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Post by viserys on Jun 14, 2023 7:02:44 GMT
A third man musical was staged in Vienna in 2016, was it this one? I've tried searching for it but with not much luck This IS that musical. It was planned, but was never actually staged. The Vereinigte Bühnen Wien who are the big musical producers had a string of flops with home-grown new musicals (such as Schikaneder with music by Stephen Schwartz), so they probably got cold feet and focused on either developing new jukebox musicals or revivals of older musicals. Edit to add: Not surprised by the negative feedback so far. These things that are written "on commission" and just for the paycheck are rarely ever inspired.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 14, 2023 7:12:11 GMT
Thanks for clarifying.
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jun 14, 2023 7:54:12 GMT
This was not my thing when I saw the first preview on Saturday. Seen the film ages ago, but can't remember much. Will go and watch that again for the cinematic treatment of the story.
Music was bland, lyrics even to me sounded bad at times (Don Black was in the audience), characters were more like sketches and unbelievable, can't really fault the direction or the set, probably the best they could do. This is one example of what a group of very talented people can fail to produce. Was interested especially as this was rumoured for Vienna for years, but this show would never have been staged at the Vereinigte Bühnen Wien, it really has nothing to offer, absolutely clear why they passed.
Were told when we went in it would be 2 hours plus 15 minutes intermission, ran 10 minutes longer and felt VERY long at times, will probably be tightened during previews.
2/5
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Post by nash16 on Jun 14, 2023 7:58:33 GMT
I know it is only two days in, but has anybody seen this yet? Any impressions? Was also in this evening. As the above poster said the score is very forgettable with there are some questionably stupid lyrics. The story is told well. Act one could do with trimming down, perhaps lose the awful ‘lecture’ song/shorten that storyline as it doesn’t add much. Act two had a good pace that kept my attention with some better songs (but still not brilliant). The chemistry between the two leads was missing, his love for her sort of comes out of the blue perhaps over time as they bed in their chemistry will be there and it’ll make more sense. It is worth a watch and will be interesting to see if they trim it down/make any major changes in the next few weeks. It was nice to be in the presence of Sir Trevor who was sat opposite us making his notes. Started around 1933 and was out by 2201. Expect this will tighten up over the next few weeks. “Started around 1933 and was out by 2201. Expect this will tighten up over the next few weeks.” I know Trev does long shows, but a 268yr running time has to be a new record for him, surely?
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Post by singingbird on Jun 14, 2023 9:53:28 GMT
Was also there last night and agree with many of the comments on here. I had high hopes as it’s ¾ of the core creative team of Sunset Boulevard which is, of course, another adaptation of a classic mid-twentieth century film. However, although a lot of the constituent parts of this are good, it really doesn’t come together.
I actually had no problem with the lyrics – some great rhymes and interesting vocabulary choices. Musically it was rich and apposite but I think suffers from the fact that Fenton isn’t a naturally theatrical composer. There was no dramatic propulsion to the score. It didn’t grab me and carry me along. It added tone and colour but was rarely dramatic.
I thought the performances were great but, yes, the leads lacked chemistry. The direction felt really flat to me – a lot of people running about but no clear evocation of a time or place. Basically , it was Trevor Nunn just peddling the same old schtick, which is fair enough as that’s his style, but it all felt a bit tired.
Biggest issue, to my mid, is that it’s just not a story that begs to be musicalized. It’s all very secretive and about people hiding their motives – not naturally something that leads to people singing. This means it just never takes off.
It’s good that it’s on at the Menier – absolutely the right place for it. 20 years ago this would have opened in the West End and closed fairly quickly. In fact, that’s what it most reminded me of – shows like La Cava, Gone With the Wind and the Far Pavilions. Not at all bad, certainly competent all round, but just a bit stodgy and lacking in drama and a reason to sing.
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233 posts
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Post by singingbird on Jun 14, 2023 9:54:38 GMT
A third man musical was staged in Vienna in 2016, was it this one? I've tried searching for it but with not much luck These things that are written "on commission" and just for the paycheck are rarely ever inspired. SO true.
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4,973 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Jun 14, 2023 12:26:57 GMT
Poll added.
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Post by raiseitup on Jun 14, 2023 16:38:10 GMT
I turned up at the Menier last night only to realise when my tickets were being checked that they were actually for Monday night... d'oh! First time I've ever done it that way round, turned up a day early a few times though. So, I'm rather selfishly glad that it seems I didn't miss much when I opted to get pancakes instead of trying for any returns.
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Post by theoracle on Jun 14, 2023 23:38:30 GMT
I was happy with this - it’ll need some more polishing before press night but all in all the transitions were great and the music captured the mood of the piece and there was a filmic quality to the show that was faithful to the source material. There were some tense moments in the second half which the first half lacked. Performances were ok and chemistry between the leads was lukewarm at best but I was pleased by Sam Underwood’s singing. Simon Bailey clearly the strongest performer here though - his Harry was genuinely threatening and intimidating. Don Black’s lyrics as mentioned are wonderful here too. It’s a pity to see the audience mainly made up of those from a certain generation as I thought Sam could pull in a younger crowd. Still, it’s a lovely departure from some other contemporary musicals on right now and I hope critics will warm to it.
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Post by theatrelover123 on Jun 17, 2023 17:49:27 GMT
Wow this was utterly dreadful. Little to recommend it in any areas tbh. It felt like the worst amateur show you might have seen….and then keep going The Menier feels quite soul-less now too
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Post by sf on Jun 17, 2023 21:04:20 GMT
Saw it this afternoon. It might be the first stage musical ever to be written, directed, and performed by ChatGPT. Or rather, it might as well have been. There is no spark. There is no inkling of why any of these people wanted to retell this story. There's just dreary music and dreary lyrics - yes, we get it, Lime rhymes with slime - performed by a cast who would clearly rather be somewhere else. I can't blame them. There is one bright spot: {Spoiler - click to view} The Act One finale quotes a tiny snippet of the Harry Lime Theme. That's nice, because it means once in the show - just once - you get to hear about four bars of really great music.
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jun 18, 2023 19:30:47 GMT
Watched the film yesterday, what a masterpiece. All the faults of the show come from one problem - you can't better the film and you don't add to it, you just have to cut things. The Vienna setting, the cat, the child....a thousand little things. And in the film all the characters make sense and are interesting, great performances. Do it as a play with one Zither-player...would be so much better.
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Post by lonlad on Jun 20, 2023 14:44:14 GMT
Mostly 2 and 3 star reviews, one eccentric 4 star one from the i ....
Think this is going to be a very tough sell through to Sept 9 since those old enough to remember the film will quite wisely be perfectly content to sit and watch it once again at home. No wonder Sam Underwood in the Joseph Cotten role spends the whole time looking worried. I would be, too.
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Post by shownut on Jun 20, 2023 15:16:49 GMT
Mostly 2 and 3 star reviews, one eccentric 4 star one from the i .... Think this is going to be a very tough sell through to Sept 9 since those old enough to remember the film will quite wisely be perfectly content to sit and watch it once again at home. No wonder Sam Underwood in the Joseph Cotten role spends the whole time looking worried. I would be, too. I just wonder how Babani could not see this was a stinker in making, even with the creative names attached. The Menier needs a win so lets hope the rest of their season is more promising.
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4,598 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 20, 2023 16:00:09 GMT
looking at the reviews for this, the MCF are sadly channelling Paradise Found.
I haven't seen Third Man but I struggle to see the logic in programming it at this time. Couldn't we have had a crowd pleaser? Hello Dolly, Pal Joey and Witches of Eastwick are all crying out to be staged.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 20, 2023 16:03:57 GMT
Mostly 2 and 3 star reviews, one eccentric 4 star one from the i .... Think this is going to be a very tough sell through to Sept 9 since those old enough to remember the film will quite wisely be perfectly content to sit and watch it once again at home. No wonder Sam Underwood in the Joseph Cotten role spends the whole time looking worried. I would be, too. I just wonder how Babani could not see this was a stinker in making, even with the creative names attached. The Menier needs a win so lets hope the rest of their season is more promising. I question Nunn's judgement, he once did a great job at the RSC and NT, how do you from that to Gone with the wind and Third Man. After studying the great texts of Shakespeare can you read Don Black more recent lyrics and think it's any good ? Is he a workaholic who accepts anything?
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Post by lonlad on Jun 20, 2023 16:09:38 GMT
>> Is he a workaholic who accepts anything?
Um, yes. Remember STARLIGHT EXPRESS (and much much much else along the way as well!)
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Post by shownut on Jun 20, 2023 16:12:44 GMT
>> Is he a workaholic who accepts anything? Um, yes. Remember STARLIGHT EXPRESS (and much much much else along the way as well!) Yes, what a disaster. Such a short run of 18 years and only made £140m in profit. What WAS he thinking?
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Post by lonlad on Jun 20, 2023 16:25:39 GMT
He was thinking about the cash, as your post indicates: that has ALWAYS come first with him. It remains one of the most critically derided musicals ever and I speak as a survivor of the press night with the infamous taxi despatch mishap ....
On Broadway, STARLIGHT lost a fortune as did his productions of ASPECTS and CHESS.
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4,598 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 20, 2023 16:36:12 GMT
Taxi despatch? - was this taxi drivers radio's interfering with the Sunset set?
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Post by alece10 on Jun 20, 2023 17:11:18 GMT
looking at the reviews for this, the MCF are sadly channelling Paradise Found. I haven't seen Third Man but I struggle to see the logic in programming it at this time. Couldn't we have had a crowd pleaser? Hello Dolly, Pal Joey and Witches of Eastwick are all crying out to be staged. They wouldn't be able to get the rights for Hello Dolly as it is pencilled in for next year with Imelda Staunton after she has finished filming The Crown. It unfortunately got cancelled due to covid.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 20, 2023 19:54:53 GMT
Is Imelda's gunning Dolly still happening? I was hoping it got quietly shelved.
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Post by shownut on Jun 20, 2023 20:47:41 GMT
Is Imelda's gunning Dolly still happening? I was hoping it got quietly shelved. Palladium. Summer 2024. Sorry to disappoint you.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 20, 2023 22:24:11 GMT
Is Imelda's gunning Dolly still happening? I was hoping it got quietly shelved. Yes as the poster above said- it’s the summer musical at the palladium
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Post by Steve on Jun 27, 2023 22:03:50 GMT
Saw this tonight, and agree with much of what has been said above: a shaggy dog story, gussied up by a masterful filmmaker into art, feels a little boring when stripped of the cinematics. However, there were things I loved: the opening number, utilising the whole ensemble; the atmospherically murky design; and the lead, Sam Underwood, carrying the story effortlessly and emotively. Some spoilers follow. . . This is essentially a shaggy dog story, made into something brilliant by Carol Reed in the film: by shooting on the streets of actually divided and destroyed postwar Vienna; by his further fetishistic division of that space into dark and suggestively mysterious shots; by the everpresent Anton Karas zither theme that slyly celebrates and simultaneously critiques a merry-go-round of deep corruption, that climaxes in well known musical themes, but which is much more fully formed than those mere musical highlights; and by Orson Welles's charismatic, dastardly and preciously brief appearance. This shaggy dog story, of one man questioning one person after the other after the other after the other after the other, is essentially boring, and what elevates that story in the film can't be replicated on stage. There are some things that really worked for me tonight:- (1) The opening number, utilising the entire ensemble singing and dancing, felt very Fiddler on the Roof shtetl, beautifully suggesting the desperation and searching of a population who survived a war; (2) Sam Underwood rocks as a musical theatre actor, carrying the book emotively, and excelling in singing as well. God help this show without him making all the questioning of one person after another seem interesting lol; (3) There is a "Cabaret"-like emphasis imposed on the piece, with out-of-towner, Underwood, falling for invidualistic morally-compromised nightclub singer, Natalie Dunne. This works best, when the lights go down and she sings commandingly, like Sally Bowles. Unfortunately, the writers of this musical are too slavish to the film to allow the more buttoned up chanteuse of the film to get fully naked emotionally on stage, the way Bowles unleashes her every inner demon. That would have distinguished the musical from the film in a theatrical way the film could never have aspired to, and would have excited the audience, but unfortunately, this aspect is only partially realised, and all too soon we are simply questioning another witness in shaggy dog style. Overall, there was enough I liked for me to rate this 3 stars. PS: I also missed the cat from the film lol!
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Post by robertb213 on Jun 28, 2023 10:43:35 GMT
Do you think audiences are more likely to enjoy this if they haven't seen the film to compare it to? I have a show slot and need to fill it with something and I've never seen this film, so wondered if there's potential to enjoy it more if you're going in blind?
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Post by Steve on Jun 28, 2023 15:03:06 GMT
Do you think audiences are more likely to enjoy this if they haven't seen the film to compare it to? I have a show slot and need to fill it with something and I've never seen this film, so wondered if there's potential to enjoy it more if you're going in blind? I think it's a wash. Those who've seen it may enjoy the nostalgia of revisiting the film, but will likely end up disappointed that the musical doesn't add much. Those who haven't seen it may experience an enjoyable extra twist or two (I haven't revealed any twists in my review), but the shaggy dog nature of most of the story may still bore them a bit, given that they won't experience what makes the film work.
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3,935 posts
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Post by Dawnstar on Jun 28, 2023 16:34:41 GMT
Steve What is this "shaggy dog" that you keep referring to? I've never come across that phrase as a metaphor before.
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Post by keyspi on Jun 28, 2023 19:05:26 GMT
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Post by Steve on Jun 28, 2023 22:03:56 GMT
Steve What is this "shaggy dog" that you keep referring to? I've never come across that phrase as a metaphor before. Literally, a shaggy dog story is where you want some information from someone, and they, amusingly and deliberately, keep delaying giving you that information by extending and extending and extending the middle part of the story.
Maybe the wikipedia story explains why it's called a shaggy dog story lol. I've seen it done in stand-up getting major laughs by testing the audience's patience to the point of fury by just constantly padding the middle of the story some more, refusing to ever get to the point.
Some spoilers follow. . .
For me, this is like a shaggy dog story, without the benefit of being funny: the A storyline is that the lead character wants to know what happened to his friend, Harry Lime, and he then approaches one character after another for the answer, each pointing him to the next person to ask. It's as if the storyteller, to fill the running time, just keeps adding people in the middle of the story to pad it out.
The real A storyline is in the periphery, the small details in each interaction that build up a picture of a corrupt and dangerous world, and doing that before the audience's patience runs out.
And luckily, there is a B storyline as well, offering the lead character a potential for romance. . .
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