They had already reportedly delayed the start date of filming to accommodate Mescal's Streetcar West End run. Given the heat round the Med right now, a pause might be a relief!
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Post by maggiem on Jul 14, 2023 13:36:52 GMT
I'd love to see a few re releases of movies. I know that Netflix put money up for this one, but I was disgusted with the brief big-screen release of Glass Onion, and I'd happily watch it again.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 14, 2023 13:45:28 GMT
It might give some overlooked TV shows a chance to shine too - and I wonder if Netflix are now regretting their stupid decision to axe the UK-made Lockwood and Co after one, well received, series?
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Post by Jon on Jul 14, 2023 14:19:17 GMT
I'd love to see a few re releases of movies. I know that Netflix put money up for this one, but I was disgusted with the brief big-screen release of Glass Onion, and I'd happily watch it again. The film slate for the rest of 2023 will be unaffected and I would say even 2024 should be okay because a lot of 2024 films have either wrapped or in post production such as Snow White, Furiosa and the sequel to Joker. |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 14, 2023 14:57:17 GMT
The film slate for the rest of 2023 will be unaffected They can't have the cast doing red carpet premieres, the round of publicity interviews, fan conventions and the like though. Would the studios want to launch them without that? And there's the whole employment knock-on from that of photoshoots, magazine interviews, fashion spreads... |
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Post by David J on Jul 14, 2023 15:02:34 GMT
Commenting on the writers strike. I've been listening to commentaries like this from youtube channels like Clownfish TV.
Thing is, a lot has changed since the 2007-8 writers strike.
Movie studios learnt from that and now have movies in pre-production in the pipeline to keep us entertained. TV channels also have more popular shows from the last decade to put on repeat.
The fact that they are prepared to negotiate with directors and actors first says a lot. A lot of directors are also writing their own shows/movies these days so they are considered more important than the writers themselves.
There's also the fact that economy isn't in a good place and Hollywood in general is not doing very well. There's been a number of box office bombs this summer. It's poor timing to go on strike during an economic downturn, with frankly unrealistic demands, because the writers have now put a target on their heads. Hundreds of journalists alone are getting laid off at the moment.
Companies like Netflix has also been relying on good cheap foreign films from places like Korea. Films that are more interested in telling a story than driving through a message or agenda. Would you rather pay to have a killer film like Squid Game on your streaming website or more expensive projects back home that may or may not succeed.
The elephant in the room however is AI. Hollywood is gradually relying on AI to generate a general script and then you only need one or two people to spruce it up.
And when the writers union is demanding 10-20 writers and a certain make-up in the writers room at one time, Hollywood is going to look at that and scoff at it. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Many of the most popular and well received shows were the result of one of two people's vision.
And given the decreasing quality in film scripts over the past few years I have less sympathy for a lot of these writers. Inevitably the writing jobs will shrink and Hollywood is going to rely on a few writers who can deliver quality scripts.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 14, 2023 15:28:59 GMT
And when the writers union is demanding 10-20 writers and a certain make-up in the writers room at one time, Hollywood is going to look at that and scoff at it. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Many of the most popular and well received shows were the result of one of two people's vision. And given the decreasing quality in film scripts over the past few years I have less sympathy for a lot of these writers. Inevitably the writing jobs will shrink and Hollywood is going to rely on a few writers who can deliver quality scripts. Agree on this to some extent - Hollywood now is a shadow of its former self creatively, mostly turning out films which could just as well have been written by AI: feed a bunch of old Star Wars toys or Marvel comics plus 'Save the Cat' into a script generator and away you go, or remake your cartoons as live action or vice versa. Barbie and Oppenheimer will likely be the tentpole films of the year and the first of them is yet another toybox movie. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 14, 2023 15:40:02 GMT
And when the writers union is demanding 10-20 writers and a certain make-up in the writers room at one time, Hollywood is going to look at that and scoff at it. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Many of the most popular and well received shows were the result of one of two people's vision. And given the decreasing quality in film scripts over the past few years I have less sympathy for a lot of these writers. Inevitably the writing jobs will shrink and Hollywood is going to rely on a few writers who can deliver quality scripts. Agree on this to some extent - Hollywood now is a shadow of its former self creatively, mostly turning out films which could just as well have been written by AI: feed a bunch of old Star Wars toys or Marvel comics plus 'Save the Cat' into a script generator and away you go, or remake your cartoons as live action or vice versa. Barbie and Oppenheimer will likely be the tentpole films of the year and the first of them is yet another toybox movie. Nothing wrong with using IP, people seem to think Hollywood was an originality factory which has never been the case. I do think people here don't realise it's called Show Business for a reason. |
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Post by adrianics on Jul 14, 2023 16:06:12 GMT
It's been very illuminating doing reading into the reasons behind the strikes. I kind of naively thought that once you were a recurring character on a popular tv show you were pretty much set for life, then I read an article about Orange is the New Black where central actors were earning $900 a day and had to supplement their income on the show with day jobs where they kept getting recognised. It looks like streaming comes with some enormous loopholes where studios don't have to make viewing numbers public, which makes residuals pretty much non-existent - the writer of a She-Hulk episode said on Twitter that they've earned about $3 in residuals - and means they can really lowball the actors.
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Post by David J on Jul 14, 2023 17:12:00 GMT
Agree on this to some extent - Hollywood now is a shadow of its former self creatively, mostly turning out films which could just as well have been written by AI: feed a bunch of old Star Wars toys or Marvel comics plus 'Save the Cat' into a script generator and away you go, or remake your cartoons as live action or vice versa. Barbie and Oppenheimer will likely be the tentpole films of the year and the first of them is yet another toybox movie. Nothing wrong with using IP, people seem to think Hollywood was an originality factory which has never been the case. I do think people here don't realise it's called Show Business for a reason. True, but its what you you do with the IP that is the growing issue. This year has had a string of films based on existing IP that are underperforming or worse bombing. Indiana Jones, Little Mermaid, The Flash (and I thought that would do well with Michael Keaton's Batman returning), Dungeons and Dragons, Ant Man 2, Shazam 2. And there are a number of issues why these aren't doing well, but I think the quality of the writing and production is certainly one of the main factors. An issue that has been going on for a few years now (you only have to look at the declining quality of Marvel's films and tv series since Endgame) and general audiences have caught on to that The ones that are doing well like Puss in Boots 2, Mario, Spiderverse 2, and now Mission Impossible. They may or not be the best films of all time but audiences are going to them because they focus on strong story telling, are stylish, and are catering to those audiences. Hollywood hired too many writers recently, especially during the pandemic when they wanted to get content out on their streaming services. Writers who produced content of mixed quality. Now the low box office numbers are biting Hollywood's ass. These writers on strike should really be focusing on proving why they should stay in a job in the next couple of months. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2023 0:57:44 GMT
The 26 part series American sitcoms/dramas will need a lot of writers to deliver the required amount of screenplay text on time but films in theory can have as many or as few writers as required. Books are only written by one person mainly and so are plays so do films have to be any different?
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Post by sukhavati on Jul 18, 2023 6:35:23 GMT
It's been very illuminating doing reading into the reasons behind the strikes. I kind of naively thought that once you were a recurring character on a popular tv show you were pretty much set for life, then I read an article about Orange is the New Black where central actors were earning $900 a day and had to supplement their income on the show with day jobs where they kept getting recognised. It looks like streaming comes with some enormous loopholes where studios don't have to make viewing numbers public, which makes residuals pretty much non-existent - the writer of a She-Hulk episode said on Twitter that they've earned about $3 in residuals - and means they can really lowball the actors. One of the huge problems is streaming - there is no transparency as to audience numbers. Netflix and the other platforms don't release figures, so other than corporate, there's no specific information for SAG to know how many eyes are on an actor, how many repeats. The traditional contracts for broadcast television stipulate a fee structure depending on what type of show, first, second run, then syndication. This is why there's such a disparity in residuals between film, television, and streaming.
Another issue that I haven't seen discussed much is that the studios want to take scans of the background performers (extras), pay them for the single day they work, and then the studio will have the rights to the actor's likeness and be able to reuse it whenever in any project of their choice without the actor's consent over the content of future projects. This would essentially put an entire group of performers out of work after a time once their likeness is scanned on a single project. SAG took over the Screen Extra's Guild as a way to create a pathway into union membership. As it is, 60 percent of union membership is out of work at any given time. An individual must earn at least $26K per year to qualify for SAG's medical insurance.
The AI issue kind of overlaps deep fakes. If you've ever used the Reface app, you know how easily and quickly your likeness can replace a film star on that platform. Like everyone else, I was bored out of my mind during lockdown, and played with Reface, shocked at how easily it transposed my face onto Elizabeth Taylor's and Julie Andrews' faces. The technology already exists. Corporate Hollywood is risk averse and looking to maximize profits. Using AI to create non-human background players is going to save money when it comes to paying performers. I'm sure they'll find a way to create templates for the bodies and costuming (pity the poor, overworked EFX people) to create more efficiencies at the expense of union/guild members.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 18, 2023 8:54:55 GMT
The AI issue kind of overlaps deep fakes. If you've ever used the Reface app, you know how easily and quickly your likeness can replace a film star on that platform. Like everyone else, I was bored out of my mind during lockdown, and played with Reface, shocked at how easily it transposed my face onto Elizabeth Taylor's and Julie Andrews' faces. The technology already exists. Corporate Hollywood is risk averse and looking to maximize profits. Using AI to create non-human background players is going to save money when it comes to paying performers. I'm sure they'll find a way to create templates for the bodies and costuming (pity the poor, overworked EFX people) to create more efficiencies at the expense of union/guild members. It won't happen, but Hollywood needs a clear out and reset: creatively much of it is a stagnant pond, hugely focussed on old IP. The remake culture will be screwed when we can simply do it ourselves through AI, which is probably not that far off. How many years before we can simply enter a storyline, setting, actors whose faces we like, even friends and family, into a film generator and up it pops? Just looking at all those 'Lord of the Rings if it was Wes Anderson' things a few weeks ago, or the current ad for the women's football refacing female players with male (it's a feminist ad - though one feels the same could be done with movies in those regions where women's faces are forbidden to be seen). To quote a line from the old cartoon LOTR, that's doom's footstep for a sector of the industry, the part that has relied so heavily on 'toybox' movies rather than the sort of serious fare for mature audiences that Hollywood was built on in the 20thc. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 18, 2023 11:06:54 GMT
I think people need to be realistic, we're not going to see the tentpoles in Hollywood abandoned in favour of smaller productions. Spectacle has been part of Hollywood since the days of Gone with the Wind and The Ten Commandments.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 18, 2023 22:55:11 GMT
Indies like David Lowery's are being given the go ahead to carry on production.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2023 22:58:42 GMT
With all this talk of AI is there anything to stop a studio getting the agreement of a deceased performer's estate and using that likeness in films?
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Post by David J on Jul 18, 2023 23:06:20 GMT
With all this talk of AI is there anything to stop a studio getting the agreement of a deceased performer's estate and using that likeness in films? Disney has certainly done it with Peter Cushing as General Tarkin in Rogue One. Then there's the Flash movie recently. And James Earl Jones gave his permission for his Darth Vader lines to be AI generated in the Kenobi series and undoubtedly it would be easy enough to use that posthumously if he has also given permission for that. |
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Post by bobbievanhusen on Jul 19, 2023 3:07:40 GMT
Companies like Netflix has also been relying on good cheap foreign films from places like Korea. Films that are more interested in telling a story than driving through a message or agenda. Would you rather pay to have a killer film like Squid Game on your streaming website or more expensive projects back home that may or may not succeed Squid Game (a TV series) most definitely had a message behind it - the whole thing was about capitalism. Speaking off, the writer and creator of Squid Game got paid his contractual payment. Not a single payment more based on how well it's performed. Why should studio and streaming bosses get bonuses based on other peoples work? Also, Netflix hasn't been relying on anything. With shows like The Crown, Sex Education, Bridgerton, Ozark, You, Stranger Things, Wednesday, Dahmer, to name but a few, it's doing alright on it's own. 2 years ago Netflix took over the entire Shepperton Studios and has increased it's size from 14 to 31 studios, just to keep up with demand. |
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Post by sukhavati on Jul 19, 2023 7:28:27 GMT
With all this talk of AI is there anything to stop a studio getting the agreement of a deceased performer's estate and using that likeness in films? A lot of variables. Many years ago there was outrage when Fred Astaire's widow authorized use of old film of him being put into a vacuum cleaner advert. Paula Abdul did a Coca Cola advert where she had permission from various artists/estates to use their images.
There are agencies that specialize in licensing the images of dead celebrities; there was a news story that mentioned one in particular about the time that Lisa Marie Presley died because this agency handled deals for the estates of Elvis and Marilyn Monroe. With more recent performers it depends on the terms of their will. A coworker is friends with a music star everyone would recognise, and he mentioned he'd spoken to her earlier today - they were catching up as both had been unwell recently. She's stipulated that if anything happens to her that she doesn't want any "holograms," AI doubles - nothing. She wants her recordings/videos and genuine work to speak for itself. Her executors and children are all very clear on the matter.
I suspect more and more actors/artists are going to have to think very hard about this issue when they're making final plans. I can imagine that when there is dissent between surviving relatives, factions could be manipulated and played off of each other as long as there is the technology to resurrect the image/voice and money to be made. Think about how Michael Jackson was practically broke when he died, but now his estate has turned the finances around with multiple new licensing deals and he's in the top three of dead celebrity earners. Very weird world.
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Post by crowblack on Jul 19, 2023 8:47:03 GMT
I heard 'Johnny Cash sings Barbie Girl' on the radio yesterday. I was also wondering, how far off are we from a situation where we could simply scan in, say, some old 2000AD stories from the comics and AI would use them as a storyboard and create a movie? Or a novel - choose your actors, choose a directorial style: whatever wills and agreements hold regarding legal licences in the US won't mean much in a globalised world (for example, there's a Russian ad at the mo using a living Hollywood star's AI likeness).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2023 14:16:17 GMT
I suspect more and more actors/artists are going to have to think very hard about this issue when they're making final plans. I can imagine that when there is dissent between surviving relatives, factions could be manipulated and played off of each other as long as there is the technology to resurrect the image/voice and money to be made. Think about how Michael Jackson was practically broke when he died, but now his estate has turned the finances around with multiple new licensing deals and he's in the top three of dead celebrity earners. Very weird world.
I guess a will would override the wishes of surviving family members to potentially cash in on their deceased relatives likeness. The was always the like Jacko was worth more dead than alive although those London shows would have made him a fortune. I also heard that apparently Will-Iam wouldn't release demos that he and Michael had been working on to Jacko's estate as they were incomplete and he felt Michael wouldn't want them to heard by his fans as they weren't yet up to his required standards. |
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Post by crowblack on Jul 20, 2023 13:50:27 GMT
Popular tweets on this today: "Extreme tinfoil hat theory is that studios have been juicing their streaming numbers and they don’t want to pay residuals on a ton of fake views" "They’re in a bind.
Admit to shareholders numbers are inflated. Lose value. Pay less residuals. Keep inflating numbers. Shareholders happy, have to start paying creatives more."
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Post by crowblack on Jul 20, 2023 19:58:35 GMT
Also seeing on Twitter a lot of anger about Universal studios apparently cutting back the leaves on trees by the studio that were providing shade for strikers (and nesting habitat for birds, which may mean this is unlawful).
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Post by sukhavati on Jul 21, 2023 6:32:33 GMT
I heard 'Johnny Cash sings Barbie Girl' on the radio yesterday. I was also wondering, how far off are we from a situation where we could simply scan in, say, some old 2000AD stories from the comics and AI would use them as a storyboard and create a movie? Or a novel - choose your actors, choose a directorial style: whatever wills and agreements hold regarding legal licences in the US won't mean much in a globalised world (for example, there's a Russian ad at the mo using a living Hollywood star's AI likeness). AI already being trained on novels. Guess you haven't seen this one yet...
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Post by sukhavati on Jul 21, 2023 6:36:20 GMT
Also seeing on Twitter a lot of anger about Universal studios apparently cutting back the leaves on trees by the studio that were providing shade for strikers (and nesting habitat for birds, which may mean this is unlawful). Yes, apparently there were no permits for tree trimming issued by the city.
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