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Post by karloscar on Jul 9, 2022 7:39:50 GMT
A trustworthy Tory...
Well there's an oxymoron if ever there was one.
Sorting the chuff from the chaff is going to be mighty tricky. So many dodgy opinions, unsavoury alliances and frankly weirdly conflicting beliefs. Who is the least worst option? Haven't a clue.
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2022 7:49:57 GMT
Badenoch and Braverman join the fray. The former is interesting and may play a role.
I’m assuming when Wallace’s policies are known they will be unacceptable to either the MPs or the members. If so I see no route at all for a middle-aged white man to win. This isn’t due to positive discrimination, just due to opportunity and ability. If Labour were running a leadership contest things would probably look different.
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Post by karloscar on Jul 9, 2022 9:32:29 GMT
Badenoch has tried to promotethe transphobic ( and despite their protests homophobic)LGB-Alliance, and Sulala Braverman is "antiwoke" and would bring back Section 28 in a second. Dangerous!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 9:54:07 GMT
I'd accept pretty much anyone who doesn't want to strip people of their rights. If you start finding that human rights get in the way of your policies it's time to consider the possibility that you may actually be the baddie.
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Post by Jon on Jul 9, 2022 10:08:25 GMT
It's just occurred to me that Boris won't be able to skulk off into the sunset after he resigns because as a former PM, he'll have to go to events involving past PMs like Remembrance Sunday.
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2022 10:12:29 GMT
It's just occurred to me that Boris won't be able to skulk off into the sunset after he resigns because as a former PM, he'll have to go to events involving past PMs like Remembrance Sunday. Where he'll join fellow failures Brown, Cameron and May. So no problem. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 9, 2022 10:20:26 GMT
Badenoch and Braverman join the fray. The former is interesting and may play a role. I’m assuming when Wallace’s policies are known they will be unacceptable to either the MPs or the members. If so I see no route at all for a middle-aged white man to win. This isn’t due to positive discrimination, just due to opportunity and ability. If Labour were running a leadership contest things would probably look different. I know you were talking non-middle aged white men, but I was thinking ability this morning. 1990 leadership race contained Margaret Thatcher, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and John Major. I know the party has lurched to the right and the last prime minister probably filled the cabinet with yes men but 1990 was heavy weight. Not too much talent to select from |
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2022 10:29:28 GMT
Badenoch and Braverman join the fray. The former is interesting and may play a role. I’m assuming when Wallace’s policies are known they will be unacceptable to either the MPs or the members. If so I see no route at all for a middle-aged white man to win. This isn’t due to positive discrimination, just due to opportunity and ability. If Labour were running a leadership contest things would probably look different. I know you were talking non-middle aged white men, but I was thinking ability this morning. 1990 leadership race contained Margaret Thatcher, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and John Major. I know the party has lurched to the right and the last prime minister probably filled the cabinet with yes men but 1990 was heavy weight. Not too much talent to select from Major was hopeless, but I agree in general. Same with Labour. Their best candidate in terms of broad appeal, Burnham, isn't even an MP. A very professional slick operation from Team Sunak with websites and videos and so on. That will count heavily against him with both MPs and members. |
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Post by Jon on Jul 9, 2022 10:49:11 GMT
I think appearances is everything when it comes to politics and someone like Sunak or Mordaunt would appeal more to voters than someone like Ben Wallace.
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 9, 2022 11:13:22 GMT
Right, let's clear a couple of things up.
Firstly, apart from a brave handful, very few Board members were complaining about human rights when our lives were heavily restricted. Quite the opposite, in fact. The demand was always for more restrictions and compulsory vaccinations.
Secondly, with the highest tax burden since the war, a belief in big state and all the net zero nonsense, the very idea that this is a right wing government is for the fairies.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 9, 2022 11:17:21 GMT
I know you were talking non-middle aged white men, but I was thinking ability this morning. 1990 leadership race contained Margaret Thatcher, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and John Major. I know the party has lurched to the right and the last prime minister probably filled the cabinet with yes men but 1990 was heavy weight. Not too much talent to select from Major was hopeless, but I agree in general. Same with Labour. Their best candidate in terms of broad appeal, Burnham, isn't even an MP. A very professional slick operation from Team Sunak with websites and videos and so on. That will count heavily against him with both MPs and members. Major was in a hopeless position with party tearing itself apart over Europe. Still Thatcher's chancellor and foreign secretary. He was a political heavyweight. Could Sunak get to those levels, maybe? Same comment with Burnham you made about the tories. Labour party aren't going to elect someone from the left of the party |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 9, 2022 11:25:19 GMT
Right, let's clear a couple of things up. Firstly, apart from a brave handful, very few Board members were complaining about human rights when our lives were heavily restricted. Quite the opposite, in fact. The demand was always for more restrictions and compulsory vaccinations. Secondly, with the highest tax burden since the war, a belief in big state and all the net zero nonsense, the very idea that this is a right wing government is for the fairies. But you know there have been a couple of really big extenuating factors that have caused that. A government definitely driven from the right of the party |
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Post by lichtie on Jul 9, 2022 11:41:12 GMT
Wallace has announced he won't be standing. And they'll probably change the rules to remove the Braverman's and other useless detritus before they get to the first round. The next leader will be one of two choices. A fiscal conservative like Sunak who'll please the old thatcherites or a tax cutting one who'll please the blue wallers (Mordaunt probably). The red wallers will get sunk in the mire...
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 9, 2022 11:42:39 GMT
Ben Wallace has decided not to stand. So that throws the betting wide open.
Sunak looks like he is picking up momentum which might make him unstoppable after a couple of rounds of voting by MPs.
This could all be over by next weekend
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Post by olliebean on Jul 9, 2022 11:57:21 GMT
I know you were talking non-middle aged white men, but I was thinking ability this morning. 1990 leadership race contained Margaret Thatcher, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and John Major. I know the party has lurched to the right and the last prime minister probably filled the cabinet with yes men but 1990 was heavy weight. Not too much talent to select from , but I agree in general. Same with Labour. Their best candidate in terms of broad appeal, Burnham, isn't even an MP. A very professional slick operation from Team Sunak with websites and videos and so on. That will count heavily against him with both MPs and members. Major wasn't even in the same league of hopelessness as the current crop. |
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2022 12:26:49 GMT
Major was hopeless, but I agree in general. Same with Labour. Their best candidate in terms of broad appeal, Burnham, isn't even an MP. A very professional slick operation from Team Sunak with websites and videos and so on. That will count heavily against him with both MPs and members. Major wasn't even in the same league of hopelessness as the current crop. Oh he was, don’t you remember the ERM debacle on Black Wednesday ? The day he put interest rates up to 15% (from an already crazy 10% at the start of the day) ? |
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2022 12:36:40 GMT
Ben Wallace has decided not to stand. So that throws the betting wide open. Sunak looks like he is picking up momentum which might make him unstoppable after a couple of rounds of voting by MPs. This could all be over by next weekend They won’t dare put someone in without a membership vote again. Sunak seems likely to be in the final two that go forward but it won’t be all over. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 9, 2022 12:59:20 GMT
The tory membership chose IDS and Boris.
The Labour members voted for Corbyn
Not sure either is the best advert for giving members a say.
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Post by Jon on Jul 9, 2022 13:02:50 GMT
If Rishi Sunak gets it, what’s the betting that Javid gets Chancellor?
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Post by Jan on Jul 9, 2022 14:12:51 GMT
If Rishi Sunak gets it, what’s the betting that Javid gets Chancellor? Zero. Sunak was a high tax and spend big-state chancellor and Javid isn't, he's spoken out for tax cuts. I quite like Javid but it doesn't look like he's standing, of course claiming non-dom status when he was earning millions in the private sector wouldn't play well with the membership. Both would be better chancellors than Zahawi of course. |
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Post by og on Jul 9, 2022 14:34:37 GMT
I know you were talking non-middle aged white men, but I was thinking ability this morning. 1990 leadership race contained Margaret Thatcher, Michael Heseltine, Douglas Hurd and John Major. I know the party has lurched to the right and the last prime minister probably filled the cabinet with yes men but 1990 was heavy weight. Not too much talent to select from Major was hopeless, but I agree in general. Same with Labour. Their best candidate in terms of broad appeal, Burnham, isn't even an MP. A very professional slick operation from Team Sunak with websites and videos and so on. That will count heavily against him with both MPs and members.
Unsurprisingly he's been working on this behind the scenes for a while, presumably he saw the inevitable coming a long time ago; his campaign website was registered last year! |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jul 9, 2022 17:44:48 GMT
Shapps and Zahawi have joined the race but I think Zahawi will have quit by Monday.
He is under Fraud Squad investigation.
Ed - My mistake, HMRC investigation
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 18:03:52 GMT
Firstly, apart from a brave handful, very few Board members were complaining about human rights when our lives were heavily restricted. Quite the opposite, in fact. The demand was always for more restrictions and compulsory vaccinations. With very good reason for that which you seem to have conveniently forgotten. Those you call "brave" in that regard I would deem reckless instead. There is a huge difference between temporary restrictions on rights to save lives in a global pandemic and permanent deprivation of rights such as we are currently seeing from the US Supreme Court, for example. Or the seeming Tory plan to essentially reject the European Convention on Human Rights, which is just as dangerous. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 9, 2022 18:13:08 GMT
And with both points of view expressed let’s leave that subject there and focus on the next Prime Minister in this thread please
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 18:48:42 GMT
Zahawi just seems like another Boris, possibly worse. He wouldn't move us forward.
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