1,127 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Apr 30, 2021 17:17:35 GMT
I really wish people would stop acting like “not getting to be a celeb anymore” is overly punitive.
The hysteria about being “locked up” and “denied access to the world” is completely disproportionate to what’s actually happening: that TV and film companies no longer want to offer someone roles because it will damage their viewing figures.
99.99% of people who desperately want to be movie and TV stars, do not get to be movie stars. Being a celebrity is not some sort of right. Being denied celebrity status is not a punishment, but the natural consequence of behaviour in a job that’s entirely dependent on public likability. Celebrities exist only on the grace of the public. If the public lose interest in a person, they simply don’t get to be a celebrity anymore. Plenty of celebs have lost their careers and livelihoods simply because they gained weight, or aged, or had children, or became ill, or acted in a couple of boring projects. No outrage there, is there?
Why should a movie or TV studio decide to hand their millions of pounds to Noel Clarke, instead of the hundred other talented artists in their pitch slate? Why is choosing someone else over him an egregious punishment?
In many industries, being accused of being abusive or a bully is cause for firing; a cafe manager would certainly never say “well that waiter has screamed at half a dozen people but they’ve not been convicted of a crime so I can’t possibly fire them.” Why should actors be treated as untouchable and held to a different standard, with lasting fame some kind of birthright except in cases of criminal conviction?
Noel is perfectly free to pursue any job he wants, and to continue to self-produce his work. And other people are perfectly free to choose not to give him money for that work.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 17:27:05 GMT
I really wish people would stop acting like “not getting to be a celeb anymore” is overly punitive. The hysteria about being “locked up” and “denied access to the world” is completely disproportionate to what’s actually happening: that TV and film companies no longer want to offer someone roles because it will damage their viewing figures. 99.99% of people who desperately want to be movie and TV stars, do not get to be movie stars. Being a celebrity is not some sort of right. Being denied celebrity status is not a punishment, but the natural consequence of behaviour in a job that’s entirely dependent on public likability. Celebrities exist only on the grace of the public. If the public lose interest in a person, they simply don’t get to be a celebrity anymore. Plenty of celebs have lost their careers and livelihoods simply because they gained weight, or aged, or had children, or became ill, or acted in a couple of boring projects. No outrage there, is there? Why should a movie or TV studio decide to hand their millions of pounds to Noel Clarke, instead of the hundred other talented artists in their pitch slate? Why is choosing someone else over him an egregious punishment? In many industries, being accused of being abusive or a bully is cause for firing; a cafe manager would certainly never say “well that waiter has screamed at half a dozen people but they’ve not been convicted of a crime so I can’t possibly fire them.” Why should actors be treated as untouchable and held to a different standard, with lasting fame some kind of birthright except in cases of criminal conviction? Noel is perfectly free to pursue any job he wants, and to continue to self-produce his work. And other people are perfectly free to choose not to give him money for that work. The problem is when someone loses a career to allegations. An allegation is enough to take a career from someone. Even though there seems to be more outrage about people not being able to see the last episode of his drama. Perhaps audiences want to wait until someone is investigated and tried by the justice system and not Twitter |
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 30, 2021 17:39:14 GMT
I really wish people would stop acting like “not getting to be a celeb anymore” is overly punitive. The hysteria about being “locked up” and “denied access to the world” is completely disproportionate to what’s actually happening: that TV and film companies no longer want to offer someone roles because it will damage their viewing figures. 99.99% of people who desperately want to be movie and TV stars, do not get to be movie stars. Being a celebrity is not some sort of right. Being denied celebrity status is not a punishment, but the natural consequence of behaviour in a job that’s entirely dependent on public likability. Celebrities exist only on the grace of the public. If the public lose interest in a person, they simply don’t get to be a celebrity anymore. Plenty of celebs have lost their careers and livelihoods simply because they gained weight, or aged, or had children, or became ill, or acted in a couple of boring projects. No outrage there, is there? Why should a movie or TV studio decide to hand their millions of pounds to Noel Clarke, instead of the hundred other talented artists in their pitch slate? Why is choosing someone else over him an egregious punishment? In many industries, being accused of being abusive or a bully is cause for firing; a cafe manager would certainly never say “well that waiter has screamed at half a dozen people but they’ve not been convicted of a crime so I can’t possibly fire them.” Why should actors be treated as untouchable and held to a different standard, with lasting fame some kind of birthright except in cases of criminal conviction? Noel is perfectly free to pursue any job he wants, and to continue to self-produce his work. And other people are perfectly free to choose not to give him money for that work. The problem is when someone loses a career to allegations. An allegation is enough to take a career from someone. Even though there seems to be more outrage about people not being able to see the last episode of his drama. Perhaps audiences want to wait until someone is investigated and tried by the justice system and not Twitter Twenty allegations. Twenty. |
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Post by kathryn on Apr 30, 2021 17:40:39 GMT
It’s not ‘an allegation’, it’s 20 allegations. And plenty of other people indicating that those 20 allegations are the Spacey-esque tip of the iceberg.
You get the benefit of the doubt for one allegation, if you have a good reputation in the industry. Noel Clarke very obviously does not have a good reputation. The sheer volume of allegations here removes any doubt to give him the benefit of.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 17:49:25 GMT
20 Allegations
The Guardian has spoken to 20 women, all of whom knew Clarke in a professional capacity. They variously accuse him of sexual harassment, unwanted touching or groping, sexually inappropriate behaviour and comments on set, professional misconduct, taking and sharing sexually explicit pictures and videos without consent, and bullying between 2004 and 2019.
All corroborated by someone telling their friends, someone labelling a dick pic ‘Noels Dick’. One photo of someone doing some sort of yoga on a dancefloor at an event with VPL which men leered over and laughed at.
I hope police can investigate and find the alleged tapes of the naked audition, however the casting director who was present said she couldn’t believe that happened. And by releasing the info on Twitter first gives Noel time to dump any tapes and then prove even more he’s a predator to Twitter.
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1,127 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Apr 30, 2021 17:57:39 GMT
Nobody loses their career over an “allegation.” That’s simply not how the industry works.
Whenever you see someone’s career turn upside down and witness everyone abandon them overnight, it’s because they were widely disliked and everyone knew they were a nightmare.
Ever wonder why some celebs survive scandals unscathed and some lose their careers overnight?
This is not a large industry. Everyone knows who the abusers and who the bullies are. It’s a shame those with power aren’t more willing to lead (though I know for a fact plenty of people have refused to work with NC over the years because of his behaviour) but the idea that commissioners are just sitting there going, “Well gee he always seemed like a nice bloke, but the Guardian say he’s cancelled so we won’t hire him anymore” is not based in reality.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 30, 2021 18:08:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:13:14 GMT
Nobody loses their career over an “allegation.” That’s simply not how the industry works. Whenever you see someone’s career turn upside down and witness everyone abandon them overnight, it’s because they were widely disliked and everyone knew they were a nightmare. Ever wonder why some celebs survive scandals unscathed and some lose their careers overnight? This is not a large industry. Everyone knows who the abusers and who the bullies are. It’s a shame those with power aren’t more willing to lead (though I know for a fact plenty of people have refused to work with NC over the years because of his behaviour) but the idea that commissioners are just sitting there going, “Well gee he always seemed like a nice bloke, but the Guardian say he’s cancelled so we won’t hire him anymore” is not based in reality. Loved by the Irish media. Was the host of multiple media shows from tv to radio. Was the host of an Irish remake of Cilla Black Surprise Surprise. Sold out large gigs for Irish comics and was liked across the Herero/Homo binary. Career gone, articles if he so much appears in public. And the Twitterati think he shouldn’t be allowed work because he’s not innocent because they couldn’t prove his guilt. www.irishmirror.ie/showbiz/irish-showbiz/al-porter-focusing-family-health-20993191 An allegation is enough to ruin a career. Another: www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/i-m-not-the-same-sil-fox-comedian-seeks-damages-after-sex-assault-case-is-dismissed-1.4488854Let the police handle sexual crimes not the media social or print. |
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Post by zahidf on Apr 30, 2021 18:13:29 GMT
It's fairly telling that no one is coming out publicly to defend him.
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2,496 posts
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Post by zahidf on Apr 30, 2021 18:15:09 GMT
Nobody loses their career over an “allegation.” That’s simply not how the industry works. Whenever you see someone’s career turn upside down and witness everyone abandon them overnight, it’s because they were widely disliked and everyone knew they were a nightmare. Ever wonder why some celebs survive scandals unscathed and some lose their careers overnight? This is not a large industry. Everyone knows who the abusers and who the bullies are. It’s a shame those with power aren’t more willing to lead (though I know for a fact plenty of people have refused to work with NC over the years because of his behaviour) but the idea that commissioners are just sitting there going, “Well gee he always seemed like a nice bloke, but the Guardian say he’s cancelled so we won’t hire him anymore” is not based in reality. Loved by the Irish media. Was the host of multiple media shows from tv to radio. Was the host of an Irish remake of Cilla Black Surprise Surprise. Sold out large gigs for Irish comics and was liked across the Herero/Homo binary. Career gone, articles if he so much appears in public. And the Twitterati think he shouldn’t be allowed work because he’s not innocent because they couldn’t prove his guilt. An allegation is enough to ruin a career. Another: www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/i-m-not-the-same-sil-fox-comedian-seeks-damages-after-sex-assault-case-is-dismissed-1.4488854Let the police handle sexual crimes not the media social or print. Well it's a well researched guardian article here. You obviously have a bug bear over metoo but saying 'just go to the police' is an issue for several reasons |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:19:33 GMT
How many people will donate to a rape crisis centre today?
There’ll be more tweets about this than donations.
Then it’ll move onto the next outrage leaving the victims with no support and the alleged accused with no career because this won’t even make it to court.
Convince me that is right in anyway.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 30, 2021 18:23:07 GMT
How many people will donate to a rape crisis centre today? There’ll be more tweets about this than donations. Then it’ll move onto the next outrage leaving the victims with no support and the alleged accused with no career because this won’t even make it to court. Convince me that is right in anyway. No career means he can't hurt other women in the industry, seems like a good outcome to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:24:00 GMT
Well it's a well researched guardian article here. You obviously have a bug bear over metoo but saying 'just go to the police' is an issue for several reasons You know nothing about me but cast aspersions and line me up with predators in the me too movement. I was left walking a street with no money with no shirt after being sexually assaulted with an object. I went to the police, I had the rape kit, the hours of statements. Frankly, I don’t want someone who got whispered crude remarks or had their arse smacked lumped in with me. Everyone is a victim today and it does real harm to actual victims. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:24:49 GMT
Let the police handle sexual crimes not the media social or print. It's possible for someone to make work a toxic nightmare without committing a crime.
"Innocent until proven guilty" is an important principle, but at the same time people shouldn't have to tolerate abuse for fear of losing their jobs or being considered "difficult to work with" for making a fuss until it gets to the point someone in a position of power goes so far they actually end up being convicted in court. Sometimes everyone coming together to say "We're not going to put up with you any more" is just what's needed.
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Post by talkingheads on Apr 30, 2021 18:27:04 GMT
Well it's a well researched guardian article here. You obviously have a bug bear over metoo but saying 'just go to the police' is an issue for several reasons You know nothing about me but cast aspersions and line me up with predators in the me too movement. I was left walking a street with no money with no shirt after being sexually assaulted with an object. I went to the police, I had the rape kit, the hours of statements. Frankly, I don’t want someone who got whispered crude remarks or had their arse smacked lumped in with me. Everyone is a victim today and it does real harm to actual victims. Trauma is not a competition. You don't get to undermine other women's experience of abuse because it doesn't conform to your idea of what abuse is. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:30:59 GMT
You know nothing about me but cast aspersions and line me up with predators in the me too movement. I was left walking a street with no money with no shirt after being sexually assaulted with an object. I went to the police, I had the rape kit, the hours of statements. Frankly, I don’t want someone who got whispered crude remarks or had their arse smacked lumped in with me. Everyone is a victim today and it does real harm to actual victims. Trauma is not a competition. You don't get to undermine other women's experience of abuse because it doesn't conform to your idea of what abuse is. I get to say what I like it’s called an opinion. And it does harm to victims because being a victim is now reduced to being called a name or told I want to sleep with you. It’s the same as all the people crying about their mental health cause they can’t get a haircut in the lockdown. Where are those people when schizophrenics or bi-polar people are locked up and have to sleep on floors. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:34:54 GMT
I don’t think there is anything to applaud in staying quiet and allowing others to become victims of someone so you can keep your career.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:40:13 GMT
So far on this thread I’ve been called:
A sexual assault apologist
Aligned with the predators of the MeToo movement
And exploiting my own sexual assault
Plus oppressing women who allege assault Also called mentally ill.
Nice going.
Have a nice weekend all.
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Apr 30, 2021 18:53:09 GMT
‘It’s not as bad as what happened to me so I don’t think they should be able to complain or have the perpetrator face consequences’ is just not a winning argument here.
I think you probably do need a bit more mental health support to deal with what happened to you. Because it’s frankly making you behave in a really odd and unpleasant way that’s not making you any friends here. Not all coping mechanisms are healthy.
Hope you get all the help you need. Sincerely.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 18:57:37 GMT
‘It’s not as bad as what happened to me so I don’t think they should be able to complain or have the perpetrator face consequences’ is just not a winning argument here. I think you probably do need a bit more mental health support to deal with what happened to you. Because it’s frankly making you behave in a really odd and unpleasant way that’s not making you any friends here. Not all coping mechanisms are healthy. Hope you get all the help you need. Sincerely. That’s a horrible response. I reported to the police saved future victims and moved on with my life. Just like issues with race and sexuality I wish people privileged enough not to have experienced sexual assault would stay out of it and let people define what racism is, homophobia is and what sexual assault is. Instead using their privilege to oppress the voices of us that are gay or have been sexually assaulted or are POC. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 19:07:03 GMT
I think it's time for people to take a break and calm down. This is a serious subject and warrants more consideration than posting every few minutes permits.
Or to put it another way: Don't post angry.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 19:09:06 GMT
Thanks for shutting down the thread when I reported the posts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 19:13:40 GMT
Thanks for shutting down the thread when I reported the posts. I haven't shut down the thread. I'm saying that anything anyone has to say can be said better with careful thought than with a frantic "must attack" post. That goes for everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 19:16:19 GMT
Thanks for shutting down the thread when I reported the posts. I haven't shut down the thread. I'm saying that anything anyone has to say can be said better with careful thought than with a frantic "must attack" post. That goes for everyone.
I posted in Feedback to have my account deleted, too much abuse and calling people mentally ill or a rape apologist isn’t something I accept. I don’t want to be associated with that or site that tolerates It. |
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Post by zahidf on Apr 30, 2021 20:23:07 GMT
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