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Post by mkb on Nov 26, 2022 14:12:18 GMT
If you stay regularly with certain hotel chains, you can expect to be rewarded with free upgrades, late check-outs, complimentary breakfasts, etc.
Similarly, fly regularly with an airline alliance, and enjoy priority check-in, priority boarding, lounge access, upgrades and more.
So why do those of us who frequent theatre chains as paying customers umpteen times a year get no thanks for our loyalty? In fact, where there are membership schemes, theatres actually expect you to pay for the "loyalty" benefits. The rate is the same whether you spend £20 in a year for one ticket, or put £1,000+ of business their way.
Surely this is short-sighted? With flights and accommodation, I have often engaged in travel on top of what I would have ordinarily done, purely to trigger the next tier of membership benefits. Loyalty programmes, far from costing money, can actually drive additional discretionary revenue.
By all means charge people to join the membership schemes of ATG, Delfont Mackintosh, the National, etc. if they're starting from scratch. But, why not allow theatregoers to earn points for each show they attend, which can be redeemed for free programmes, drinks, upgrades, etc. and crucially, once you have enough, membership renewal.
Theatres are also missing a trick by tracking only the activity of the lead booker. A loyalty scheme would enable the membership numbers of all attendees to be logged, and that individual level of data is valuable from a marketing perspective.
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Post by Jon on Nov 26, 2022 15:39:15 GMT
I suspect someone has already looked into and realise the cost benefit wasn’t worth it. ATG is the only theatre companies who could realistically offer something, membership is more to support the theatre and getting priority bookings. Giving away stuff is too costly for an individual theatre to do on a regular basis.
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Post by mkb on Nov 26, 2022 16:05:40 GMT
I suspect someone has already looked into and realise the cost benefit wasn’t worth it. You'd hope so, wouldn't you? But I've been on the receiving end of so much pointless or counter-productive marketing spend from theatres that it would not surprise me if they actually hadn't. |
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Post by foxa on Nov 26, 2022 17:41:47 GMT
Theatres and arts organisations generally seem to have a big push for new and younger audiences, which is understandable to a degree, but I wonder if after lockdown, etc. some of their reliable older audiences have drifted away as there isn't all that much to entice them back. I was annoyed a while back when a prominent fringe theatre was celebrating on social media about the young diverse audience they had in for a matinee (which is great, obviously) but then made fun of the couple of 'grey-haired' people in the audience in a 'bet they didn't know what hit them way' (rude, ageist, patronising.)
I think loyalty points for programmes/drinks/upgrades is a good idea. Or if you are on a Friends scheme for a theatre and they've had a dud season then perhaps an offer of something extra if you show faith in them by renewing.
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Post by kathryn on Nov 26, 2022 20:16:38 GMT
Most travel loyalty programmes are primarily aimed at business travellers - predicated on the idea that travellers are spending the firm’s money, not their own, and so can be tempted by loyalty benefits to pick one company instead of another even if it’s slightly more expensive (not if it’s *much* more expensive).
Benefits are typically them used on the traveller’s leisure travel with their family as well, making it an attractive incentive.
I don’t think it can work economically for theatre - it’s usually purely discretionary personal spending, and any perk a loyalty programme could offer would not outweigh the desire to see one show over another.
I say that as an infrequent business traveller who has leveraged every credit card and supermarket loyalty scheme going to take advantage of travel loyalty programmes!! I know I’m an outlier and not who the schemes are really aimed at.
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Post by dontdreamit on Nov 26, 2022 20:23:03 GMT
I’d like it if you could get discounts when seeing the same show multiple times…
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Post by theatrefan62 on Nov 26, 2022 20:49:33 GMT
Theatres and arts organisations generally seem to have a big push for new and younger audiences, which is understandable to a degree, but I wonder if after lockdown, etc. some of their reliable older audiences have drifted away as there isn't all that much to entice them back. I was annoyed a while back when a prominent fringe theatre was celebrating on social media about the young diverse audience they had in for a matinee (which is great, obviously) but then made fun of the couple of 'grey-haired' people in the audience in a 'bet they didn't know what hit them way' (rude, ageist, patronising.) I think loyalty points for programmes/drinks/upgrades is a good idea. Or if you are on a Friends scheme for a theatre and they've had a dud season then perhaps an offer of something extra if you show faith in them by renewing. Sad to hear but not surprised. I find theatre is quite ageist, especially in London. To be honest you see it on this forum too at times |
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Post by Dawnstar on Nov 26, 2022 20:50:01 GMT
I was annoyed a while back when a prominent fringe theatre was celebrating on social media about the young diverse audience they had in for a matinee (which is great, obviously) but then made fun of the couple of 'grey-haired' people in the audience in a 'bet they didn't know what hit them way' (rude, ageist, patronising.) How unpleasant of them. Do name the theatre, so I know to try to avoid them in the future should it be one that I ever go to. I’d like it if you could get discounts when seeing the same show multiple times… The Play That Goes Wrong did this for a while, though I don't think they do so any more. So did Showstopper for their London shows. In each case you got stamps on a card & when it was filled could get a free ticket. Thr Rpyal Opera House seems to be discouraging repeat customers at the moment, as during last season they abolished their package booking scheme, which gave a discount of 18% if you booked for all the operas or all the ballets in a booking period. Coupled with the significant ticket price rises it's really been a double whammy. The front row stalls seat that I got for £96 with the package booking discount to see their Sleeping Beauty in January 2020 is now £151 for January 2023 (so no, I won't be able to afford to sit there this time). |
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Post by Jon on Nov 27, 2022 1:48:30 GMT
Most travel loyalty programmes are primarily aimed at business travellers - predicated on the idea that travellers are spending the firm’s money, not their own, and so can be tempted by loyalty benefits to pick one company instead of another even if it’s slightly more expensive (not if it’s *much* more expensive). Benefits are typically them used on the traveller’s leisure travel with their family as well, making it an attractive incentive. I don’t think it can work economically for theatre - it’s usually purely discretionary personal spending, and any perk a loyalty programme could offer would not outweigh the desire to see one show over another. I say that as an infrequent business traveller who has leveraged every credit card and supermarket loyalty scheme going to take advantage of travel loyalty programmes!! I know I’m an outlier and not who the schemes are really aimed at. Unless you offer a season of shows for a discounted price which TBF is done by some theatre companies then a loyalty programme is not going to worth it in terms of getting points and even then do people go to the theatre that often in order to get say an upgrade or a free drink/ice cream. Looking into memberships, DMT+ gives you two free drinks and two free programmes vouchers a year alongside priority booking and ticket exchange along 10% off the bars, ATG card doesn't give anything free in terms of programmes and drinks but the bar discount is more generous at 25% but also has ticket exchange, no booking and transaction fees as well as a refund on tickets if you have their more expensive membership. The Barbican membership is good value for what you get per year. I don't personally think it's wrong for theatres to try and diversify their audience. We'd be complaining if the National for example just did safe revivals of the classics and the odd cosy new plays and it pays off to take risks as well as we've seen with shows like War Horse and Curious Incident. |
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Post by mkb on Nov 27, 2022 1:57:05 GMT
Most travel loyalty programmes are primarily aimed at business travellers - predicated on the idea that travellers are spending the firm’s money, not their own, and so can be tempted by loyalty benefits to pick one company instead of another even if it’s slightly more expensive (not if it’s *much* more expensive). Benefits are typically them used on the traveller’s leisure travel with their family as well, making it an attractive incentive. I don’t think it can work economically for theatre - it’s usually purely discretionary personal spending, and any perk a loyalty programme could offer would not outweigh the desire to see one show over another. I say that as an infrequent business traveller who has leveraged every credit card and supermarket loyalty scheme going to take advantage of travel loyalty programmes!! I know I’m an outlier and not who the schemes are really aimed at. You're right that that was the thinking in the infancy of travel reward programmes, but I don't think it's how they have subsequently evolved. I've been to a few gatherings of fans of these schemes, and I'd say most were like me, people who these days do little to no business travel, but use the schemes to maximise the benefits of leisure travel, and do a lot of leisure travel as a result. For those people who do still have to travel for work, the widespread clampdown on who they can travel/stay with by corporate travel departments means that many are no longer so easily influenced by loyalty schemes. The leisure traveller in contrast has full control over that decision. |
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Post by showgirl on Nov 27, 2022 5:38:21 GMT
I'd certainly prefer, and be more likely to join, a loyalty scheme as opposed to the ubiquitous, expensive membership type which offer supposed benefits of zero interest or use to me, such as drinks with the cast, Q & A sessions after an already late evening performance, discounts on pairs of tix when there is only one of me, etc. I do occasionally receive offers such as "as you saw X here you might be interested in this" but even these tell me nothing a keen theatregoer wouldn't already know and as the emails seem to coincide with a production which is selling slowly, they make me suspicious about the venue's motive.
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Post by lichtie on Nov 27, 2022 9:22:15 GMT
Suprised no one has yet mentioned the Old Vic's new-ish scheme which seems to be exactly like the travel schemes. Not that I can tell yet as I don't have enough points for anything...
Most of the travel schemes actually owe their origin to the early days of deregulation in the airline industry in the US, when suddenly airlines got to actually compete for customers freely. Hotels followed along shortly thereafter. That same type of competition doesn't really exist in Theatreland. It's not as if two identical versions of Frozen are being offered by different theatres and they are competing for the customers. What's more surprising is how poor the various paid for membership schemes are.
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Post by kathryn on Nov 27, 2022 10:15:57 GMT
Most travel loyalty programmes are primarily aimed at business travellers - predicated on the idea that travellers are spending the firm’s money, not their own, and so can be tempted by loyalty benefits to pick one company instead of another even if it’s slightly more expensive (not if it’s *much* more expensive). Benefits are typically them used on the traveller’s leisure travel with their family as well, making it an attractive incentive. I don’t think it can work economically for theatre - it’s usually purely discretionary personal spending, and any perk a loyalty programme could offer would not outweigh the desire to see one show over another. I say that as an infrequent business traveller who has leveraged every credit card and supermarket loyalty scheme going to take advantage of travel loyalty programmes!! I know I’m an outlier and not who the schemes are really aimed at. You're right that that was the thinking in the infancy of travel reward programmes, but I don't think it's how they have subsequently evolved. I've been to a few gatherings of fans of these schemes, and I'd say most were like me, people who these days do little to no business travel, but use the schemes to maximise the benefits of leisure travel, and do a lot of leisure travel as a result. For those people who do still have to travel for work, the widespread clampdown on who they can travel/stay with by corporate travel departments means that many are no longer so easily influenced by loyalty schemes. The leisure traveller in contrast has full control over that decision. Are you a fellow Heads For Points-er? I don’t think it’s true that ‘most’ users are like you and me at all. We’re the ones looking for the best ways to leverage various schemes for our leisure travel because we don’t do enough business travel to earn the benefits without effort. The design of the schemes may not entirely make sense any more now that corporate travel departments hold such sway (though my experience is that they are rubbish, and that I could find better/cheaper options on my own). But is *is* how they are designed and they’re big enough ships that it’ll take some time for them to turn. |
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Post by Dave B on Nov 27, 2022 10:18:46 GMT
I know it's not quite the same, but some theatres do have really good offers for multi or season bookings. Both Orange Tree and Lyric Hammersmith just put that on for their new seasons this past week.
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Post by kathryn on Nov 27, 2022 10:23:54 GMT
. It's not as if two identical versions of Frozen are being offered by different theatres and they are competing for the customers. What's more surprising is how poor the various paid for membership schemes are. The only situation where you get that type of competition is Panto. Most theatres will put one on and there’s a handful of stories, but people rarely book based on which one it is. That’s when theatres could be doing some kind of loyalty scheme to encourage the group bookers (school/youth groups, families) to pick their theatre’s Panto year after year. |
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 27, 2022 11:48:03 GMT
Southwark is doing a version, I believe - buy packs of 5 'tickets' for £60 (£75 from the end of this month), effectively tokens, and cash them in as and when (no restrictions). More generally, though, I'm not convinced the comparisons with other industries work, especially in the era of dynamic pricing. I do see loyalty rewarded all the time, but in a different way - if you receive theatre/venue emails and read them and make a note of release dates, it is a different kind of loyalty but you are 'rewarded' in a sense by bagging the best seats in your personal price range. Very venue specific, and if you're engaged enough to read the emails, that's pretty loyal imo.
What follows from that is £12 front row at the Young Vic, £10 at the Old Vic, £15 at the National, £12 at the Royal Court, £10-£15 at The Almeida, etc. West End seems increasingly more difficult atm but who knows in these difficult times.
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Post by mkb on Nov 27, 2022 13:51:12 GMT
Are you a fellow Heads For Points-er? Mainly a passive follower, but when I post on there, it's also as MKB. |
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Post by mkb on Nov 27, 2022 14:05:49 GMT
Southwark is doing a version, I believe - buy packs of 5 'tickets' for £60 (£75 from the end of this month), effectively tokens, and cash them in as and when (no restrictions). More generally, though, I'm not convinced the comparisons with other industries work, especially in the era of dynamic pricing. I do see loyalty rewarded all the time, but in a different way - if you receive theatre/venue emails and read them and make a note of release dates, it is a different kind of loyalty but you are 'rewarded' in a sense by bagging the best seats in your personal price range. Very venue specific, and if you're engaged enough to read the emails, that's pretty loyal imo.
What follows from that is £12 front row at the Young Vic, £10 at the Old Vic, £15 at the National, £12 at the Royal Court, £10-£15 at The Almeida, etc. West End seems increasingly more difficult atm but who knows in these difficult times.
That's kinda my point. I'm in some of those schemes and many others. For a payment of anything between £30 and £80, I'm rewarded with a plethora of "loyalty" benefits. But I've simply bought access to those benefits. Wouldn't it be better from the theatre's perspective if you had to earn those benefits by working your way up membership tiers by actually attending shows? The current system is a godsend for touts, who, like us, for a relatively small outlay, can secure access to priority sales of in-demand shows. |
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Post by cavocado on Nov 27, 2022 14:26:15 GMT
. It's not as if two identical versions of Frozen are being offered by different theatres and they are competing for the customers. What's more surprising is how poor the various paid for membership schemes are. The only situation where you get that type of competition is Panto. Most theatres will put one on and there’s a handful of stories, but people rarely book based on which one it is. That’s when theatres could be doing some kind of loyalty scheme to encourage the group bookers (school/youth groups, families) to pick their theatre’s Panto year after year. It's not just similar shows that compete. Nobody has unlimited time/money to go to the theatre, and not every show is a 'must see'. I often end up choosing between quite different shows because I can't see everything that interests me, and sometimes I choose for reasons that have nothing to do with the play or cast, like ticket price, comfortable seats, nice foyer. From my point of view, loyalty schemes and targeted marketing could influence my choice, e.g. if I had a voucher for a ticket upgrade as a reward for booking 4 shows that year, or if booking at a theatre would help me earn a future reward. The existing membership schemes are mostly no longer worth the money when they just offer things like early booking (for shows which are unlikely to sell out) and maybe 10% off in the bar/shop. They should be looking at better rewards when membership is falling off, like discounted prices for members, a few free drink vouchers per year, half price programmes, seat upgrades, 3 for 2 offers, even occasional free tickets for shows that aren't selling well. Maybe more aggressive and targeted marketing is seen as a bit distasteful in the arts? |
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 27, 2022 14:50:35 GMT
Southwark is doing a version, I believe - buy packs of 5 'tickets' for £60 (£75 from the end of this month), effectively tokens, and cash them in as and when (no restrictions). More generally, though, I'm not convinced the comparisons with other industries work, especially in the era of dynamic pricing. I do see loyalty rewarded all the time, but in a different way - if you receive theatre/venue emails and read them and make a note of release dates, it is a different kind of loyalty but you are 'rewarded' in a sense by bagging the best seats in your personal price range. Very venue specific, and if you're engaged enough to read the emails, that's pretty loyal imo.
What follows from that is £12 front row at the Young Vic, £10 at the Old Vic, £15 at the National, £12 at the Royal Court, £10-£15 at The Almeida, etc. West End seems increasingly more difficult atm but who knows in these difficult times.
That's kinda my point. I'm in some of those schemes and many others. For a payment of anything between £30 and £80, I'm rewarded with a plethora of "loyalty" benefits. But I've simply bought access to those benefits. Wouldn't it be better from the theatre's perspective if you had to earn those benefits by working your way up membership tiers by actually attending shows? The current system is a godsend for touts, who, like us, for a relatively small outlay, can secure access to priority sales of in-demand shows.
It happens occasionally (Donmar back in the day, Almeida/Icke, perhaps), but not sure I know anyone who wants to see every production only on the basis it is the same venue, or same AD. Part of the business plan + ACE criteria through the course of a season/year, is to appeal to different/overlapping demographics - young, older, not/middle-class, star-led, musical/new/classic revival, etc.
Re touting : Fwiw, i was under the opposite impression. Post-Covid, theatres have managed to make themselves the 'reseller' - buying back at face value if the dynamic pricing has pushed prices up, and reselling at the new price. Without physical tickets, I don't know how you can guarantee the bloke on the internet who's sending tickets to you as attachments, isn't doing the same with a dozen other punters. Perhaps I'm tech naive. There has also been the rise of 'face value' web sites.
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Post by Jon on Nov 27, 2022 18:16:02 GMT
It's not just similar shows that compete. Nobody has unlimited time/money to go to the theatre, and not every show is a 'must see'. I often end up choosing between quite different shows because I can't see everything that interests me, and sometimes I choose for reasons that have nothing to do with the play or cast, like ticket price, comfortable seats, nice foyer. From my point of view, loyalty schemes and targeted marketing could influence my choice, e.g. if I had a voucher for a ticket upgrade as a reward for booking 4 shows that year, or if booking at a theatre would help me earn a future reward. The existing membership schemes are mostly no longer worth the money when they just offer things like early booking (for shows which are unlikely to sell out) and maybe 10% off in the bar/shop. They should be looking at better rewards when membership is falling off, like discounted prices for members, a few free drink vouchers per year, half price programmes, seat upgrades, 3 for 2 offers, even occasional free tickets for shows that aren't selling well. Maybe more aggressive and targeted marketing is seen as a bit distasteful in the arts? I'm not sure if a theatre owner would have the ability to give away free tickets unless there was a way to compensate the producers of the show. |
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Post by schuttep on Nov 28, 2022 12:09:27 GMT
For me, priority booking is very worthwhile for theatres that - more often than not - sell out eg Donmar, Almeida.
My membership level at the Menier also gets me free programmes although the bar discount I used to get has ended.
The ATG 25% bar discount is great (there are lots of ATG theatres nationally) but it's a shame it ends in the final half hour before curtain up.
And my free Old Vic Local membership because of where I live (bar discount and ticket discount) is particularly welcome.
But the concept of "rewards" as in airlines, hotels, shopping, Eurostar, even banking is a very interesting one. Clearly theatres with several shows/venues are best placed to offer them but if the Old Vic can do OV Local, maybe it's not such an outlandish idea as some are suggesting.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 28, 2022 12:13:49 GMT
I can’t agree about the 25% bar discount being good. I think it’s a complete fiddle to get you into the theatre early, start buying discounted drinks then slam you full prices in the 30 mins before curtain up. A prime example of discounting something most people would never consider buying in the first place. Typical ATG shenanigans. Tightwads.
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Post by londonpostie on Nov 28, 2022 13:18:14 GMT
But the concept of "rewards" as in airlines, hotels, shopping, Eurostar, even banking is a very interesting one. Clearly theatres with several shows/venues are best placed to offer them but if the Old Vic can do OV Local, maybe it's not such an outlandish idea as some are suggesting. Old Vic started doing this because it landed a deal with Lambeth >>
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Post by cavocado on Nov 28, 2022 16:18:20 GMT
It's not just similar shows that compete. Nobody has unlimited time/money to go to the theatre, and not every show is a 'must see'. I often end up choosing between quite different shows because I can't see everything that interests me, and sometimes I choose for reasons that have nothing to do with the play or cast, like ticket price, comfortable seats, nice foyer. From my point of view, loyalty schemes and targeted marketing could influence my choice, e.g. if I had a voucher for a ticket upgrade as a reward for booking 4 shows that year, or if booking at a theatre would help me earn a future reward. The existing membership schemes are mostly no longer worth the money when they just offer things like early booking (for shows which are unlikely to sell out) and maybe 10% off in the bar/shop. They should be looking at better rewards when membership is falling off, like discounted prices for members, a few free drink vouchers per year, half price programmes, seat upgrades, 3 for 2 offers, even occasional free tickets for shows that aren't selling well. Maybe more aggressive and targeted marketing is seen as a bit distasteful in the arts? I'm not sure if a theatre owner would have the ability to give away free tickets unless there was a way to compensate the producers of the show. The 3 for 2 deals are basically cheaper tickets, like Hammersmith Lyric does. For the occasional freebies I was thinking of shows which are selling badly, so will either have empty seats or use seat filling. E.g. The Duck House at Hampstead sold very badly, so they could have emailed people who've booked for several shows there in the last year and said "as a reward for your loyalty, we're offering a code to book 2 free tickets for specific shows, valid for the next 48 hours". So instead of offloading tickets via a third party, they are using them to reward loyal customers. It's not costing them money if those tickets are unlikely to sell. |
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Post by foxa on Nov 28, 2022 18:57:50 GMT
I think a problem with theatres themselves offering free tickets is that their customers who paid in advance and full price might feel annoyed (thus the secrecy demanded of seat filling sites.)
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Post by n1david on Nov 28, 2022 19:22:41 GMT
I think a problem with theatres themselves offering free tickets is that their customers who paid in advance and full price might feel annoyed (thus the secrecy demanded of seat filling sites.) ...and it ends up potentially suppressing sales in the first place as people think "I won't book now because I might get a discount/free tickets later." Given so few shows sell out at the moment - even at previous hotspots like the Donmar - more people would just wait and see. |
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Post by joni89 on Feb 7, 2023 10:09:31 GMT
The Wales Millennium Centre sometimes has priority booking and offers for members/friends of WMC. I think it depends on the venue.
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