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Post by edi on Sept 8, 2021 7:05:04 GMT
I couldn't find a seperate thead...
I saw it yesterday, first review I believe.
Brilliant actors held my attention throughout and I cannot believe just how many contemporary issues the play discussed. Specifically the Italian teacher subject was very strong (for me).
However I couldn't figure out until this morning why I didn't quite love this:
- the characters come accross too insightful for their age
- the scenery is too bleak for a summer camp. I am sure this one was carefully thought out, but it didn't work for me.
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Post by cavocado on Sept 8, 2021 8:52:47 GMT
I agree with most of what you say edi.
Brilliant performances from both actors.
Interesting/relevant themes - the growth of fascism/extreme ideologies and related indoctrination and radicalisation, issues around grooming, safeguarding, consent, etc.
I am not sure about the characters being too insightful (I think the Patsy Ferran character was probably autistic?), but I really wanted another character or two to walk on and give us a different perspective, which isn't something I nornally feel in two handers, so felt something was lacking in the writing. I didn't feel I knew enough about the off-stage characters and relationships to feel these two were fully rounded. I just didn't feel like the parents and aunt were real people despite there being a lot of discussion about them. The exception was the way the relationship with the teacher was introduced and developed - I think that was really sensitively and slowly woven into the story. There was also was a bit too much heavy handed explaining, rather than letting us gradually notice/realise what is happening, e.g. Ferran's character has to spell out more than once that girls were being coerced into sex.
I agree about the scenery. I liked it when they were moving among the wood planks at one point, otherwise it just looked like beige vertical blinds and didn't feel very summery at all.
Overall it was flawed, but worth seeing for Ferran and Thallon.
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 8, 2021 21:29:19 GMT
I went along tonight with no expectations and an open mind – and was absolutely bowled over! I’m no fan of two-handers and the last of these I thoroughly enjoyed was achooly Claire Foy and Matt Smith in the same space. This is more. At the same time, though, it has qualities I last saw with The Doctor (Almeida pre-Covid, enroute to the West End and New York). I do hope word of mouth sells this one. Superb structure and dialogue, smart, subtle contemporary layers, plus wonderful, committed acting by both, and - at least for me - perfect, restrained staging. Loved Bess Wohl's quiet rage, cheeky humour and nuanced style. So much to say: not giving anything away but added to comments above how about the daughters name of the NYC professional, the squinty horizon – so many perfectly pitched signals. I hour 40 mins. straight through. Seats available. I'll revisit.
5 pre-mixed cans of Gina and Tony out of 5.
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Post by peggs on Sept 8, 2021 21:42:44 GMT
Due there sat. How sane did it seems inside now back to full capacity?
I haven't been sent an arrival time yet, are they still doing those?
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 8, 2021 21:47:19 GMT
I was at the Barbican on Sunday and almost no one in masks. More tonight - different crowd.
They did a quick temp test on your wrist and that was it. I asked for a mask and they had to go and find one in an office. Staff very relaxed about it all, some masked. No queuing.
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Post by cavocado on Sept 9, 2021 9:46:48 GMT
Due there sat. How sane did it seems inside now back to full capacity? I haven't been sent an arrival time yet, are they still doing those? I had an arrival time on my ticket, but it was 7.10-7.25, which is the normal time I'd arrive anyway, so not sure if people would stick to their times if it was much earlier, but it didn't seem very crowded going in. There was more of a scrum on the way out - very crowded foyer and the usual long queue for the 'cubicle' loos, but generally it felt quite orderly. Looking round before the start and on the way out, the vast majority were wearing masks, and there was an ironically maskless usher holding up a sign saying 'please wear masks'. |
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 9, 2021 10:22:44 GMT
Trying to remember how to do spoiler code - can anyone help?
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Post by Dave B on Sept 9, 2021 10:27:56 GMT
Trying to remember how to do spoiler code - can anyone help?
If you click reply and then click the furthest button on the formatting toolbar - it's suppose to be a smiley with a hand gesturing shush ... I think - it will pop you up a box to enter spoilers into.
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 9, 2021 10:33:51 GMT
thanks ... lets see
{Spoiler - click to view}
I read it as she specifically went to NYC in order to try and find a doctor willing to do the abortion.
It was illegal and so it was something that could only be done very discretely, something which was facilitated by the receptionist/gatekeeper being the doctor’s wife.
The only doctor she could find willing to do it was Jewish, and the procedure required an overnight stay.
Thoughts?
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Post by fossil on Sept 9, 2021 10:35:38 GMT
Just received this email. More PwC tickets today:
TICKETS RELEASED FROM 12PM
To celebrate the first week of the world premiere of Bess Wohl's Camp Siegfried, we're releasing a limited number* of PwC £10 Tickets and £20 tickets at 12 noon today for performances from 13–21 Sep (excluding 17 Sep).
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 9, 2021 10:59:34 GMT
Done for next Tuesday, with grateful donation.
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Post by cavocado on Sept 9, 2021 11:21:30 GMT
Re the spoiler, that's exactly how I interpreted it.
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Post by cavocado on Sept 9, 2021 11:22:52 GMT
Not quite sure how I managed to put my reply into a spoiler there. I didn't mean to, it doesn't give anything away.
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Post by edi on Sept 9, 2021 16:06:44 GMT
Re the spoiler: neither I nor my partner interpreted it that way, but on reflection probably you are right.
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Post by adolphus on Sept 9, 2021 16:49:03 GMT
A gripping, thought-provoking play, and the acting really is terrific {Spoiler - click to view}
I also took that to be the reason for her trip, but felt that perhaps she really hadn't been pregnant after all, and that this delusion triggered awareness of her other delusions - about love and passion, Jewish people etc.
But you could be right, and she would of course be reluctant to tell him what really happened |
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 9, 2021 17:11:45 GMT
A few bits and bobs before I forget ..Just going to say a little bit about why the Old Vic selected this particular new work, at this particular time i.e. why this, why now … just an opinion {Spoiler - a bit indulgent}
The overarching theme seems to reduce to hot-headed, nationalism/nativism vs. reflective, self-determining liberalism. And this is presented from the pov of anti-Trump, anti-Brexit, but the bite is well-hidden.
At the end, yer emerging Liberal asserts control over her body (choosing to not be a baby machine) and Nativist sacrifices his (to the war machine). This is pretty loaded stuff (good/baaad).
tbh, I thought the end – the wistful gaze to the horizon and ‘Europe’ - was a tad heavy-handed but, hey, also amusing. I would imagine that could have been workshopped in after the script arrived in London from the US.
As I reflect on it, I think the thing that is staying with me is the shifting power between them. |
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Post by Forrest on Sept 11, 2021 7:52:17 GMT
I saw this last night, and am a bit divided on it - some things were great, some less so. The amazing bits: the acting - the two of them are superb and a joy to watch!; the staging - I loved the incredibly effective minimalism of it. I also enjoyed, although I'm not sure if this was done deliberately or not, the contrast between them being positioned either really far away from each other (a nod to the crazy times we are in?) or really close (mostly when kissing). I don't know why but it made me think about the staging in context somehow, and made the play seem more... in the moment? Is that silly? Probably is. I also liked the dialogues - in this respect, the writing is witty and entertaining, and it does a great job switching both from lighter to darker, as the play progresses, but also in terms of depicting the shifts in their allegiances. The not so amazing bit: the text itself in terms of what it was trying to say. To me it felt a little like Hannah Arendt 101 (and I do love Arendt!), a depiction of radicalisation and the mindlessness of it, and how easy we are to embrace that what gives us a place, even if originally it wasn't really compatible with our own beliefs/mindset (more rational), if it provides a certain safety (the more emotional side of it). {Spoiler - click to view}
In the beginning she thinks Hitler is a little crazy, and this corresponds to her not feeling comfortable in the camp, either, but as time progresses and starts taking pride in the awards, finding her footing in it all, culminating in the speech - she becomes more and more radical, only to take a 180 turn when she leaves the environment and is able to see it all for what it really is; with him it's a bit of the opposite, somewhere along the line the personal takes over, his focus shifts to the two of them, before heartbreak brings him back to the ideals, but he is also more naive, which is a good depiction by the writer of different ways we process ideology, and all the factors that make us somehow susceptible to it. It's also a nice case for more love as the antidote to hate (the doctor's family, she says, made her realise and feel what love is), which is a little naive, but ultimately beautiful. But for a play set in such an incredibly interesting environment, perhaps I expected it to have something more to say and a clearer sense of direction. londonpostie , I think you might be right. Although I interpreted it as... {Spoiler - click to view}
...her not having been pregnant in the first place, and that disillusionment being sort of key to breaking the spell of the camp and its ideals, together with the warmth she felt from the doctor's family. But both versions could certainly be true.
But I would say, if in doubt go see this for the cast, they are incredible. :) EDIT: Sorry about the formatting, I have no idea what happened there... |
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 11, 2021 8:44:09 GMT
Excellent @forrest  Okay so ...
{Spoiler - click to view}
Fwiw, I would have been happy with the view you express but for two things; the over-arching structure just doesn’t make enough sense to me unless she does take back control of her body; structurally, there must be that contrast. IMO!
Also, it's vital the character – the ‘heroine’, the emergent Feminist – is seen to use her own evidence-based reasoning for her choices, in order to contrast with the Nationalist/Nativist male (who is propagandised).
That evidence is provided by her very immediate experience with the empathetic family, who I think we are provided with just sufficient clues to establish is Jewish.
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Post by crowblack on Sept 11, 2021 8:46:50 GMT
Are there any plans to livestream this, or make a recording available? I'd love to see it, particularly for that cast, but I live with a clinically vulnerable relative and can't justify the risk of the long train journey plus theatre visit right now (cases on the rise but so many people seem to be acting like it's over!).
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Post by Forrest on Sept 11, 2021 9:38:01 GMT
londonpostie , you do make a compelling argument in terms of there being a need for a contrast, but... {Spoiler - click to view}
I have to admit that I didn't see her as particularly feminist at the end. Perhaps I should have, and you are right, in the context of them discussing the heroes it would make perfect sense for her to become a heroine in her own right. I think this is why I didn't see the need for it to be an abortion. I just saw her as finally opening her eyes and going back to the person who she was in the beginning, who questioned things rather than took them for granted, which aligns nicely with your need for an evidence-based argument. It's just that for me the sufficient evidence was the eye-opening kindness of the Jewish family.
(The family is definitely Jewish, btw. For me it was the mention of "dumplings in the soup" that gave it away. Something both my friend and I found pretty funny.)
It's an excellent and well rounded perspective you've provided, and you are probably spot on! :)
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Post by Forrest on Sept 11, 2021 9:43:24 GMT
crowblack, I haven't found any information on this, but am leaning towards saying yes. I think the Old Vic has really embraced the idea of theatre on screen, and would not be surprised if this became available to watch. londonpostie, that last sentence where I agree with you was meant to go outside of the spoiler, so that I don't end it at a "but...", but I cannot figure out how to do it! This way my post conveys an entirely wrong sentiment if one doesn't click on the spoiler. :)
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Post by edi on Sept 11, 2021 10:30:37 GMT
I cannot do spoiler and I won't try to figure it out on my phone...
...but I totally took it like @forrest. Especially that the characters swayed between being personal and/or ideological, so both interpretation fits with the characters and the arch of the story.
I hope i explained it well
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Post by londonpostie on Sept 11, 2021 11:05:10 GMT
{Spoiler - click to view}
dumplings indeed! Also perhaps the childrens' names. The daughter was Rachel - both a popular Jewish name and also someone with her own fertility story in the bible. |
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Post by crowblack on Sept 13, 2021 11:25:16 GMT
crowblack , I haven't found any information on this, but am leaning towards saying yes. I think the Old Vic has really embraced the idea of theatre on screen, and would not be surprised if this became available to watch. londonpostie , that last sentence where I agree with you was meant to go outside of the spoiler, so that I don't end it at a "but...", but I cannot figure out how to do it! This way my post conveys an entirely wrong sentiment if one doesn't click on the spoiler. Thanks, I do hope so. I can see why theatres wouldn't want to announce that in advance as they want bums on seats, but removing accessibility boundaries and reaching out to a more diverse and potentially global audience must surely be recognised as the way forward now, especially given that physically attending a theatre is still unsafe for many. |
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Post by theatrefan77 on Sept 13, 2021 15:32:44 GMT
I was a bit disappointed with this. The first two thirds were good but after that the play doesn't seem to go anywhere. Being staged in such a big theatre didn't help. It would have worked much better in a smaller space like the Young Vic or the Donmar.
Both actors were good, but overall it was all a bit meh.
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Okay so ...
