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Post by peggs on Jan 2, 2022 16:43:23 GMT
I would also say Cush Jumbo, her Hamlet was fantastic. I remember really liking her Mark Antony as well. As someone who spends a fair amount of time at the Globe I have to suggest Michelle Terry, for me she's rather like Simon Russell Beale in that they both make the language seem really normal and lucid and like it's the most natural thing in the world to be talking. I feel there must be more female actors but I can't quite think who. As noted the options for actors having repeat opportunities at Shakespeare is perhaps now lessened so does limit the opportunities for having seen the same person attempt multiple roles.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 2, 2022 19:46:01 GMT
I haven't seen Michelle Terry at the Globe but I wasn't over impressed by her at the RSC in the LLL amd Much Ado season
She was decent as Beatrice/Rosaline but didn't give truly memorable performances that redefine what we should expect from those roles
I haven't been impressed by her choices since taking over the Globe.
So not a top flight Shakespearean for my tastes but I know she has many admirers.
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Post by peggs on Jan 2, 2022 20:25:22 GMT
If we're looking for performances that redefine what we expect from roles will they be by definition few and far between? And I wonder how much you need to have seen of a particular play to make that call? I've seen people play roles and they've done things afresh for me but I'm aware that while I've seen what I consider a reasonable amount of Shakespeare it's no where near what some people have seen on here and only over a relatively short period of time. So what I consider new may well have been done before sort of thing. Do you have any examples oxfordsimon that you'd consider redefining from say the last 15 years that I might have seen? We'll have to agree to disagree regarding Michelle Terry.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 2, 2022 21:35:39 GMT
Susannah Fielding in the Las Vegas Merchant completely reinvented Portia for me. She made the play into the Tragedy of Portia rather than the Shylock play.
Pippa Nixon in King John did something remarkable with the Bastard (though I know there are some here who hated that production)
I think creating a truly memorable interpretation is central to being a great Shakespearean.
Would Tony Sher have made each an impact if he hadn't reimagined Richard III in such a way as to make people forget about Olivier?
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Post by peggs on Jan 2, 2022 21:55:27 GMT
Missed that merchant and rather kicked myself afterwards and didn't see the king john either sadly (is this the one with the infamous balloons?
Memorable in the sense of across a period of time, with critics and directors and audiences?
I take your point but it's rather like when I read anything and someone references some great definitive actor/performance that I have no experience of. It means little as I don't have them to forget in the first place.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 2, 2022 22:32:33 GMT
Yes, the brilliant use of balloons!
There are certain performances that become iconic. Sher and McKellen did that with Richard III. Olivier did it with Hamlet, Henry V and Richard III for the previous generation
They are performances that reach out beyond the theatre that become part of our wider culture.
It is probably harder for female actors as their Shakespeare roles are rarely as dominant in the plays. It is really tough to make a role such as Viola truly unique. This probably comes down to the original boy actor casting pool.
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Post by sweets7 on Jan 3, 2022 1:07:10 GMT
Yes, the brilliant use of balloons! There are certain performances that become iconic. Sher and McKellen did that with Richard III. Olivier did it with Hamlet, Henry V and Richard III for the previous generation They are performances that reach out beyond the theatre that become part of our wider culture. It is probably harder for female actors as their Shakespeare roles are rarely as dominant in the plays. It is really tough to make a role such as Viola truly unique. This probably comes down to the original boy actor casting pool. There wre many good femal parts. Rosalind. Lady M...even Juliette. Beatrice done well, and not just for laughs. And as the Bastard 'is' male...well we aren't stuck to a gendered definition of a part.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 4:22:07 GMT
I guess the short answer is no, but times are changing. Our best Shakespearean actors come from a time in place where they were trained as stage actors, before screen acting was seen as a viable career path, and the closest thing to a franchise was working your way through the Shakespeare canon.
That isn’t the reality for the generations that came next, but we still have a decent crop of actors wanting to perform Shakespeare. David Tennant, Benedict Cumberbatch, Jude Law, Andrew Scott, James McAvoy, Tom Hiddleston, Ben Whishaw and Rory Kinnear all in the 40 - 50 age bracket and all have performed Shakespeare on stage and/or screen in recent times.
Incidentally, all opted to perform Shakespeare after finding success as part of a large screen franchise - Marvel, X-Men, Doctor Who, Bond etc. So whilst I guess being a great Shakespearean actor isn’t the backbone of acting it might once have been, there is still an attraction to performing Shakespeare after Hollywood comes knocking.
In the 30 - 40 bracket, I guess we have Kit Harrington and Richard Madden doing the same, both known primarily for Game of Thrones and opting to perform Shakespeare afterwards (though Kit’s is upcoming).
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 3, 2022 10:31:45 GMT
Yes, the brilliant use of balloons! There are certain performances that become iconic. Sher and McKellen did that with Richard III. Olivier did it with Hamlet, Henry V and Richard III for the previous generation They are performances that reach out beyond the theatre that become part of our wider culture. It is probably harder for female actors as their Shakespeare roles are rarely as dominant in the plays. It is really tough to make a role such as Viola truly unique. This probably comes down to the original boy actor casting pool. There wre many good femal parts. Rosalind. Lady M...even Juliette. Beatrice done well, and not just for laughs. And as the Bastard 'is' male...well we aren't stuck to a gendered definition of a part. There are indeed good female roles but rarely ones that seem to garner the same sort of attention/accolades as the male roles. Thus is undoubtedly unfair. But it seems inherent in the scripts and it takes a special combination of director and actor to change those perceptions. Pippa Nixon was an outstanding Rosalind for the RSC but it didn't get her the plaudits she deserved. Not everything she did at the RSC was amazing. Her Ophelia opposite Slinger was less successful. And the production of Dream where she was Titania is best not remembered. But the fault with both lies with poor directorial choices.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 3, 2022 11:48:31 GMT
Henry V is an excellent role and one that an actor can become a true Shakespearean, judging by the past performances, I am far from certain, it is one that Kit Harrington can pull off, I maybe and hope i'm wrong though.
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Post by Jan on Jan 3, 2022 11:49:59 GMT
If we're looking for performances that redefine what we expect from roles will they be by definition few and far between? Do you have any examples oxfordsimon that you'd consider redefining from say the last 15 years that I might have seen? Two I can think of in plays that I've seen a dozen times each are: Forbes Masson as Fool in the Rupert Goold/Pete Postelthwaite King Lear (2009) Anna Maxwell Martin as Isabella in the Almeida Measure for Measure (2010) They both made perfect sense of those roles in a way I'd never seen before (or since).
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 3, 2022 13:25:37 GMT
Josette Simon was my first Isabella and the only one who convinced me at the end when she slapped the Duke across the face for daring to propose to her and walked off. Brilliant moment and one I remember from the late 80s.
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Post by adolphus on Jan 3, 2022 14:07:44 GMT
Alex Hassell, a terrific Henry V, and so impressive as Ross in the new Macbeth film. Kathryn Hunter who plays the Witches is another great.
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Post by justfran on Jan 3, 2022 15:10:22 GMT
I guess the short answer is no, but times are changing. Our best Shakespearean actors come from a time in place where they were trained as stage actors, before screen acting was seen as a viable career path, and the closest thing to a franchise was working your way through the Shakespeare canon. That isn’t the reality for the generations that came next, but we still have a decent crop of actors wanting to perform Shakespeare. David Tennant, Benedict Cumberbatch, Jude Law, Andrew Scott, James McAvoy, Tom Hiddleston, Ben Whishaw and Rory Kinnear all in the 40 - 50 age bracket and all have performed Shakespeare on stage and/or screen in recent times. Incidentally, all opted to perform Shakespeare after finding success as part of a large screen franchise - Marvel, X-Men, Doctor Who, Bond etc. So whilst I guess being a great Shakespearean actor isn’t the backbone of acting it might once have been, there is still an attraction to performing Shakespeare after Hollywood comes knocking. In the 30 - 40 bracket, I guess we have Kit Harrington and Richard Madden doing the same, both known primarily for Game of Thrones and opting to perform Shakespeare afterwards (though Kit’s is upcoming). Ben Whishaw was actually nominated for an Olivier Award for his performance in Hamlet in 2004, which was long before he joined Bond so not always Shakespeare after a film franchise 😊
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Post by Jan on Jan 3, 2022 16:03:27 GMT
Henry V is an excellent role and one that an actor can become a true Shakespearean, judging by the past performances, I am far from certain, it is one that Kit Harrington can pull off, I maybe and hope i'm wrong though. Agree but let’s see. I had similar misgivings about casting Martin Freeman as Richard III and in that case I was right. He was box office but badly miscast.
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Post by lynette on Jan 3, 2022 17:43:37 GMT
I guess the short answer is no, but times are changing. Our best Shakespearean actors come from a time in place where they were trained as stage actors, before screen acting was seen as a viable career path, and the closest thing to a franchise was working your way through the Shakespeare canon. That isn’t the reality for the generations that came next, but we still have a decent crop of actors wanting to perform Shakespeare. David Tennant, Benedict Cumberbatch, Jude Law, Andrew Scott, James McAvoy, Tom Hiddleston, Ben Whishaw and Rory Kinnear all in the 40 - 50 age bracket and all have performed Shakespeare on stage and/or screen in recent times. Incidentally, all opted to perform Shakespeare after finding success as part of a large screen franchise - Marvel, X-Men, Doctor Who, Bond etc. So whilst I guess being a great Shakespearean actor isn’t the backbone of acting it might once have been, there is still an attraction to performing Shakespeare after Hollywood comes knocking. In the 30 - 40 bracket, I guess we have Kit Harrington and Richard Madden doing the same, both known primarily for Game of Thrones and opting to perform Shakespeare afterwards (though Kit’s is upcoming). Ben Whishaw was actually nominated for an Olivier Award for his performance in Hamlet in 2004, which was long before he joined Bond so not always Shakespeare after a film franchise 😊 And Tennant was at the RSC slogging away well before Dr Who. Same with Kinnear, best Tranio I’ve seen. Spose if you didn't see these guys early on you wouldn’t know but most of the people we think have become ‘famous’ post tv/movie role have worked hard well before. If you read Brian Cox’s autobiography, you can see just how hard these actors have to work.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2022 13:41:03 GMT
Sorry, by saying they ‘all opted to perform Shakespeare after finding success as part of a large screen franchise’, I do mean they made a deliberate choice to perform Shakespeare after finding franchise fame - it wasn’t a claim they hadn’t previously.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 4, 2022 14:12:02 GMT
I would say it is as rare as hen's teeth that someone can be a great Shakespearian and perform excellently in musical theatre, this is the case though in a not too young Roger Allam.
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Post by Jan on Jan 4, 2022 14:51:04 GMT
I would say it is as rare as hen's teeth that someone can be a great Shakespearian and perform excellently in musical theatre, this is the case though in a not too young Roger Allam. Robert Lindsay.
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Post by cavocado on Jan 4, 2022 15:22:37 GMT
I would say it is as rare as hen's teeth that someone can be a great Shakespearian and perform excellently in musical theatre, this is the case though in a not too young Roger Allam. Robert Lindsay. Alun Armstrong has done both. Wish he'd done some of the older Shakespeare roles.
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Post by Jan on Jan 4, 2022 15:55:00 GMT
Alun Armstrong has done both. Wish he'd done some of the older Shakespeare roles. From the previous generation Denis Quilley was a good example.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2022 16:02:32 GMT
Alex Waldmann and Pippa Nixon should have been better nurtured by the RSC. Both have a real facility for Shakespeare but have moved away from the Bard of late. They would be a great pairing for Much Ado and Macbeth They were Boyd actors weren’t they ? Like Slinger. Purged by Doran. Waldman was in the Wars of the Roses revival more recently at Kingston as far as I remember. I’d like Michael Sheen to do some more Shakespeare. Unlikely though. I haven't really kept track of whether Greg Doran has used certain actors in plays under his watch. Also would he oversee all the casting as his associates and guest directors will steer over half the plays a year. Michael Boyd I saw as more of the Artistic Planning side whilst I see greg more as a Director. How much an Artistic Director actually directs a season is always an open question. Does their contract state maximium or min numbers, if they are on a large salary and don't direct hardly then questions could be asked. But if they are programming good stuff, getting good audiences and positive reviews if they direct they are seen as a good director but if they delegate and bring in other directors to helm the plays they can be seen as doing a good job equally but more on the planning and programming side.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2022 16:06:29 GMT
Alan Rickman? The Harry Potter costume department head said that the way he managed to swish Snape's costume's cloak in the exact same way was Shakespearan. “I will always remember, we were shooting in a bathroom and [Malfoy] is on the floor,” Temime continued, presumably referring to when Malfoy and Harry faced off in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. “Then, Alan runs with the cape on top of his costume. He crawls on the floor and he leans next to the shape on the ground. He did that 20 times, and 20 times the cape was exactly, precisely draped on the floor in a perfect position. I think you have to be a Shakespearean actor to do that.” Snape's outfit could have been Richard III costume. Alan sadly missed.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 4, 2022 16:09:15 GMT
Just had a look at Robert Lindsay and he has done more Shakespeare on film/television, but certainly has performed the bard. Now Alum Armstrong I would think would make an excellent Lear, saying that Armstrong hasn’t performed on stage in years, there maybe other reasons for that, I hope not. I have never seen Alun perform on stage. Robert Lindsay I always think he is more comedic and couldn’t play Lear, he would play an excellent Shylock or Lord Frederick.
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Post by Jan on Jan 4, 2022 16:51:15 GMT
Just had a look at Robert Lindsay and he has done more Shakespeare on film/television, but certainly has performed the bard. Now Alum Armstrong I would think would make an excellent Lear, saying that Armstrong hasn’t performed on stage in years, there maybe other reasons for that, I hope not. I have never seen Alun perform on stage. Robert Lindsay I always think he is more comedic and couldn’t play Lear, he would play an excellent Shylock or Lord Frederick. Lindsay played Richard III for the RSC so that puts him in the top rank. Years ago I saw him play Hamlet. Henry Goodman is another RSC Richard III who has been in musicals too.
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