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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 30, 2020 13:03:26 GMT
I agree some do and they’re all buying tickets? If a 100 - 200 come from outside Manchester, this is helpful production wise. I imagine something like Wicked at the Palace would attract a small percentage of an audience from nearby cities, because Manchester is very accessible transport wise, where for me who lives in London, on the Kent borders would take 70 minutes to get to London Euston. Manchester is not very accessible transport wise from Sheffield. The drive across the Woodhead Pass or the Snake Pass is single carriage all the way and hair raising even in good weather. It’s often closed at the slightest whiff of snow or ice in winter. To avoid it you have to go north on the M1 and across the M62 which is a huge detour. Train services aren't that great either. There’s been a huge public debate about this for years because as usual the North has suffered from underinvestment meaning that travel times between the major conurbations are much higher than comparable journeys in the South.The fastest train is 50 minutes and the worse case scenario is 90 minutes as TallPaul is well aware! Add your bus to either end of that and it’s all getting to look like a very long night out. The rail line is single track and plans to upgrade it and shave 10 minutes off the journey time were put back to 2023 but who knows what will happen with that now. For improvements to the services between Manchester and leeds we have to wait for HS3 which is probably decades away. |
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Post by TallPaul on Dec 30, 2020 15:15:41 GMT
I'm a little surprised it took a full 16 hours, BurlyBeaR, but I just knew *that* 90 minutes would 'arrive' sooner or later. 🚃 I've been stood waiting in the cold on Platform 2. 🙂 |
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 30, 2020 17:54:01 GMT
90 minute is an horrific journey, trains can also be overcrowded, I travelled last Christmas from Sheffield to Manchester on a late Saturday morning, Manchester United were playing at home and also the Xmas markets were on, the train was like sardines. I was standing and cramped, some people couldn’t get on. If I have time I enjoy taking the slow train between Manchester and Sheffield, and appreciate the beauty of the Peak District, but this isn’t ideal for theatre goers that want to get home in a hurry!
I cannot legislate for the quality of the train service, it takes me 40 minutes on a slow train to Charing Cross from where I live. Then if going to Paddington/Euston/Kings Cross have to allow half hour. But the fact is you can get fast trains between Manchester and Sheffield. Also I am no sure if Phantom, Wicked, The Lion King or Les Miserables played Sheffield as the theatre is too small. So you can either go to London and cannot get a train back after an evening performance and Pay for an hotel, or catch the show in Manchester, Leeds or Bradford.
I fully support improving train services, which includes improving the Sheffield to Manchester Line, HS2 and HS3.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2020 18:05:43 GMT
Don't discount the regions as well as the cities.
I grew up in North Wales and would regularly travel with my family, an hour up the motorway, to Manchester to see a show. As did many others I grew up with. Manchester has a huge pull from west.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Dec 30, 2020 18:39:31 GMT
Don't discount the regions as well as the cities. I grew up in North Wales and would regularly travel with my family, an hour up the motorway, to Manchester to see a show. As did many others I grew up with. Manchester has a huge pull from west. Same here we would travel from Hull to Manchester (barnum, Les Miz, Phantom and Me and my girl) . one day it was even to Birmingham for Joseph with with the wonderful Philip S. I also a wonderful trip to Sheffield City Hall for Victoria Wood. |
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Post by danb on Dec 30, 2020 19:03:09 GMT
I grew up in Warrington & could get to and from Manchester or Liverpool for an evening show on the train. (and still could do last year).
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 30, 2020 19:39:51 GMT
I grew up in Warrington & could get to and from Manchester or Liverpool for an evening show on the train. (and still could do last year). I was responding to PoL’s comments about my home town Sheffield. Warrington benefits by not having a mountain range between it and Manc. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2020 20:15:14 GMT
I go to Manchester a lot (old uni City) for tours. Have previously looked into seeing a show in Liverpool on one night of a long weekend and getting train back to Manchester after - sadly not possible as no trains back after evening show. So connections certainly not as good as one might think/hope. That said, guess it's easier with a car. And certainly Manchester did have a big geographical pull for the surrounding counties of Cheshire and Lancashire.
And depending on how you define urban areas it has a good case for claiming to be England's 2nd city. So if there ever was to be an open ended run of something again, I think Manchester would be the best bet.
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Post by sph on Dec 30, 2020 21:54:14 GMT
Yes, Manchester has the benefit of being a large city which is also far enough away from London to attract Northern or even Scottish tourists who don't want to trek all the way down south for a show.
That being said, at the moment I still think the only show out there with a broad enough fanbase/appeal is Harry Potter. Others either have toured or will tour quite easily.
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Post by Figaro on Dec 30, 2020 21:56:17 GMT
Where did this Harry Potter rumour come from?!
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Post by sph on Dec 30, 2020 22:26:30 GMT
Oh I wasn't referring to that rumour. I know nothing about that. I just meant that of all the shows currently out there it's the only one I could imagine doing a sit-down outside London. I haven't heard of it actually potentially happening though.
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 31, 2020 1:07:22 GMT
I grew up in Warrington & could get to and from Manchester or Liverpool for an evening show on the train. (and still could do last year). I was responding to PoL’s comments about my home town Sheffield. Warrington benefits by not having a mountain range between it and Manc. So does Sheffield benefit from not having a mountain range between it and Manc. Ain’t it? |
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 31, 2020 1:09:32 GMT
I go to Manchester a lot (old uni City) for tours. Have previously looked into seeing a show in Liverpool on one night of a long weekend and getting train back to Manchester after - sadly not possible as no trains back after evening show. So connections certainly not as good as one might think/hope. That said, guess it's easier with a car. And certainly Manchester did have a big geographical pull for the surrounding counties of Cheshire and Lancashire. And depending on how you define urban areas it has a good case for claiming to be England's 2nd city. So if there ever was to be an open ended run of something again, I think Manchester would be the best bet. Think there are now later trains, but service is not ideal and after 21:00 Liverpool Lime Street is like a ghost town, nice to grab a latte on the way home. |
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Post by danb on Dec 31, 2020 6:08:16 GMT
I grew up in Warrington & could get to and from Manchester or Liverpool for an evening show on the train. (and still could do last year). I was responding to PoL’s comments about my home town Sheffield. Warrington benefits by not having a mountain range between it and Manc. I was merely stating the ease of my personal experience vs yours BB and highlighting how travel inequality is all around us...I did however, often get held at Old Trafford on match days. Most inconvenient. (My daughter was at uni in Sheffield & had a mare getting home from a Pretty Reckless gig at the Ritz one night). |
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Post by TallPaul on Dec 31, 2020 9:40:25 GMT
I'm going to backtrack about three pages, but there is a nice symmetry between Cats in London and Blackpool.
Back in 1989, Blackpool's three piers, the Tower and Winter Gardens were all owned by First Leisure, which was run by Bernard Delfont...the same Bernard Delfont who did the initial deal with ALW and Cam Mack that gave Cats its London home for so many years.
And, of course, he's the Delfont in Delfont Mackintosh Theatres.
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Post by musicalmarge on Jan 3, 2021 23:27:08 GMT
The very first Les Mis & Phantom tours both did at least three months in Manchester as their first stop. I bet you are young and under 30/35! Phantom was in Manchester in the early 90’s for over two years! |
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Post by danb on Jan 4, 2021 6:00:13 GMT
The very first Les Mis & Phantom tours both did at least three months in Manchester as their first stop. I bet you are young and under 30/35! Phantom was in Manchester in the early 90’s for over two years! If only... |
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Post by TallPaul on Jan 6, 2021 14:36:10 GMT
Should building work ever actually finish, it will be interesting to see what impact the opening of The Factory has on the Manchester theatre scene.
Alhough there seems to be some confusion as to how many seats it will have - somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 - there will be a significant number of tickets for a new entrant to sell, especially as the focus, at least initially, is going to be avant-garde work.
Suppose that the half a dozen weeks currently taken by visiting opera and ballet companies no longer have to be accommodated, will that make either the Palace or Opera House more amenable to open-ended runs?
As always, I'm happy to be corrected, but I think when Manchester did previously have truly open-ended runs, it was in the pre-ATG days. I'm only half-joking in suggesting that maybe ATG is able to charge higher contras on one and two week runs. 😉
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 6, 2021 21:05:46 GMT
Should building work ever actually finish, it will be interesting to see what impact the opening of The Factory has on the Manchester theatre scene. Alhough there seems to be some confusion as to how many seats it will have - somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 - there will be a significant number of tickets for a new entrant to sell, especially as the focus, at least initially, is going to be avant-garde work.Suppose that the half a dozen weeks currently taken by visiting opera and ballet companies no longer have to be accommodated, will that make either the Palace or Opera House more amenable to open-ended runs? As always, I'm happy to be corrected, but I think when Manchester did previously have truly open-ended runs, it was in the pre-ATG days. I'm only half-joking in suggesting that maybe ATG is able to charge higher contras on one and two week runs. 😉 I should not expect to be seeing Evita there then? 😤 |
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Post by TallPaul on Jan 7, 2021 10:26:46 GMT
The Jamie Lloyd production of Evita was quite avant-garde, wasn't it? Maybe that will head north, BurlyBeaR. Probably best to take a pac-a-mac with you, mind, just to be on the safe side. 'Ambitious' buildings are notoriously leaky, so there's no guarantee you'll be able to watch it in the dry! |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jan 7, 2021 10:41:02 GMT
Given that the current estimate of an opening date is December 2022 I might be past it by then!
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Post by stuart on Jan 8, 2021 9:14:13 GMT
Surely Edinburgh would be a no brainier for a sit-down production of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child? It’s far enough from London to not massively damage prospects there but Edinburgh also gets a lot of Harry Potter tourism. Stick it in the Festival Theatre and leave the Playhouse for the big tours.
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