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Post by lynette on Dec 9, 2020 19:16:10 GMT
I despair. I can't see how Tier 3 will make any more difference than Tier 2 to the spread, as it doesn't address the main problem, which is the people who don't care and are just meeting up in private gatherings and in public anyway. They are all still going to go Christmas shopping whether London is Tier 2 or Tier 3! Why should I and many others who are complying with social distancing and mask wearing be left even more miserable when the real culprits aren't being dealt with at all? A change of tactic is needed - I don't know what the solution is, but the tier system does not seem to be working at all. I will be fuming if I can't get to West End Musical Christmas, I've had enough cancelled by ineffective tier rules already! Couldn’t agree more. I’m not going to the theatre, too soon for me, but I am hoping to see the kids, albeit in the garden, heavy coats and boots etc, before Xmas. When we were in the so called second lockdown, so not even garden meets allowed, we saw people flocking to the parks and it was silly, crowded more than a Bank Holiday weekend. So it will make no difference to those people but a hell of a difference to those of us who are just keeping to the rules, have been from the start. Do the restaurateurs ask for DNA proof that you are from the same household when you trundle in to save their business. Don’t think so. Then hey ok to allow three households actually INSIDE over Xmas. So no, cant even meet your kids in the garden if we go to 3 but yes, you can meet cousin Bill from a completely different city over five days Xmas. Bonkers doesn’t even get close. |
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Post by southstreet on Dec 10, 2020 11:00:45 GMT
I just don't understand how cases have been rising DURING lockdown??? Been trying to see if there is some kind of breakdown of the infection ages and where the most likely transmissions were? It just baffles me. If numbers started going up towards the end of this week, etc. I can understand that and expected that, stuff has been open again. But the numbers out now will have been people that go infected during lockdown, the charts I saw on the BBC only went up to the 4th December. That is the bit that baffles me, numbers rising towards the end of lockdown?
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 10, 2020 11:03:43 GMT
I just don't understand how cases have been rising DURING lockdown??? Been trying to see if there is some kind of breakdown of the infection ages and where the most likely transmissions were? It just baffles me. If numbers started going up towards the end of this week, etc. I can understand that and expected that, stuff has been open again. But the numbers out now will have been people that go infected during lockdown, the charts I saw on the BBC only went up to the 4th December. That is the bit that baffles me, numbers rising towards the end of lockdown? I think it's probably because in a very real sense there hasn't been a lockdown. Loads of traffic, lots of people still at work, high streets still busy with people queuing for coffees. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 23:11:02 GMT
I just don't understand how cases have been rising DURING lockdown??? Been trying to see if there is some kind of breakdown of the infection ages and where the most likely transmissions were? It just baffles me. If numbers started going up towards the end of this week, etc. I can understand that and expected that, stuff has been open again. But the numbers out now will have been people that go infected during lockdown, the charts I saw on the BBC only went up to the 4th December. That is the bit that baffles me, numbers rising towards the end of lockdown? Why are you baffled? People don't stick to the rules. |
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Post by theatreian on Dec 10, 2020 23:15:46 GMT
The reason cases have dropped so much in places like Liverpool, is by and large people did stick to the rules, plus they were in Tier 3 for a while.
It seems obvious that where cases are now rising in some areas including London, either the current measures are not strong enough and or people are not sticking to the rules.
It's tough I know as I have been living in Tier 3 for some time now, but we just have to stick it for a few more months and hopefully things will get back to a more normal way of life.
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Post by nick on Dec 11, 2020 7:05:08 GMT
I just don't understand how cases have been rising DURING lockdown??? Been trying to see if there is some kind of breakdown of the infection ages and where the most likely transmissions were? It just baffles me. If numbers started going up towards the end of this week, etc. I can understand that and expected that, stuff has been open again. But the numbers out now will have been people that go infected during lockdown, the charts I saw on the BBC only went up to the 4th December. That is the bit that baffles me, numbers rising towards the end of lockdown? Why are you baffled? People don't stick to the rules. It’s still baffling. Before the second lockdown London was doing very well - and much better than Manchester and Liverpool. Why would the second lockdown cause Londoners to behave differently? I’m so looking forward to the statistical analysis of the spread of Covid. For example I’m wondering how schools have made a difference. The second lockdown saw schools fully open. In London children are more mixed up in different schools ie they don’t just go to the local school. For example my son went to a sixth form in central London although we live deep in south London. Also we have a spread of university students with very little living on a campus. I think these will make a full lockdown less effective. |
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Post by southstreet on Dec 11, 2020 9:41:17 GMT
I just don't understand how cases have been rising DURING lockdown??? Been trying to see if there is some kind of breakdown of the infection ages and where the most likely transmissions were? It just baffles me. If numbers started going up towards the end of this week, etc. I can understand that and expected that, stuff has been open again. But the numbers out now will have been people that go infected during lockdown, the charts I saw on the BBC only went up to the 4th December. That is the bit that baffles me, numbers rising towards the end of lockdown? Why are you baffled? People don't stick to the rules. I know that people don't stick to the rules, what baffles me is that numbers were fairly stable in London and decreasing half way through lockdown and then started rising towards the end of it? People didn't stick to the rules pre-lockdown either, but you'd think with a lot less places open for people to congregate, etc. that numbers would at the very least stay the same, if not drop from the lockdown, but I didn't expect there to be a rise at the end of it, which will all be infections that were transmitted during the lockdown rather than before. |
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Post by firefingers on Dec 11, 2020 10:36:03 GMT
It is because we haven't been locked down. We've been punishing retail and hospitality in the name of it. With schools, universities and workplaces (and the commutes to and from those places) open there is plenty of opportunity for the virus to spread.
Either they needed to repeat the original lockdown, the only time where we have actually manage to get a handle on the virus, or they need to give up on the idea and lets thousands die and millions suffer lifelong health conditions...
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Post by lichtie on Dec 11, 2020 11:26:51 GMT
Listening to someone on the Today programme yesterday the suggestion was that the large rises in at least some of the London hotspots are due to the 14-18 year age range, as the older age ranges were still trending downwards. Almost inevitably that will increase in teh school kids will spread upwards again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 12:45:21 GMT
but you'd think with a lot less places open for people to congregate, etc. that numbers would at the very least stay the same On the contrary, when you close all the places to congregate that were complying with social distancing rules (restaurants, cafes, bars, cinemas, theatres etc), the inevitable is that people will continue to congregate but now there is nowhere else to do so except private homes and the only places that are open - schools and universities. This was always going to be the result of an ineffective lockdown that punished areas that were taking effective precautions and instead took away the option of meeting in safe environments and left open the super-spreaders. The government response is and has been a completely nonsensical joke. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 12:49:30 GMT
Either they needed to repeat the original lockdown, the only time where we have actually manage to get a handle on the virus, or they need to give up on the idea and lets thousands die and millions suffer lifelong health conditions... It isn't a binary choice to the extreme you are suggesting - it is perfectly possible to keep places that are complying with social distancing open to discourage meetings in private homes, and at the same time close the super spreaders like schools and universities and move them online. Yes, that won't suit everyone, but if you actually want to reduce infection rates you have to look at the root causes of rule breaking and how the rules are most frequently being broken and address that. A full lockdown isn't going to stop people breaking the rules, especially after the length of time this misery has already lasted, but giving them safer choices might reduce the number of people who choose to meet up in private homes. You have to deal with the inevitable fatigue with lockdown, and simply tightening the rules is not going to do that. |
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 11, 2020 19:35:25 GMT
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Post by Dawnstar on Dec 11, 2020 19:57:44 GMT
You have to deal with the inevitable fatigue with lockdown It brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "dying of boredom". |
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 11, 2020 20:26:05 GMT
If they are putting London in Tier 3 I wish they'd stop dilly dallying and tell us.
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Post by jaqs on Dec 13, 2020 14:31:13 GMT
If they are putting London in Tier 3 I wish they'd stop dilly dallying and tell us. If we are, will it happen straight away on Wednesday, or be announced on Wednesday to start Monday (or whenever)? |
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Post by Mark on Dec 13, 2020 14:38:44 GMT
If they are putting London in Tier 3 I wish they'd stop dilly dallying and tell us. If we are, will it happen straight away on Wednesday, or be announced on Wednesday to start Monday (or whenever)? Lots of things going around, including the potential that the West End will stay out of Tier 3 and it will only be the worse affected boroughs. MPs have been told putting London into tier 3 will cause catastrophic economic damage. I have heard anything new would come into place the 19th but not sure how true it is. |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Dec 13, 2020 14:43:36 GMT
From this article if London is raised to Tier 3 it will become effective on Sat 19th. inews.co.uk/news/uk/tier-announcement-when-next-review-date-areas-will-change-covid-restrictions-before-christmas-787012As it is the last Saturday before Christmas will be a brave decision and feel they will bottle it and say it will come in after the Christmas ‘relaxation’ as it will only be in place for 4 days. If this does happen would not be happy if I was a Northerner as many places have been in higher Tiers than London for months with lower infection rates. If it happens will catch the Palladium Panto on Friday but lose 9 Lessons/Carols at the Almeida and Christmas Carol at the Bridge on the Saturday. |
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Post by talkingheads on Dec 13, 2020 15:06:49 GMT
If we are, will it happen straight away on Wednesday, or be announced on Wednesday to start Monday (or whenever)? Lots of things going around, including the potential that the West End will stay out of Tier 3 and it will only be the worse affected boroughs. MPs have been told putting London into tier 3 will cause catastrophic economic damage. I have heard anything new would come into place the 19th but not sure how true it is. So yet again the economy is being put ahead of lives. I get that it's an impossible choice, but the fact is if you keep Oxford Street et al open, people will travel from all over, especially just before Christmas. And especially announcing it on the 16th but not coming into effect until the 19th, on the 17th and 18th the shops will be rammed! I think if they left London out of Tier 3 now there will quite rightly be outrage from the Northern areas with lower infection rates and higher restrictions. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 15:22:02 GMT
Lots of things going around, including the potential that the West End will stay out of Tier 3 and it will only be the worse affected boroughs. MPs have been told putting London into tier 3 will cause catastrophic economic damage. I have heard anything new would come into place the 19th but not sure how true it is. So yet again the economy is being put ahead of lives. I get that it's an impossible choice, but the fact is if you keep Oxford Street et al open, people will travel from all over, especially just before Christmas. And especially announcing it on the 16th but not coming into effect until the 19th, on the 17th and 18th the shops will be rammed! I think if they left London out of Tier 3 now there will quite rightly be outrage from the Northern areas with lower infection rates and higher restrictions. That might be the case if it was the shops causing the infection spike, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. It is schools, universities and private gatherings, none of which will have different rules in Tier 3. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 13, 2020 17:06:19 GMT
Germany going into full lockdown from 16th Dec into January. Christmas effectively cancelled.
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Post by lynette on Dec 13, 2020 17:17:43 GMT
I’m coming round to thinking that the loosening of the rules for Xmas is to save all the journos the trouble of rewriting the ‘Preparations for Xmas’ acres of columns in the newspapers, not to mention the ads. Very little accommodation of our present circumstances. The elaborate food offerings being put forward are frankly, obscene. I’m not a spoilsport....quiet at the back there.....but more thought would be appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 18:36:16 GMT
My father and stepmother are under lockdown over Christmas anyway on account of age and illness. On the whole I think it makes sense to cancel most of Christmas: have presents for the kids as usual because they can't be expected to wait months, but postpone all big get-togethers until the spring when many people will have been vaccinated and the weather will be better.
(Is it too cynical to think that the government's hoping they can justify another lockdown in January so everybody will be stuck at home and won't notice that all the motorways are clogged up with trucks because they botched Brexit?)
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Post by lynette on Dec 13, 2020 19:15:25 GMT
Love this idea, the M: keep the plebs indoors while the revolution starts.
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Post by saral on Dec 13, 2020 19:17:58 GMT
I think the government will put some on London into tier 3 just so it looks like they are doing something, as from the map it looks to be NE London to be the worst affected
I just want the country to be treated equally, I'm in the NE of England and our rates have more than halved in the last 4 weeks to below the national average, if he isn't going to move us then he should move the tier 2 places with higher rates than us to tier 3
I don't agree with the 5 day hiatus over Xmas, seems ridiculous to give a legal option to spread the virus about. My mum is 80 and most of her friends are going to some ones house for Xmas...but all of my friends have said we aren't going to anyone's... remind me again which are the vulnerable group 🤔
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Post by Phantom of London on Dec 13, 2020 22:08:57 GMT
So yet again the economy is being put ahead of lives. I get that it's an impossible choice, but the fact is if you keep Oxford Street et al open, people will travel from all over, especially just before Christmas. And especially announcing it on the 16th but not coming into effect until the 19th, on the 17th and 18th the shops will be rammed! I think if they left London out of Tier 3 now there will quite rightly be outrage from the Northern areas with lower infection rates and higher restrictions. That might be the case if it was the shops causing the infection spike, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. It is schools, universities and private gatherings, none of which will have different rules in Tier 3. No one really knows where people get infected. It is very convenient for the press to say shops are lower risk, especially as shops spend tonnes in advertising. I have heard supermarkets to be one of the worst places for spreading, which is no surprise as mask wearing is not enforced even with their own staff. Queues for checkouts I would say are super spreader event and supermarkets still have checkouts closed, when they have been raking in the cash because of the pandemic. I am happy to agree with that this virus spreads in any confined space whether it is educational or retail and wearing masks help to prevent the spread of the virus. I also agree we will be liberated by vaccines. Germany going into full lockdown from 16th Dec into January. Christmas effectively cancelled. No chance we will go in lockdown again. The Daily Mail were shameful in doing everything to get the lockdown lifted. This is what Boris ultimately listened to. Really no surprise because of the lockdown their circulation has gone through the floor, as people aren’t commuting. The circulation for all newspapers is so poor, that the circulation figures aren’t published anymore. I am not saying we should go into lockdown, but should listen to scientists first. |
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