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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 19:22:19 GMT
And actually that article shows an unarmed black person is more likely to be shot and killed by the police than an unarmed white person. Then why were 19 unarmed white persons killed by police last year versus 9 unarmed black persons? While 53% of the criminals and 12% of the population is black. So both the number AND the percentages are higher. Clearly the truth went against all "likelyness". |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 19:29:06 GMT
Let's applaud the low number of black unarmed criminals killed by police together. And protest against the alarmingly high number of white unarmed killed criminals, because what is actually happening there? Let's not applaud ANY unarmed criminals being killed by the police, because to do so is abhorrent. Applauding a disproportionate low number I say. And be thankful. Not applauding criminals. That is what you and protesters are doing right now and that is actually abhorrent. |
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Post by sf on Jun 8, 2020 19:29:24 GMT
And actually that article shows an unarmed black person is more likely to be shot and killed by the police than an unarmed white person. Then why were 19 unarmed white persons killed by police last year versus 9 unarmed black persons? While 53% of the criminals and 12% of the population is black. So both the number AND the percentages are higher. Clearly the truth went against all "likelyness". Because white Americans constitute somewhere around 60% of the population.
This isn't difficult, unless you choose not to see it.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 19:34:35 GMT
Because white Americans constitute somewhere around 60% of the population.
This isn't difficult, unless you choose not to see it.
This makes it even worse. What do you not understand? Black people constitute 12% of the population and yet, constitute 53 % of all criminality and police encounters. The criminality rate of black Americans towers over the criminality rate of white Americans, and yet, the number of unarmed white criminals killed by police towers over the numbers of black unarmed criminals killed by police. That is what this whole discussion is about and what is explained in the video. |
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Post by sf on Jun 8, 2020 20:01:46 GMT
Black people constitute 12% of the population and yet, constitute 53 % of all criminality and police encounters. Has it occured to you to ask why? |
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Post by vdcni on Jun 8, 2020 20:03:21 GMT
Yeah why read a carefully researched article putting the figures in context when you could just go along with whatever a woman who thinks the Coronavirus is a Democrat conspiracy against Trump and that George Soros is funding the protestors is saying.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 20:11:57 GMT
That is what this whole discussion is about and what is explained in the video. Your sources are not exactly unbiased and reasonable. Candace Owens is a far-right extremist who makes Donald Trump look like a moderate. |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:17:56 GMT
Black people constitute 12% of the population and yet, constitute 53 % of all criminality Has it occured to you to ask why? You tell me. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 8, 2020 20:20:45 GMT
Has it occured to you to ask why? You tell me. Still going on this one? Must be a wind up. You being serious today? |
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Post by sf on Jun 8, 2020 20:22:00 GMT
Has it occured to you to ask why? You tell me. Well, I'll give you a hint: it's the reason we're seeing such widespread protests. This is not just about George Floyd. |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:26:56 GMT
Well, I'll give you a hint: it's the reason we're seeing such widespread protests. This is not just about George Floyd. Using racism to defend such a high criminality rate? Wow. But you are definitely right about that last line, these protests are not about George Floyd. Many protesters are just too confused to understand this. |
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:27:55 GMT
Still going on this one? Must be a wind up. You being serious today? Yeah, I think I'm done for the day. Made my point. An important point. Sleep well! |
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Post by sf on Jun 8, 2020 20:29:26 GMT
Well, I'll give you a hint: it's the reason we're seeing such widespread protests. This is not just about George Floyd. Using racism to defend such a high criminality rate and defend it? Wow.
That's incredibly offensive, and it isn't justified by anything I've written in this thread.
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Post by Dave25 on Jun 8, 2020 20:31:59 GMT
Sleep well my friend, these kind of reactions between you and me are going nowhere. Our points are clear.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 20:45:20 GMT
Well, I'll give you a hint: it's the reason we're seeing such widespread protests. This is not just about George Floyd. Using racism to defend such a high criminality rate? Wow. But you are definitely right about that last line, these protests are not about George Floyd. Many protesters are just too confused to understand this. What is actually happening is that you are using criminality to defend racism, which is not just "wow", it's abhorrent. And I think you'll find protestors do know this isn't just about George Floyd, though given that you seem incapable of understanding the concept of systemic racism it doesn't appear that you understand what the protests are actually about. Pretty much every post you are putting in this thread is more prejudiced and bigoted than the last, and I am running out of words adequately to express just how much you are completely and utterly wrong. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 8, 2020 20:45:38 GMT
Sleep well my friend, these kind of reactions between you and me are going nowhere. Our points are clear. Red Wall, voted Tory? |
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Post by Latecomer on Jun 8, 2020 21:39:19 GMT
Interestingly George the Poet was on the radio a while back. He said he thought much the same as Dave25 ...he ended up doing a degree at Cambridge having managed to break away from rough estate in London....until he actually studied how people behave (anthropology) at university. Then he thought back and realised that nearly all his friends had, for example, no father present in their life, and that he was the exception, or outlier, being able to break free from probably ending up as a criminal. He was really interesting to listen to. He explained in some detail why people ended up how they did and said he was basically naive and simplistic before he had properly thought it though.
The point I make is that it is easy and lazy to think how Dave25 does. To really question takes courage and hard work and is not easy. That’s why so many people don’t bother.
And I will just say... in any walk of life you get people who will cheat a system....it’s just that somehow not paying your fair share in society and shielding your money from the tax man is admired rather than despised. Not very supportive of all those NHS nurses is it?
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Post by xanady on Jun 8, 2020 21:56:39 GMT
Been working away today and just opened up this thread and...omg!!
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 9, 2020 0:02:54 GMT
I knew it was a bad idea to look through this thread late at night....my blood pressure is through the roof!
Thanks to all the posters and mods who have been having to try and debate why racism is bad today. As if that's a sentence I actually have to write.
Can we just take a second to remember one very important thing: Dave25 is a racist. That might seem extreme but I’m sick of not calling it out enough. We have a racist on our forum, I think it's pretty clear to see. Just take a look at what he has written on this thread. The detail he has gone into to make sure he is absolutely certain that a black life will not be treated as equal as his is? It's the absolute lowest of the low.
Why do we still have this racist on our forum? They do not want to to listen. They do not want to learn or grow.
When do we finally say: enough is enough?
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 9, 2020 0:19:59 GMT
Candace Owen is the American equivalent of Katie Hopkins.
They both make arguments with vile hyperbole than facts.
Well Dave25 you certainly have nailed your colours to the flag and quoting Candace Owen and other posts in other threads, just validates who you rally are.
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Post by sallybowles on Jun 9, 2020 0:26:54 GMT
I knew it was a bad idea to look through this thread late at night....my blood pressure is through the roof! Thanks to all the posters and mods who have been having to try and debate why racism is bad today. As if that's a sentence I actually have to write. Can we just take a second to remember one very important thing: Dave25 is a racist. That might seem extreme but I’m sick of not calling it out enough. We have a racist on our forum, I think it's pretty clear to see. Just take a look at what he has written on this thread. The detail he has gone into to make sure he is absolutely certain that a black life will not be treated as equal as his is? It's the absolute lowest of the low. Why do we still have this racist on our forum? They do not want to to listen. They do not want to learn or grow. When do we finally say: enough is enough? I have been saying that for years. But for some reason my replies always get deleted by the mods here. Calling someone a race troll is apparently too offensive. I have been dealing with Dave on the BWW boards (I’m a mod there since 2008) in numerous threads and all of his 999 different accounts. Dave19 Davs28282 Are two of his accounts on the BWW forum. |
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Post by djp on Jun 9, 2020 1:24:11 GMT
I am torn on these protests, we are definitely at a dangerous phase which will determine whether we get the virus under control and similarly we need to find the opportunity to shine a light on the racism that still exists in society which continues to manifest itself during this crisis. BAME people are 15% of the UK population but received 22% of the coronavirus lockdown fines and in London this rose to 41% and have twice the death rate from coronavirus. I'm torn on it too. As with so many things in life, if there was an easy answer we'd have taken it. I think the initial protests were absolutely necessary. I've heard many stories of the brutality and racism endemic in the US police, and also the corruption and the look-the-other-way culture that makes it so rare for perpetrators to be brought to justice. That does seem to have been changing for a while but the expectation is still that the police will "get away with it" and people need to be able to trust that there will be proper investigations. These protests have certainly brought much greater attention to how easily the police can just say "self defence" and bury the issue. But there comes a point where further protests achieve nothing and are just stirring up problems that can actually obstruct necessary change. Throwing bottles at the UK police isn't going to do anything to fix racism anywhere. Far too many people think that if they make a lot of noise then somehow magic will happen and the noise will be transmuted into the change they want to see but it obviously doesn't work like that. Right now I don't think the protests are achieving anything new. Twice as much protest doesn't result in twice as much change, and at this time when distancing is imperative the overall effect of continuing the protests may end up doing more harm than good. Essentially true. Some people seem to have just discovered whats been obvious for decades - some US police tend to be trigger happy, and many are inclined to use unnecessary force. But this would be the same with or without racist overtones, or causes. The essential problem is the Second Amendment. If you are trying to police a country where there's many more guns than people, endemic gang warfare, and any lunatic can go around with their own arsenal of military grade weapons , you get a nervous, frightened police force that prefers not to risk getting shot, sees the world in terms of us and them, and acts aggressively . And that spills over into recruitment and attitude - who would want to take the risks of being shot anyday dictates who gets the job- so you get some people who ignore all rules of restraint, and kill people for no conceivable reason, and people who bulldoze pensioners in their way , group think, and commanders who order their men not to pick up said, white, pensioner because that not in the orders of the day.
Beyond better selection vetting, wider recruitment, retraining and better disciplinary procedures ,which might help on the margins, the US is stuck with that problem . It doesn't matter whoever marches, and whoever they elect- because the Second Amendment can't be changed - as most of the small states won't vote for it so you can't get the necessary Constitutional majority. And given no one knows who has how many guns ,even if you could pass gun control legislation , there's no way to enforce it.
There's also a lack of, and selective , knowledge of the real world at work here. People are justifiably angry watching George effectively being tortured to death for no reason . But they might also have been angry about a hell of a lot of other current issues they ignore - like the Sunni being carpet bombed by Russia in Syria, the iranian 14 year old girl who was just lawfully beheaded by her father in a honour killing for misbehaviour , or the Chinese throwing much of their Moslem population in concentration camps, and bulldozing their graveyards and turning them into car parks. Minneapolis police and Trump are awful, but they are far from the only awful leader and police force out there, people should have been marching against before, if they had a consistent, view.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 5:54:56 GMT
Dave Yeah, I think I'm done for the day. Made my point. An important point. The racism, faith in untrustworthy sources, and misunderstanding datasets was made in one of your first posts on this topic. Everything since then has simply been more of the same. I've worked in this field for more than a decade, and you have no idea what you are talking about. And at this point, making any further effort to engage with you on the topic is energy better spent on protesting and persuading policymakers of the necessary change to make. Adieu. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 6:02:51 GMT
So...
Would people like us to clean up this thread, or leave it as an example of the denialism that extremist misrepresentation of the facts can cause?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 6:27:38 GMT
Minneapolis police and Trump are awful, but they are far from the only awful leader and police force out there, people should have been marching against before, if they had a consistent, view. Well, if full-time protesting was my vocation, I'd march daily on a variety of atrocities around the world. But because I'm not and I don't, it does not mean I don't hold a consistent view. It means I have to choose how, when, and where to act on that view given the resources I have available and the likelihood that I can affect change. The world has more than 7.5 billion people, so more than enough for individuals to select those issues for which they are most passionate and to respond accordingly. We don't all have to care about the same things in order for meaningful change to be enacted. So it has always been, and so it shall likely always be. |
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