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Post by Nelly on Feb 7, 2017 10:04:49 GMT
I've listened to the cast recording a few times and the mixtape once. I'm not going to listen to either again until I've seen it, around a year from now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 10:15:25 GMT
All of the above is the realistic and sensible approach surely? you can avoid much of it if you try- mute/unfollow accounts, don't read reviews etc etc.
I mean if I were THAT concerned about spoilers (occasionally have been for TV rather than theatre) it is possible to remove yourself from the relevant social media (as Baemax said above) and just not see. If it's that important to you, it is possible to live without social media until you see the thing.
But equally, over a year since the show opened, with the kind of profile it has, it's unreasonable to think people aren't going to be talking in detail. Personally I'd heard the music once or twice but didn't know anything about the style/staging. I love seeing a show 'unspoiled' at times but I think it's unreasonable to ask the whole world to refrain from talking about it for me, if it matters to me, I should be responsible.
And anyway, there's a tiny matter of the issue in question being a matter of historical record. Y'know like watching Titanic the musical and complaining you knew it sank at the end.
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Post by noboiscout on Feb 7, 2017 10:30:13 GMT
Personally, I would recommend that everyone reads up on Hamilton's life and listens to the cast recording! I saw it on Broadway and quite a bit of the story was lost on me, partly because of lack of knowledge about the characters and partly due to the very fast delivery of those songs sung in hip hop rhyme. The story moves along much faster than say, Les Mis, so you find yourself in a new scene while still pondering what happened in the previous one.
But hey - maybe I'm just not so bright, so everyone approach it as they please!
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Post by Nelly on Feb 7, 2017 10:32:03 GMT
All of the above is the realistic and sensible approach surely? you can avoid much of it if you try- mute/unfollow accounts, don't read reviews etc etc. I mean if I were THAT concerned about spoilers (occasionally have been for TV rather than theatre) it is possible to remove yourself from the relevant social media (as Baemax said above) and just not see. If it's that important to you, it is possible to live without social media until you see the thing. But equally, over a year since the show opened, with the kind of profile it has, it's unreasonable to think people aren't going to be talking in detail. Personally I'd heard the music once or twice but didn't know anything about the style/staging. I love seeing a show 'unspoiled' at times but I think it's unreasonable to ask the whole world to refrain from talking about it for me, if it matters to me, I should be responsible. And anyway, there's a tiny matter of the issue in question being a matter of historical record. Y'know like watching Titanic the musical and complaining you knew it sank at the end. Agreed. I watch Grey's Anatomy but like to wait until it's on in the UK but as the US is often ahead, I've muted, unfollowed, etc relevant accounts/sites. It actually isn't hard. With Hamilton I've also avoided reading/watching any articles or videos on it as visually I want it to be a surprise too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 10:34:13 GMT
All of the above is the realistic and sensible approach surely? you can avoid much of it if you try- mute/unfollow accounts, don't read reviews etc etc. I mean if I were THAT concerned about spoilers (occasionally have been for TV rather than theatre) it is possible to remove yourself from the relevant social media (as Baemax said above) and just not see. If it's that important to you, it is possible to live without social media until you see the thing. But equally, over a year since the show opened, with the kind of profile it has, it's unreasonable to think people aren't going to be talking in detail. Personally I'd heard the music once or twice but didn't know anything about the style/staging. I love seeing a show 'unspoiled' at times but I think it's unreasonable to ask the whole world to refrain from talking about it for me, if it matters to me, I should be responsible. And anyway, there's a tiny matter of the issue in question being a matter of historical record. Y'know like watching Titanic the musical and complaining you knew it sank at the end. Agreed. I watch Grey's Anatomy but like to wait until it's on in the UK but as the US is often ahead, I've muted, unfollowed, etc relevant accounts/sites. It actually isn't hard. With Hamilton I've also avoided reading/watching any articles or videos on it as visually I want it to be a surprise too. Whoop! Fellow Grey's fan! (and same, I don't follow the official accounts for example to avoid spoilers) Likewise if I KNOW I'm seeing a show soon after it opens I don't read reviews so I do get to see it fresh.
Also as a reviewer, I try to avoid overt spoilers in new shows, if they're plot relevant, but I think it's fair game to say for example 'Ophelia's death scene is very moving'
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840 posts
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Post by Steffi on Feb 7, 2017 10:37:44 GMT
Personally, I would recommend that everyone reads up on Hamilton's life and listens to the cast recording! I saw it on Broadway and quite a bit of the story was lost on me, partly because of lack of knowledge about the characters and partly due to the very fast delivery of those songs sung in hip hop rhyme. The story moves along much faster than say, Les Mis, so you find yourself in a new scene while still pondering what happened in the previous one. But hey - maybe I'm just not so bright, so everyone approach it as they please! Agreed. I usually like to avoid listening to cast recordings before seeing a new show. But with Hamilton I was glad I didn't. In no way would I have been able to follow the story AND appreciate the amazing choreography AND get just how clever the lyrics actually are if I had gone in without knowing the cast recording. There's just so much going on, it's hard to keep track on a first visit even with some prior knowledge. I'm not a native speaker though so obviously that makes it even harder for me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 10:37:49 GMT
Personally, I would recommend that everyone reads up on Hamilton's life and listens to the cast recording! I saw it on Broadway and quite a bit of the story was lost on me, partly because of lack of knowledge about the characters and partly due to the very fast delivery of those songs sung in hip hop rhyme. The story moves along much faster than say, Les Mis, so you find yourself in a new scene while still pondering what happened in the previous one. But hey - maybe I'm just not so bright, so everyone approach it as they please! I would have liked to have had a bit more prior knowledge too, in hindsight. The story moves fast, and it is completely possible to follow it (even if some nuances sneak by you), but as with Shakespeare, it has a very particular verbal style, and if you're not used to it then it can take some time for your ears to tune in. I have a friend who's only listened to act 1 so he knows what it is he's listening to, and he's saving act 2 until after he's seen the show, and I think this is a very sensible compromise option, though I have no idea how he has the self control!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 10:40:55 GMT
Personally, I would recommend that everyone reads up on Hamilton's life and listens to the cast recording! I saw it on Broadway and quite a bit of the story was lost on me, partly because of lack of knowledge about the characters and partly due to the very fast delivery of those songs sung in hip hop rhyme. The story moves along much faster than say, Les Mis, so you find yourself in a new scene while still pondering what happened in the previous one. But hey - maybe I'm just not so bright, so everyone approach it as they please! Agreed. I usually like to avoid listening to cast recordings before seeing a new show. But with Hamilton I was glad I didn't. In no way would I have been able to follow the story AND appreciate the amazing choreography AND get just how clever the lyrics actually are if I had gone in without knowing the cast recording. There's just so much going on, it's hard to keep track on a first visit even with some prior knowledge. I'm not a native speaker though so obviously that makes it even harder for me. I think even as a native speaker it helps- I'd listened all the way through maybe twice and seen a couple of the promo performances so was 'tuned in' to the style etc (as well as basic plot) and I think I enjoyed it far more for it. Mum who saw it with me had listened to none of it and found it hard to follow in places.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 11:33:53 GMT
I wouldn't say it's incomprehensible, but it moves bloody fast and they sing/rap bloody fast. Which I think at times means you do 'miss' things that once listening to the music more become clearer. It's not like Mum came out saying 'I have no idea what happened there' but she commented there were points when she was a bit lost due to the style- the same way you can be if Shakespeare productions take a certain style that causes losing bits. Just the finer details, which is really why I was saying I'm sure I/Mum will appreciate different things on seeing it knowing the recording. So a different experience not necessarily inferior. Personally I'd say it's not ideal, and agree that it's a relative failing that audiences potentially get lost...but that would be saying something negative about the sacred and holy Hamilton...so I better not
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Post by Steffi on Feb 7, 2017 11:35:39 GMT
I think following it in general won't be a problem. It's more about being able to grasp every nuance. For example I adore the show's choreography but I would not have been able to fully appreciate it if I hadn't known the cast recording. I would have been focused on what is being said / what is happening story wise - which is fine and doesn't mean you won't enjoy the show. For me prior knowledge meant I had the opportunity to see aspects of the show that otherwise I possibly wouldn't have been able to notice on a first visit.
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Post by littlesally on Feb 7, 2017 11:47:47 GMT
I bought my tickets for Hamilton 16 months in advance. On browsing a twitter feed, it revealed part of the plot of the show. I am gobsmacked at the insensitivity of this. So I will now watch the show for the first time fully knowing what happens to one the the characters. Not happy at the moment. I had the exact same thing with Titanic. Completely ruined it for me???
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 11:49:04 GMT
It's all about personal preference though, isn't it TM? Some people prefer to trust in a piece, and some people prefer a bit of a headstart. Not to be the w***er who keeps bringing Shakespeare into a Hamilton discussion, but I know I've got way more out of Shakespeare productions when I already knew the play going in, and looking back, I don't think "Michael Boyd should've made his Richard II clearer", I think "I wish I'd known Richard II before going in so I could have focused on enjoying and remembering it rather than following and understanding it". People like yourself who are happy to go in and trust in the piece to tell its own story comprehensibly in one go, that's great and a wholly valid way to enjoy a piece. But people like myself who don't mind being spoiled if other people like me have got more out of a piece for knowing it before going in, well, it's quite valuable to be able to have the conversation about whether Hamilton is one of those pieces or not. Neither viewpoint is invalid, neither is wrong, it's just one of the ways we're all slightly differently wired.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 11:55:06 GMT
On a Shakespeare/History note as well, to go back to the original post it's also relative- if a story is fairly well known in general/popular culture, say in Shakespeare Romeo and Juliet and in musicals, The Titanic. Then it's safe to assume the average person might have the gist of it beforehand. For a more obscure Shakespeare that isn't done often, or a complex musical narrative that isn't well known- like 'My Land's Shore' being advertised on this very board- for SOME people it might be useful/more enjoyable to have that outline before they go in, just as a back up so they can concentrate on things like performance, staging, music.
It's personal preference of course, but I can very much see the advantage of refreshing or searching plot knowledge.
To got back to plot knowledge though, maybe be more specific than my dear Mum who misheard my description of a popular musical as 'the one with the goat' instead of 'the one with the ghost' (leaving it open which one so not to be accused of spoilers!)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 11:59:16 GMT
maybe be more specific than my dear Mum who misheard my description of a popular musical as 'the one with the goat' instead of 'the one with the ghost' (leaving it open which one so not to be accused of spoilers!) Now, emicardiff, even I think that's a bit harsh on Ms Harding. hahaha I didn't even think of her....I know she didn't sound great but that is a bit harsh!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 12:10:24 GMT
I first saw the show before the cast recording was even out and understood fine. You may not get every single nuance on first viewing but I think that it's rare that you do with any show. Although yes, I would recommend paying full attention and not wandering into a daydream.
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Post by stuart on Feb 7, 2017 12:21:24 GMT
We're talking about spoilers? People do realise that the FIRST SONG in this show tells of the fate of each of the main characters?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 12:26:08 GMT
Not all of them, and only in extremely vague terms. As I said in the other thread on the topic, often the "how" is more of a spoiler than the "what". You find out at the very beginning of Moulin Rouge (it was sixteen years ago ftr) that Nicole Kidman's going to die, that doesn't mean you pull the DVD out of the player shouting about how there's no point in watching it now. And to use the Titanic example that's for some reason raring its head, yes, we all know that the ship sinks and therefore it's apparently HILARIOUS to mock people who don't want spoilers, but we don't know which characters are going to die, which are going to get a happy ending, or which are going to land somewhere in between (a sad survival, for instance). We have our basic historical facts in place, but we watch the show or the movie ANYWAY because we want to see HOW it's going to play out in the context of *this particular* story being told at *this particular* time in *this particular* way by *these particular* people.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 12:52:13 GMT
I'm not actively avoiding media about the show entirely and I will read reviews (I'm seeing it a few days after opening night), but I'm not going to listen to the full cast recording as I think that would spoil it a bit too much. I started off not being too excited about this show (I wasn't overly impressed by their Tonys performances) but have since heard a couple of the songs in isolation in different contexts (Leslie Odom Jr and Cynthia Erivo duetting for one) and got excited about the casting, so have become more intrigued. I'm really looking forward to seeing it, but I want to see what I really think in the moment rather than hyping it up too much before I go, especially as I'm seeing it so early in the run!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 12:56:42 GMT
Not all of them, and only in extremely vague terms. As I said in the other thread on the topic, often the "how" is more of a spoiler than the "what". You find out at the very beginning of Moulin Rouge (it was sixteen years ago ftr) that Nicole Kidman's going to die, that doesn't mean you pull the DVD out of the player shouting about how there's no point in watching it now. And to use the Titanic example that's for some reason raring its head, yes, we all know that the ship sinks and therefore it's apparently HILARIOUS to mock people who don't want spoilers, but we don't know which characters are going to die, which are going to get a happy ending, or which are going to land somewhere in between (a sad survival, for instance). We have our basic historical facts in place, but we watch the show or the movie ANYWAY because we want to see HOW it's going to play out in the context of *this particular* story being told at *this particular* time in *this particular* way by *these particular* people. As someone who mentioned Titanic (in jest...you know a joke thing) I wasn't mocking the person not wanting to spoil the HOW I've mentioned in several posts my aversion to that, and have sympathy for that. And how about having a discussion with these terrible people in person rather than making passive- aggressive comments? the rest of us were having a reasonable discussion, with humour.
I admit it seemed from the original discussion it was an issue with Hamilton himself dying which is, with even a cursory knowledge of history akin to watching Titanic and complaining the ship sinks. So I acknowledge the error there. But I stand by and defend the rest of us for reasonable discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 13:13:04 GMT
Somebody told me who was playing Hamilton the other day. I forget his name, but it wasn't one I recognised, so isn't Lin or Sam McKay.
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Post by Dan213 on Feb 7, 2017 13:54:16 GMT
Somebody told me who was playing Hamilton the other day. I forget his name, but it wasn't one I recognised, so isn't Lin or Sam McKay. Is this a reputable source?
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Post by ali973 on Feb 7, 2017 14:17:33 GMT
Somebody told me who was playing Hamilton the other day. I forget his name, but it wasn't one I recognised, so isn't Lin or Sam McKay. And the most annoying post of the day is brought to you by..you know that most people a) know that it's not Lin or Sam and b) want to know who it is.
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Post by 49thand8th on Feb 7, 2017 15:15:28 GMT
Somebody told me who was playing Hamilton the other day. I forget his name, but it wasn't one I recognised, so isn't Lin or Sam McKay. Thank you so much for this incredibly informative and valuable post.
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Post by showtoones on Feb 7, 2017 20:59:31 GMT
Somebody told me who was playing Hamilton the other day. I forget his name, but it wasn't one I recognised, so isn't Lin or Sam McKay. Thank you so much for this incredibly informative and valuable post. Hmmm...Sam is white so he would never be cast. Not sure why that was even up for discussion. Lin has said he would only cast minority actors in the lead role. And good on him for doing so...
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Post by showtoones on Feb 7, 2017 20:59:44 GMT
Somebody told me who was playing Hamilton the other day. I forget his name, but it wasn't one I recognised, so isn't Lin or Sam McKay. Thank you so much for this incredibly informative and valuable post. Hmmm...Sam is white so he would never be cast. Not sure why that was even up for discussion. Lin has said he would only cast minority actors in the lead role. And good on him for doing so...
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