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Post by Jan on Jul 3, 2018 15:53:57 GMT
The first production of a play is commonly seen as different in terms of the writer’s position. That the author is initially given the greater input for it seems fair to me, seeing as the more it is produced (if it is produced) the more it is going to be seen as interpretable, Regarding that, those such as the Beckett estate do no favours by demanding the final say in perpetuity. Workplaces are changing so that power can’t be wielded with the impunity it has previously. Theatre should be no different and no less open. Norris doesn’t seem to have said anything that won’t have already been known but, as with other recent revelations, it only serves the powerful by suggesting that saying anything in public is wrong. Theatre is a collaborative medium so it would seem to be a breach of trust to launch a one-sided public attack on the work of someone involved in the process (and only after the play had poor reviews). No different to a director going onto Twitter and saying an actor involved in their last production was no good. Anyway in this particular case, a commercial production, I doubt the hired director had any more “power” than the writer - I hope we’ll be hearing his side soon. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 16:03:22 GMT
Had I fallen asleep or did 'The Writer' at the Almeida (in amongst the cassoulet and the strap on dildos) cover some of those themes about the writer losing control of their work by the director? Perhaps Barney felt empowered by that play?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 16:32:28 GMT
The first production of a play is commonly seen as different in terms of the writer’s position. That the author is initially given the greater input for it seems fair to me, seeing as the more it is produced (if it is produced) the more it is going to be seen as interpretable, Regarding that, those such as the Beckett estate do no favours by demanding the final say in perpetuity. Workplaces are changing so that power can’t be wielded with the impunity it has previously. Theatre should be no different and no less open. Norris doesn’t seem to have said anything that won’t have already been known but, as with other recent revelations, it only serves the powerful by suggesting that saying anything in public is wrong. Theatre is a collaborative medium so it would seem to be a breach of trust to launch a one-sided public attack on the work of someone involved in the process (and only after the play had poor reviews). No different to a director going onto Twitter and saying an actor involved in their last production was no good. Anyway in this particular case, a commercial production, I doubt the hired director had any more “power” than the writer - I hope we’ll be hearing his side soon. The director here is older and has held positions which give them a higher status. It’s one of the main issues that Norris is highlighting and it’s very much a known problem (as Ryan suggests, The Writer follows that premise). What grievance procedures does The Bridge have that Norris will (hopefully) have gone through? Just because it’s commercial, it doesn’t mean that they can treat employees badly. |
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Post by Jan on Jul 3, 2018 17:39:28 GMT
Theatre is a collaborative medium so it would seem to be a breach of trust to launch a one-sided public attack on the work of someone involved in the process (and only after the play had poor reviews). No different to a director going onto Twitter and saying an actor involved in their last production was no good. Anyway in this particular case, a commercial production, I doubt the hired director had any more “power” than the writer - I hope we’ll be hearing his side soon. The director here is older and has held positions which give them a higher status. It’s one of the main issues that Norris is highlighting and it’s very much a known problem (as Ryan suggests, The Writer follows that premise). What grievance procedures does The Bridge have that Norris will (hopefully) have gone through? Just because it’s commercial, it doesn’t mean that they can treat employees badly. You don't know they have treated him badly. You also don't know what was in the contract he signed. You are right that the first production of a play is different in terms of a writer's position but only in that they are often expected to make major re-writes and adjustments based on input from the director and actors - for example even a successful and high-profile playwright like Peter Shaffer re-wrote whole sections of Amadeus during rehearsal and included lines supplied by both the director and actors. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 17:41:34 GMT
I’m with the Doctor on this one. Just because someone is crying out in public does not automatically make them right. In fact what they’re doing is tantamount to bullying. Writers have a union and if they feel there has been a serious professional breach they should pursue it either through their agent or the union. If it isn’t serious enough to warrant further action they should just rant about it amongst their friends and fellow writers who may have similar tales to tell. When plays don’t work out it’s tough but writers and directors, who have chosen such a public profession, have to suck it up and roll with the punches. The public does not need to know about this stuff unless it becomes a legal affair.
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Post by Jan on Jul 3, 2018 17:44:51 GMT
I’m with the Doctor on this one. Just because someone is crying out in public does not automatically make them right. In fact what they’re doing is tantamount to bullying. Writers have a union and if they feel there has been a serious professional breach they should pursue it either through their agent or the union. If it isn’t serious enough to warrant further action they should just rant about it amongst their friends and fellow writers who may have similar tales to tell. When plays don’t work out it’s tough but writers and directors, who have chosen such a public profession, have to suck it up and roll with the punches. The public does not need to know about this stuff unless it becomes a legal affair. If what they did had been contrary to the contract he'd signed his agent would have been all over it. He was given a fantastic, almost unique, opportunity to write a play as a young writer for a large commercial theatre and the reviews were disappointing. Now he holds his nose and says he only did it for the money. Well, guess what, everyone does it for the money, it's called WORK. |
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Post by foxa on Jul 3, 2018 18:44:37 GMT
Did everyone else know that Laurie Samson was a man before all this? Yes? So it was only me who didn't?
I feel a bit mixed about it. There have been nightmare directors that everyone kept quiet about to protect their own careers and now perhaps wonder if they should have spoken out. There was one who I heard horrible story after horrible story about his bullying, etc. frequently singling out one cast member (often young, often female) to humiliate. Someone in a cast recounted how this director in a notes session, singled out his victim once again to say 'Do you know how clumsy your every move is? How you clomp around the stage?' and on and on. Then she had to go onstage that night. Another who made a crew work days without sleep - or thanks.
But I'm not sure that anything Samson did - or least anything identified in the tweets - sounds like a nightmare per se - though changing lines without consultation with the playwright is thoughtless at best. I read Norris's tweets as more of a warning to new playwrights to have faith in their work and the colleagues they work well with and that seems a perfectly reasonable thing to express. More than anything on twitter, I think having two flops in a row with new plays in big venues might reflect poorly (justly or not) on Samson. But he directed the James Plays so he can obviously pull it out of the hat sometimes.
Probably Norris and Samson will both be fine after this, but might avoid each other at parties.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 18:46:59 GMT
People really need to read the actual tweets, it answers most of the points raised, from not feeling as though he had the rights or power to his message being given as a regret and a warning. The main point being that the rights others are saying he will have invoked he doesn’t appear to have understood or used. People, down the line, whether agent, management or whoever did not support someone, for whom this was a big change in working practices, enough.
It’s a sad state affairs but few people, especially younger employees, understand employment law or their rights.
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Post by mallardo on Jul 3, 2018 18:47:20 GMT
When it's writer versus director I will always go with the writer. That said, he has made a mistake in going public. He has now given himself a reputation as a complainer and, sadly and wrongly, that can be the kiss of death for a career.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 18:58:07 GMT
I don't think there's anything wrong with being a "complainer". I wish more people would speak up, but I feel that there's a way to do it while maintaining ones's professionalism. Norris's tweets seem passive aggressive. I usually try to swallow my fear and confront people who I feel are harming me. What's awful about the situation foxa recounts is that a group of people watched someone being singled out by a director and not one of them said anything about it. That's almost worse behaviour than the bully's. How can you be so afraid of losing a job that you allow someone to go through such a terrible experience without support? Is such a job worth having? Who was equity dep (rep?) on that show and why didn't they do anything about it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 19:24:21 GMT
Did everyone else know that Laurie Samson was a man before all this? Yes? So it was only me who didn't? No, I had to check. I have the same problem with Lyndsay Turner and Lindsay Posner. |
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Post by sf on Jul 3, 2018 22:17:54 GMT
When it's writer versus director I will always go with the writer. That said, he has made a mistake in going public. He has now given himself a reputation as a complainer and, sadly and wrongly, that can be the kiss of death for a career.
I read his Twitter thread. It is written very carefully, does not mention the director by name, and is more about reminding younger writers that they do have rights and they are entitled to stand up for themselves than about slinging mud.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 10:31:32 GMT
I've yet to meet a Barney that I haven't liked so I'm very much on his side.
Sort it out Nickyx2 or I shall stop buying the madeleines.
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Post by dani on Jul 4, 2018 10:46:01 GMT
Did everyone else know that Laurie Samson was a man before all this? Yes? So it was only me who didn't? No, I had to check. I have the same problem with Lyndsay Turner and Lindsay Posner. I am curious. Turner is a woman and Posner is a man, is that right? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 10:55:09 GMT
Yes, Turner is a woman and Posner is a man. For an embarrassingly long time, I believed there was a female playwright called Edna Walsh. While we're confessing confusion.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 12:38:17 GMT
“A worry for the director, Laurie Sansom, whose stock fell in May with Nightfall at the Bridge and crashes further here.”
According to the Telegraph review
Of Genesis Inc
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 12:45:15 GMT
Yes, Turner is a woman and Posner is a man. For an embarrassingly long time, I believed there was a female playwright called Edna Walsh. While we're confessing confusion. I've seen several German films I thought were directed by a woman called Faith Akin then I realised it was a bloke called Fatih Akin. |
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Post by showgirl on Jul 4, 2018 13:33:09 GMT
I thought Madani Younis (Bush Theatre AD) was female on the basis of his first name.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 14:43:36 GMT
“A worry for the director, Laurie Sansom, whose stock fell in May with Nightfall at the Bridge and crashes further here.” According to the Telegraph review Of Genesis Inc Uh-oh... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 15:47:34 GMT
Theatre directors, either directly or by proxy, routinely alter and add to texts but normally the writer is dead so no one seems to care, witness the hatchet jobs perpetrated by young British playwrights on classic plays by Ibsen and Chekhov which have been highly praised rather than being the subject of condemnation on Twitter citing the sanctity of the writer’s text. I think: Directors changing the script without the permission of the (living) playwright is very bad form. Adaptations/translations/works out of copyright are different - and often rely on interpretation/reinvention. The production of Nightfall was not very good. The play itself is weak. Barney Norris has done a better job of editing his Twitter thread than he did on the play itself. Norris has had a charmed run thus far (critically), and the downturn probably hurt his pride. Lashing out on Twitter against a colleague - however successfully it is framed within a message to "young theatre artists" - is probably, on balance, a bad move. |
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