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Post by stagebyte on Apr 2, 2022 0:05:27 GMT
When they say a mask ‘alongside the Punchdrunk mask’ Will we be supplied with a theatrical mask like I’ve seen in photos of their other productions?
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Post by Steffi on Apr 2, 2022 7:20:31 GMT
When they say a mask ‘alongside the Punchdrunk mask’ Will we be supplied with a theatrical mask like I’ve seen in photos of their other productions? They provide you with their signature Punchdrunk mask (the venetian type mask they have been using in other productions). You wear it on top of whatever face covering you bring yourself (can be a cloth or a medical mask).
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Post by stagebyte on Apr 2, 2022 16:00:52 GMT
When they say a mask ‘alongside the Punchdrunk mask’ Will we be supplied with a theatrical mask like I’ve seen in photos of their other productions? They provide you with their signature Punchdrunk mask (the venetian type mask they have been using in other productions). You wear it on top of whatever face covering you bring yourself (can be a cloth or a medical mask). Thank you for replying Is the Venetian one mandatory?
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Post by Steffi on Apr 2, 2022 16:37:21 GMT
They provide you with their signature Punchdrunk mask (the venetian type mask they have been using in other productions). You wear it on top of whatever face covering you bring yourself (can be a cloth or a medical mask). Thank you for replying Is the Venetian one mandatory? Yes, it’s part of Punchdrunk’s show concept and has to be worn by every audience member. Basically its there to distinguish between audience and staff (performers and in show stewards) while in the performance space. You can take off the Venetian mask whenever you enter the bar which is open from about one hour into the performance.
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Post by partytentdown on Apr 6, 2022 9:36:12 GMT
Some thoughts on 'Burnt City' a.k.a. 'Wafting Around a Warehouse'... spoilers akimbo. {Spoiler - click to view}
For context, I consider myself an admirer of Punchdrunk's work - I have seen most of their work in the last 15 years at least once - and have come to realise I much prefer their smaller projects (which of course are harder to get tickets for).
This has the usual Punchdrunk aesthetic and their new self-owned venue appears very impressive (when you squint), albeit pretty much carpeted throughout which does remove a certain sense of otherworldliness.
Now - take the following whinge with a pinch of salt, because I am rather angry at myself: I discovered after the show that I had completely missed an entire section of the experience. It's divided into two areas - Mycenae and Troy - and you're in some kind of 'time mix up' between the two, as you encounter scenes from Ancient times mixed with some 1920s archaeologists who have gotten involved in some kind of mythical misadventures.
You are led in to the building via a 'museum tour' of ancient artefacts which, I think, give hints about the story you're about to see (but it was so dark I didn't take much of it in, and at this stage it's not even clear what you're seeing is relevant) and (it turns out) you end up in one of either Mycenae or Troy. I think I was in Mycenae, but there is nothing to confirm this. It's a big area on two levels with a couple of sandy side areas. There is a long table on the top level/balcony upon which various scenes play out and there are some cool light displays. Apparently, the Troy area is more modern, with a bar, neon lights, hotel rooms etc - BUT I CAN'T CONFIRM BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE IT! I just didn't find it. I had no idea it existed. I had no idea who any of the characters were or what was going on. I only have a passing understanding of Greek mythology so I would say 99% of what was going on was lost to me. To be honest, I hate to say it, but I was a little bored after the first hour when - clearly missing 50% of the performance space, despite doing my best to take myself off and explore - I started to see the same scenes repeated. There was a 'final' dance as such, but there didn't seem to be a clear end point, and my other half (who did find 'Troy') reported that he didn't even know it was over. He had spent a pleasant 30 minutes in the bar watching a cabaret singer, all of which was a surprise to me.
This morning I have spent some time looking at the fan Facebook groups for the show, and it seems there is a small army of people who see these shows 10, 15, 20, 100 times (presumably they are lottery winners or have hefty trust funds). They have Google docs plotting out the narrative arcs and character journeys and maps of the secret routes and places where you might experience an elusive 'one to one' experience. Someone noted that they always take a map and a notebook and try and follow a different actor each time. Presumably these are the people I witnessed trailing the actors at an uncomfortable distance and marathon-sprinting after them each time they moved on to the point that made me think I was always missing out on something because I didn't have the energy to leg it around for 3 hours.
Should I really have to do all this background reading to understand what's going on, or to even know that there is more to the experience than I managed to find? Do I have to go more than once? At £80-ish a time, I'm not sure I can afford to go back and 'correct my mistakes'. I know the mantra is 'you get a personal experience' but I just don't think I knew enough to get more than a passing glance at the sort of stuff I've seen from them many times before - some albeit impressive interpretative dance and some scantily-clad people swooshing sand around as if trying to imbue meaning (but, I suspect, actually to fill time). I was lucky enough to get tickets for their last London outing, Kaberoi, which was a sort of treasure hunt around London, and a lot of the 'Greek Gods return' stuff was very reminiscent of that one.
I have been told (by the Facebook fans) that the show changes substantially throughout previews, which is understandable, but they also report that the show isn't even fully complete yet - there are empty areas where scenes will be added, there are minimal one-to-one experiences until the main story is fully realised. Last night there was even a camera man and a photographer (with staff members telling them what to film next) which broke the sense of escapism somewhat.
Anyway - these are my thoughts. I am a grumpy old man, maybe, but I feel like I shouldn't come away feeling disappointed because I didn't have the inside knowledge to make the most of it or that I should have waited to get the most bang from my buck, or too stupid to understand who anyone was/what was going on because I don't have hours to pore over wikipedia articles.
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Post by Steffi on Apr 6, 2022 11:51:44 GMT
Missing a whole area is indeed unfortunate. I tend to follow characters for a full loop because I enjoy experiencing their narrative. That means I usually end up being "taken" around the set by a character. (Just to point out: I do not follow uncomfortably close - the lack of spacial awareness of some people is one of my biggest pet peeves in Punchdrunk shows)
I went to the first 4 previews of Burnt City fully expecting it to be chaos. And I actually left the first preview being quite impressed by how polished the show was. It was clearly a work in progress and things went wrong (probably even more than was visible from an audience point of view). But for a first preview of an immersive show of that scale it was a slick performance. I'm watching another bunch of performances this weekend and am looking forward to seeing what changes have been made. There were significant changes made throughout the 4 very first shows I watched - a lot of them had to do with audience flow. And one on one performances had not been added at that point but are slowly being implemented now from what I have been told.
So far I have always gone into a Punchdrunk show with minimal to no research. I knew nothing about The Drowned Man before my first visit. When I went to see Sleep no more for the first time I knew it was loosely based on Macbeth. With Burnt City all I knew was it was some version of the fall of Troy. I generally don't think excessive research is required before attending a Punchdrunk show. But I also think going into any of their masked shows for the first time wanting to make sense of the narrative will end in frustration.
Hopefully you can give the show another chance after opening night. They will be doing £25 rush tickets through Time Out if that is an option for you.
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Apr 6, 2022 22:56:53 GMT
I completely agree partytentdown 100% with EVERYTHING that you've said - it's not obvious at all and I missed Troy just like you. I spent so long wandering about and because of the double mask thing, felt even more fatigued and equally frustrated that I couldn't follow characters. I just didn't get it. I consider myself fairly with it when I go to the theatre but I was genuinely so confused and felt of sorts. I tried going out of my way too, not following the crowds but to my own detriment it seems. It was overcrowded too and felt very hot. I deliberately planned my outfit as remember being so hot at The Drowned Man (that was in the summer!) and despite wearing less layers, was still overheating. Please don't feel stupid or like you're being grumpy. I don't think it's a lot to ask for the producers to think of their audiences especially the amount they are charging. The entrance should have been signposted way more clearly OR lit up. It's not as if you can ask either as you're encouraged not to talk and to make your own journey / split up if you're with someone. I'm all for being a fan but it's coming across so snobby on some of these Facebook fan groups when others have also pointed out this isn't clear. I saw someone scribbling away and was so confused why they were. It feels very in-the-know and doesn't feel accessible for people who are not familiar with Punchdrunk or repeat attendees. Not a patch on The Drowned Man - I know you shouldn't compare but at least that was not in the dark the whole time. I would get in touch with Punchdrunk and raise your concerns. I have just so they know. I'm very disappointed and the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. It's feeling rather elitist. Such a shame.
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Post by sh on Apr 7, 2022 14:52:46 GMT
I'm all for being a fan but it's coming across so snobby on some of these Facebook fan groups when others have also pointed out this isn't clear. I saw someone scribbling away and was so confused why they were. It feels very in-the-know and doesn't feel accessible for people who are not familiar with Punchdrunk or repeat attendees. The show is still in previews so the person you saw scribbling notes is almost certainly a member of the creative team. This happens in previews of any show but is perhaps more noticeable when the audience is moving around in a Punchdrunk show than it would be in a seated auditorium.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 7, 2022 16:52:50 GMT
Sounds like it’s dividing opinion… poll added!
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Post by caa on Apr 8, 2022 7:51:33 GMT
This reminds me why I find going to a Punkdrunk show rather annoying, any advice on how to find Troy?
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Post by mrnutz on Apr 8, 2022 8:55:58 GMT
I'm really torn on this and withholding my rating for now. Background: I am (/ was?) a huge Punchdrunk fan and have seen the majority of their productions, big and small, since The Masque of the Red Death in 2007.
I saw The Burnt City at the first Saturday show (probably 3rd / 4th preview), and fully appreciate the work develops and evolves over time.
HOWEVER. I think there should be difference between a preview and a 'work-in-progress', and if the work is still going through considerable change it should be priced accordingly. This was priced as a preview, yet I heard they were experimenting with major changes (an entirely new finale at the show I saw) from night to night.
I think this is some of Punchdrunk's least accessible and most disappointing work to date. In my opinion, a show should not require multiple visits to 'get it'. The fact that many people seem to be missing an entire half of the set should be a major concern to PD. Personally I didn't have problems going from Troy to Mycenae, but there is a clearly an issue here.
I'm going again in a few weeks, so will rate and update my opinion after that...
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Post by mrnutz on Apr 8, 2022 9:08:00 GMT
Also, I'd suggest this thread is moved to the 'Opera and Dance' section - it's definitely not a play and there is minimal dialogue.
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Post by partytentdown on Apr 8, 2022 9:52:51 GMT
This reminds me why I find going to a Punkdrunk show rather annoying, any advice on how to find Troy? Well, it seems some people start there anyway. But apparently the easiest way from Mycenae is {Spoiler - click to view} on the upper level/balcony where the long table is, go to the end with the 'bedroom' and somewhere round/behind there is a door leading a corridor (the corridor apparently isn't 'dressed' much so many people assume it's a staff area, but it isn't. Be warned that some people have said once they go through, it can be hard to get back, so explore both areas thoroughly before you change!
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Post by zahidf on Apr 8, 2022 9:54:28 GMT
I spent most my time in Troy and only got to Mycenae for the last hour
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Post by Steffi on Apr 8, 2022 11:40:26 GMT
This reminds me why I find going to a Punkdrunk show rather annoying, any advice on how to find Troy? When in Mycenae (the space with the long table on the mezzanine level) follow any of the soldier type men and they will lead you to Troy eventually.
Alternatively when in Mycenae look for the big stairs that lead up to the Mezzanine level (you can’t miss those). Walk away from those and through the doors on the other end of the space. There’s a long corridor that looks really bare that leads to Troy (there are some signs saying “To Troy” in there but they’re easily missed).
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Post by stagebyte on Apr 10, 2022 21:09:45 GMT
I’m going to this on Tuesday and just got the email to tell you what to expect. There are a lot of trigger warnings and my friend is now saying she doesn’t want to go. From the posts above I’m kind of regretting it myself. If there’s no linear way to view the action can you really just find yourself wandering around. Im Also disappointed to hear it’s not even finished yet?
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Post by stagebyte on Apr 10, 2022 21:11:25 GMT
What’s so special about Troy and what advice to give a newbie about following actors or just going my own path. For the price I would like to think I don’t have to repeat view to feel I’ve experienced a PD show
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Post by Steffi on Apr 11, 2022 3:14:11 GMT
What’s so special about Troy and what advice to give a newbie about following actors or just going my own path. For the price I would like to think I don’t have to repeat view to feel I’ve experienced a PD show Troy is a more detailed space with lots of different rooms. There’s a lot to explore there even when not following a performer. Mycenae is a mostly wide and open. Lots of scenes there are quite cinematic and look beautiful (I love watching things happening downstairs up from the mezzanine level).
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Apr 11, 2022 9:58:53 GMT
I’m going to this on Tuesday and just got the email to tell you what to expect. There are a lot of trigger warnings and my friend is now saying she doesn’t want to go. From the posts above I’m kind of regretting it myself. If there’s no linear way to view the action can you really just find yourself wandering around. Im Also disappointed to hear it’s not even finished yet? OH, tell me about it. I reached out to SEE Tickets as been going through pet bereavements last year and they refused to refund. Don't rate their customer service at all. I'm thankful the most I saw was some nudity - that's it. It is also super dark just bear that in mind. I was literally wondering around and around and around and around....
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 11, 2022 10:25:27 GMT
Having read about it here and seen some YouTube reviews of this I have to say it sounds rather smug and “up itself”.
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Post by stagebyte on Apr 11, 2022 16:17:55 GMT
Just got an email Tomorrow Eve performance cancelled No explanation.
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Post by mkb on Apr 11, 2022 16:34:32 GMT
Just got an email Tomorrow Eve performance cancelled No explanation. The lack of explanation is downright rude, but not surprising as Punchdrunk have always had appalling customer service. Their front-of-house organisation at Drowned Man and Sleep No More was terrible (based on multiple visits to each). I am booked for Wednesday night at Burnt City. As an LFC fan who goes to most games, with much regret, I gave away my tickets for the Liverpool v Benfica game at Anfield because of the clash with Burnt City, and I'll not be happy if that was for nought. It will be another wasted London hotel and train tickets too, so I hope it goes ahead.
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Post by mkb on Apr 11, 2022 16:41:24 GMT
Sales for Wednesday and the rest of this week have not been pulled, so I hope this cancellation is tomorrow only, but it's difficult to understand what it could be that affects one night only. Maybe, a plumbing leak or something similar? If it were Covid, the whole week would have gone.
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Post by stagebyte on Apr 11, 2022 17:16:31 GMT
Just got an email Tomorrow Eve performance cancelled No explanation. The lack of explanation is downright rude, but not surprising as Punchdrunk have always had appalling customer service. Their front-of-house organisation at Drowned Man and Sleep No More was terrible (based on multiple visits to each). I am booked for Wednesday night at Burnt City. As an LFC fan who goes to most games, with much regret, I gave away my tickets for the Liverpool v Benfica game at Anfield because of the clash with Burnt City, and I'll not be happy if that was for nought. It will be another wasted London hotel and train tickets too, so I hope it goes ahead. Yes we’d booked a matinee and paid for hotel on the strength of going to it tomorrow. 5pm is very late to be telling people. Is it on tonight?
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Post by mrnutz on Apr 11, 2022 18:47:23 GMT
The lack of explanation is downright rude, but not surprising as Punchdrunk have always had appalling customer service. Their front-of-house organisation at Drowned Man and Sleep No More was terrible (based on multiple visits to each). I am booked for Wednesday night at Burnt City. As an LFC fan who goes to most games, with much regret, I gave away my tickets for the Liverpool v Benfica game at Anfield because of the clash with Burnt City, and I'll not be happy if that was for nought. It will be another wasted London hotel and train tickets too, so I hope it goes ahead. Yes we’d booked a matinee and paid for hotel on the strength of going to it tomorrow. 5pm is very late to be telling people. Is it on tonight? No shows on Mondays, so tomorrow would have been the first of the week.
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Post by southstreet on Apr 12, 2022 9:32:48 GMT
Pretty certain it's a logistical issue, e.g. plumbing leak, big set change/implementation that is taking longer than hoped for and can't be done in time for tonight's show.
I have actually always found SNM front of house/reservations super helpful, especially when needing to change tickets to other dates, which I have done many a time, often at relatively short notice. A friend even had an issue where she didn't go to a show she booked as she was stuck on a delayed plane and only got into the city after the show had finished and as they could see her ticket hadn't been used, without any fuss straight away offered to move her ticket to the next performance she could attend when she called up.
Not best pleased they have teamed up with See Tickets for this production, because that will definitely be more hassle with everything. And it already seems to have started, with See tickets implying you need to pay extra for moving the ticket to later performances that aren't at preview prices anymore, which is fine if you ask to move a ticket because you can't make a show, but definitely not when the performance has been cancelled, so it's out of your control.
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Post by stagebyte on Apr 12, 2022 11:55:41 GMT
Pretty certain it's a logistical issue, e.g. plumbing leak, big set change/implementation that is taking longer than hoped for and can't be done in time for tonight's show. I have actually always found SNM front of house/reservations super helpful, especially when needing to change tickets to other dates, which I have done many a time, often at relatively short notice. A friend even had an issue where she didn't go to a show she booked as she was stuck on a delayed plane and only got into the city after the show had finished and as they could see her ticket hadn't been used, without any fuss straight away offered to move her ticket to the next performance she could attend when she called up. Not best pleased they have teamed up with See Tickets for this production, because that will definitely be more hassle with everything. And it already seems to have started, with See tickets implying you need to pay extra for moving the ticket to later performances that aren't at preview prices anymore, which is fine if you ask to move a ticket because you can't make a show, but definitely not when the performance has been cancelled, so it's out of your control. Can you point me to where this is implied please? I haven’t had a follow up email. Just one to say cancelled and they’ll be in touch
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Post by southstreet on Apr 12, 2022 13:02:45 GMT
I haven't got the email as I didn't have tickets for today. However PD themselves have confirmed that that isn't the case and that original prices will be honoured when changing those cancelled tickets.
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Post by stagebyte on Apr 12, 2022 21:11:27 GMT
Well this is turning into a complete nightmare to get replacement tickets and looking at the PD Facebook page I’m not alone. No explanation and SEE tickets have given 24 hours to sort, no refunds and there seemingly no tickets of an equivalent value. Very poor service and a bad impression before my first experience 😢
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Post by southstreet on Apr 13, 2022 8:43:11 GMT
Eurgh, that is annoying, though hardly surprising with See Tickets. Hopefully the below, taken from Punchdrunk's FB page, will help if you haven't seen it yet?
We are very sorry to hear that the ticket exchange process has been frustrating. If you are a ticket holder for 12th April, we recommend contacting See Ticket’s via their client portal (https://theburntcity.seetickets.com/customerservice). Once logged in, scroll down to the bottom and click ‘Contact Us’. Please select ‘General Enquiry’ and enter a message with your preferred exchange dates. A member of the See Tickets Customer Service Team will get back to you. There is no time limit on how long you have to complete your exchange and the show is now booking until 4 Dec 2022. For all exchanges we will honour the price you originally paid including for Early Bird and Local Tickets. If you are not able to access the link above or have additional questions, please email boxoffice@punchdrunk.com.
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