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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 11, 2022 0:11:09 GMT
Following the inexcusable decision not to include Liz Carr on the main body of the broadcast of the Oliviers, it is only right that we highlight this area where theatre, film and television needs to do so much better.
Yes, steps are being taken
But not enough and not quickly enough
Liz Carr was right to call out the industry in her speech. Shame on ITV for sidelining her in the edit
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Post by d'James on Apr 11, 2022 0:16:44 GMT
It’s such a difficult one. If it was decided before the show that certain awards would be ‘edited down,’ should she have been given more attention at the last minute for having a disability??
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Post by marob on Apr 11, 2022 0:21:21 GMT
I might be wrong, but I don’t think they’ve featured supporting actors (for plays) in previous years either though, have they?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 11, 2022 0:37:20 GMT
They knew the winners in advance. That is how awards ceremonies are run.
They could have structured the broadcast to include the supporting performers in both plays and musicals. But they didn't.
That was a choice they made.
It reflects badly to have sidelined such a noteworthy win. I have checked the past 30 years or so and there have been very few, if any, disabled Actors nominated for an Olivier and I think this was the first win. I may be wrong in that but it certainly looks that way.
Given the unique win for the Life of Pi supporting cast, the supporting awards should have been given greater prominence in the edit.
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Post by marob on Apr 11, 2022 0:42:39 GMT
Yes, they absolutely should be given the same prominence as all the other acting awards, but I’m pretty sure they’ve always been among the neglected categories. That’s part of the problem with it being on ITV. The TV broadcast is very much weighted in favour of musicals, the plays treated as less important, and opera, ballet and the technical categories barely warrant a mention.
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Post by teamyali on Apr 11, 2022 8:41:51 GMT
The Normal Heart has two disabled actors on stage - Liz Carr and Daniel Monks. Daniel’s character, Mickey Marcus, was based on one of the early AIDS activists who was not disabled. The play’s casting also made diverse choices in order to reflect a more inclusive approach on the play - that is, that AIDS does not discriminate anyone. Olivier nominee Danny Lee Wynter, who played Tommy Boatwright, is a Black actor, and Tommy was based on activist Rodger McFarlane (a white guy). Majority of the cast are gay (unlike The Inheritance…eh?!).
Daniel Monks is next to be seen in Jamie Lloyd’s much-awaited staging of The Seagull, playing Konstantin. If it becomes a hit this summer, we might have Daniel getting an Olivier next year. His star is rising and he also writes his own work (he did a film not long ago which he wrote and starred in it). It’s a long way to go for disabled performers. I hope this becomes a movement, and not just a moment.
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Post by jojo on Apr 11, 2022 10:04:23 GMT
Yes, they absolutely should be given the same prominence as all the other acting awards, but I’m pretty sure they’ve always been among the neglected categories. That’s part of the problem with it being on ITV. The TV broadcast is very much weighted in favour of musicals, the plays treated as less important, and opera, ballet and the technical categories barely warrant a mention. These decisions would be made well in advance, probably before they know the nominees, never mind the winners, but it does seem defeatist for the tv coverage to side-line a category that ended up being won by a recognisable face from tv. It seems to me they've made a decision that their target audience watching the Oliviers on tv are people who see a few shows a year, and most of them will be musicals. Plays rarely run for long enough for their recognition at the Oliviers to be a reason that tv viewers will buy tickets the next time they are in town. You'd think as they'd gone to the effort of filming it all, there would be an easy option for ITV2 to screen an extended version of the ceremony later in the week with minimal editing. On a more positive note, and in keeping with the title of the thread, last night (during the gap between watching the Oliviers arrivals on YouTube and the ITV broadcast) I was catching up With "The Cleaner" with Greg Davis on iPlayer. Episode 3 "The Neighbour" stars Ruth Madeley who was excellent. What's great about Liz is that she takes on so many parts where the character didn't need to be a wheelchair user, and her disability is incidental to the role. |
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2022 12:32:57 GMT
Comedian Rosie Jones, who has cerebral palsy, has been doing brilliant work in Casualty over the last few weeks, she's also a fantastic stand up.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 12, 2022 13:25:22 GMT
I am all over this and believe the stage is a brilliant place for ‘disabled actors’ but saying that disabled actors are still very much underrepresented, which is a great shame.
When I saw Liz Carr, I said then she deserved the Olivier, she was simply fantastic, in a production I was very tepid on.
However if the Olivier committee broke with convention to accommodate a disabled actor, then they would be criticised, as pandering, they cannot win.
I mean some people knit pick and want to get offended over the slightest thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 13:31:36 GMT
Shows like Corrie, Call the Midwife and The A Word have all used actors with disabilities in recent years. The RSC pre pandemic was making an active effort to cast hearing and visually impaired, wheelchair users, dwarves and people missing part of an arm ( I cannot recall the ladies' name but she was excellent in her role and you didn't notice her disability as the play went on).
Peter Dinklage has just played the title role in a major film away from typecasting roles.
I certainly feel that any characters which have underlying conditions integral to the role should where possible be played by performers with that or a similar condition. I know bang goes a lot of potential Oscar nominated roles for able bodied actors but I think that has to be accepted.
I would not use that rule for gay, lesbian roles as both straight and gay actors play either part so I think that balances out. Trans roles I'D certainly hope trans actors would be cast along the lines with disability roles. Neighbours have had a trans female character in for the last few years and the girl playing her transitioned in younger life.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 12, 2022 13:31:58 GMT
Oh also I highly recommend the sitcom Jerk, which I think is on iPlayer still. Comedian Tim Renkow, who also has cerebral palsy, plays a version of himself who is deliberately awful, to manipulate those around him through making them uncomfortable about his disability.
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Post by Phantom of London on Apr 12, 2022 16:09:46 GMT
Cannot recall exactly but there have been several times I have seen shows and there have been an actress with a upper body disability, Could be the same lady though, if it was she played the roles very well.
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Post by jojo on Apr 12, 2022 16:47:59 GMT
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2022 17:37:23 GMT
Yes, they absolutely should be given the same prominence as all the other acting awards, but I’m pretty sure they’ve always been among the neglected categories. That’s part of the problem with it being on ITV. The TV broadcast is very much weighted in favour of musicals, the plays treated as less important, and opera, ballet and the technical categories barely warrant a mention. These decisions would be made well in advance, probably before they know the nominees, never mind the winners, but it does seem defeatist for the tv coverage to side-line a category that ended up being won by a recognisable face from tv. It seems to me they've made a decision that their target audience watching the Oliviers on tv are people who see a few shows a year, and most of them will be musicals. Plays rarely run for long enough for their recognition at the Oliviers to be a reason that tv viewers will buy tickets the next time they are in town. You'd think as they'd gone to the effort of filming it all, there would be an easy option for ITV2 to screen an extended version of the ceremony later in the week with minimal editing. On a more positive note, and in keeping with the title of the thread, last night (during the gap between watching the Oliviers arrivals on YouTube and the ITV broadcast) I was catching up With "The Cleaner" with Greg Davis on iPlayer. Episode 3 "The Neighbour" stars Ruth Madeley who was excellent. What's great about Liz is that she takes on so many parts where the character didn't need to be a wheelchair user, and her disability is incidental to the role. The Oliviers are never going to air on ITV2, it's a youth skewed channel. It might have perhaps on ITV3 which is older skewing but truthfully it just doesn't rate well enough to justify airing more than highlights. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2022 18:03:25 GMT
The girl I saw at the RSC had a similar condition to Melissa - I'll have to look up her name as she was really good when she was in the company. I can remember in the 2000's when CBBC got kick back from using Cerrie Burnell ( now a highly successful children's author) who has a similar condition as a presenter. Hopefully things are much more positive now. I noticed when they did a 50th anniversary piece about Newsround they have a wheelchair user as a presenter on that show so CBBC are making positive moves which is good. |
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Post by Jon on Apr 12, 2022 19:29:45 GMT
Shows like Corrie, Call the Midwife and The A Word have all used actors with disabilities in recent years. The RSC pre pandemic was making an active effort to cast hearing and visually impaired, wheelchair users, dwarves and people missing part of an arm ( I cannot recall the ladies' name but she was excellent in her role and you didn't notice her disability as the play went on). Peter Dinklage has just played the title role in a major film away from typecasting roles. I certainly feel that any characters which have underlying conditions integral to the role should where possible be played by performers with that or a similar condition. I know bang goes a lot of potential Oscar nominated roles for able bodied actors but I think that has to be accepted.
I would not use that rule for gay, lesbian roles as both straight and gay actors play either part so I think that balances out. Trans roles I'D certainly hope trans actors would be cast along the lines with disability roles. Neighbours have had a trans female character in for the last few years and the girl playing her transitioned in younger life. I think it'd be tricky to be stick to just casting actors with underlying conditions, The Theory of Everything where Eddie Redmayne played Stephen Hawking needed to show the progression of Hawking's motor neuron disease and it's simply not possible to have someone who has the disease play the part. |
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Post by jojo on Apr 12, 2022 22:10:34 GMT
I think it's different if the disease is progressive, and the story starts before they have any visible symptoms. It would be unrealistic to expect that.
I also remember a discussion on The Last Leg where the guys there, who have artificial legs, said they were delighted to be represented by someone like The Rock in a big film, playing someone with an artificial leg.
There's two sides to this. There's the people at home who want to see themselves represented on screen, and then there's the actors who want to do the representing. Realistically, there's currently no actor with an artificial leg that has the profile, or box office appeal, of The Rock, so we end up in a chicken and egg situation. It could be a long wait to find an actor with an artificial leg that can lead a big budget film, yet without being given the opportunity to shine, there never will be.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 0:52:29 GMT
I agree about the progressive conditions such as in The Theory of Everything but in a film like Rainman where the condition was there from when character first appeared you'd have the chance to use a person with the condition for example.
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