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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 15:07:51 GMT
Schools are more difficult. The theory is that they are distanced and children out of school would not be as controlled to distance . There's also meant to be few cases originating in schools , and those that do come from outside activities. But twitter today is alive with video of no control, and no distancing in schools, or school transport   and tables of multiple infections. The theory seems not to match reality - at least where the schools have failed to sort out distancing or school transport. The governments own graphs show cases starting to rise steeply when schools went back, and the 16-24 age group being the most infected and spreading the virus to older groups. Schools also represented a bigger impact on the R number than retail or hospitality, On a basic level, I believe schools are staying open because the majority of adults with children are also in an age bracket the government stats say aren’t impacting the NHS (45 and under). Obviously there’s exceptions to the rules and I’m just generalising in terms of the age of parents, and there are other implications too, but on a basic level that makes sense to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 15:10:14 GMT
Schools are more difficult. The theory is that they are distanced and children out of school would not be as controlled to distance . There's also meant to be few cases originating in schools , and those that do come from outside activities. But twitter today is alive with video of no control, and no distancing in schools, or school transport   and tables of multiple infections. The theory seems not to match reality - at least where the schools have failed to sort out distancing or school transport. The governments own graphs show cases starting to rise steeply when schools went back, and the 16-24 age group being the most infected and spreading the virus to older groups. Schools also represented a bigger impact on the R number than retail or hospitality, On a basic level, I believe schools are staying open because the majority of adults with children are also in an age bracket the government stats say aren’t impacting the NHS (45 and under). Obviously there’s exceptions to the rules and I’m just generalising in terms of the age of parents, and there are other implications too, but on a basic level that makes sense to me. Except it doesn't make sense, because those kids and the teachers will all potentially be carriers of the virus back to a much wider group of people than the parents. There is very little social distancing compared to restaurants and pubs, for example. |
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Post by theatreian on Nov 3, 2020 15:17:46 GMT
Except this time if people actually obey the rules the only people kids should be coming into contact with are their household.so the point that those with kids are genuinely younger still goes i guess.
It's not easy whichever way you go as there are experts on all sides saying kids should be at school, those saying the opposite. On balance i think they should be.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 15:27:18 GMT
With schools, Unis, film and TV production, theatre rehearsals and many other workplaces open, isn't this even less of a lockdown than last time, in which case I am struggling to see a lot of positives? With retail not responsible for a lot of the spread, what is the good of closing that sector but not schools? Maybe it's obvious but I just can't see it. I genuinely believe Boris didn’t want to just shut down the hospitality industry. Pubs are the main issue in my opinion and why he couldn’t just shut them months ago is beyond me. Probably because pubs aren't the main issue. I have meals in pubs quite a bit and of all the things I've done that's probably been the safest apart from when I'm completely alone. There's almost no contact between different groups of people. Pubs were already subject to strict hygiene regulations and they're among the places that have taken the new restrictions most seriously and taken the most steps to keep people safe, including innovations that have gone far beyond the strict requirements of law.
I guess when you think of pubs you're thinking of crowds of drinkers round the bar on a Friday night, which absolutely would be a problem and that's why that hasn't been permitted since March.
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Post by greeny11 on Nov 3, 2020 17:16:43 GMT
As someone who works in an 11-16 school, I should point out that the children do not have to distance from each other, only from staff. Therefore, there are large groups of kids close together on the yard, and in the classroom, albeit in rows in the classroom. We have had a few cases, but all have come from outside - no cases as yet of it being transmitted in school, despite being in a Tier 3 area.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 19:16:38 GMT
People are panic buying again, despite being told the shops will stay open just like they stayed open all through the last lockdown. It's like they're completely incapable of learning from experience.
The shops really need to get tough on this, as opposed to their current strategy of tutting disapprovingly to the press while doing absolutely nothing to prevent it.
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Post by sph on Nov 3, 2020 20:17:16 GMT
Panic-buying really does baffle me. Supermarkets are going on as normal through this second lockdown just as they did the one before and all the way through summer. Are people heading for the toilet roll again too? Because that still makes no sense. The British are a bizarre breed.
As for schools, I'd imagine that with 0-15 year-olds being in the least affected group by the virus, it makes sense to at least try to keep giving them an education after missing out on so many months earlier this year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 20:40:54 GMT
With the panic buying it's not just that it's intrinsically stupid, but that the people who are doing it had two months of rising infection numbers to consider stocking up and decided to do nothing until the last second. If you're going to plan for disaster you should at least include some sort of planning.
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Post by adrianics on Nov 3, 2020 21:43:14 GMT
I feel, based purely on my personal experience in the shops, that this time around it's a different shade of "panic buying"; it's many people buying one or two of something (usually because they're worried about panic buying) rather than the first people stockpiling.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2020 23:54:50 GMT
On a basic level, I believe schools are staying open because the majority of adults with children are also in an age bracket the government stats say aren’t impacting the NHS (45 and under). Obviously there’s exceptions to the rules and I’m just generalising in terms of the age of parents, and there are other implications too, but on a basic level that makes sense to me. Except it doesn't make sense, because those kids and the teachers will all potentially be carriers of the virus back to a much wider group of people than the parents. There is very little social distancing compared to restaurants and pubs, for example. It goes back to Boris’ original plan of herd immunity. I’m not saying the virus isn’t spreading throughout these age groups, but they aren’t a burden on the NHS when it is. Under the new lockdown it is unlikely that children will be mixing with those aged 45+ that are more likely to need hospitalisation. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 0:03:16 GMT
I genuinely believe Boris didn’t want to just shut down the hospitality industry. Pubs are the main issue in my opinion and why he couldn’t just shut them months ago is beyond me. Probably because pubs aren't the main issue. I have meals in pubs quite a bit and of all the things I've done that's probably been the safest apart from when I'm completely alone. There's almost no contact between different groups of people. Pubs were already subject to strict hygiene regulations and they're among the places that have taken the new restrictions most seriously and taken the most steps to keep people safe, including innovations that have gone far beyond the strict requirements of law.
I guess when you think of pubs you're thinking of crowds of drinkers round the bar on a Friday night, which absolutely would be a problem and that's why that hasn't been permitted since March.
I’m not actually. I’m thinking of the weekday 5pm crowds, the folks that still pop for a cheeky pint on the way home from work. Or the older people that still belong to workmans clubs etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 7:07:11 GMT
Except it doesn't make sense, because those kids and the teachers will all potentially be carriers of the virus back to a much wider group of people than the parents. There is very little social distancing compared to restaurants and pubs, for example. It goes back to Boris’ original plan of herd immunity. I’m not saying the virus isn’t spreading throughout these age groups, but they aren’t a burden on the NHS when it is. Under the new lockdown it is unlikely that children will be mixing with those aged 45+ that are more likely to need hospitalisation. I think you underestimate the number of grandparents who live with grandchildren or help with childcare... |
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Post by kathryn on Nov 4, 2020 10:37:33 GMT
With the panic buying it's not just that it's intrinsically stupid, but that the people who are doing it had two months of rising infection numbers to consider stocking up and decided to do nothing until the last second. If you're going to plan for disaster you should at least include some sort of planning. I hold my hand up to this - I've been meaning to buy a new winter coat for the past couple of weeks because I've gone up two sizes due to all the stress eating. The supermarkets do stock some clothes as essentials - but they don't exactly carry a huge range of things like winter coats. So I'm going to go and panic-buy one this afternoon - after all, I'm really going to need it as the only way I'll be able to see anyone is outside, and it's now November! Yes, yes, people are stupid and shortsighted. What can you do? And I never got around to that haircut I was going to get a few weeks ago either. You'd think I'd have learnt that lesson from March, wouldn't you?! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2020 11:23:04 GMT
It goes back to Boris’ original plan of herd immunity. I’m not saying the virus isn’t spreading throughout these age groups, but they aren’t a burden on the NHS when it is. Under the new lockdown it is unlikely that children will be mixing with those aged 45+ that are more likely to need hospitalisation. I think you underestimate the number of grandparents who live with grandchildren or help with childcare... I don’t actually. The majority of children do not live with grandparents. I accept grandparents do help with childcare, but if your kids are of an age where they need looking after, I believe grandparents are more likely to be younger grandparents - we aren’t necessarily talking about the higher end ages of the ‘at risk’ groups. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2020 10:28:00 GMT
There's an interesting article on the BBC about how the increase in flexible working required for dealing with the coronavirus has opened up opportunities for mothers of young children who would previously have had very few decent jobs to choose from. Being able to work from home and not having to work fixed hours is removing barriers. Obviously the current slowdown in the economy means there aren't that many jobs available right now, but when things pick up companies will already have the procedures and technology in place to retain that flexibility and employ those who'd find rush-hour commuting impossible. |
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Post by lynette on Nov 5, 2020 11:48:52 GMT
There's an interesting article on the BBC about how the increase in flexible working required for dealing with the coronavirus has opened up opportunities for mothers of young children who would previously have had very few decent jobs to choose from. Being able to work from home and not having to work fixed hours is removing barriers. Obviously the current slowdown in the economy means there aren't that many jobs available right now, but when things pick up companies will already have the procedures and technology in place to retain that flexibility and employ those who'd find rush-hour commuting impossible. I do hope you are right. I doubt though that some firms will adapt to the tech required or the flexibility of attitude required when they don't have to. So much easier to keep to the same old. And we still have the prejudice against working mums ( it still exists out there)in high positions. Keeping the little ‘in out of the zoom was funniest video of all time wasn’t it? But it was a bloke. Would have been different if it had been a woman. People would have criticised. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2020 11:49:15 GMT
I think you underestimate the number of grandparents who live with grandchildren or help with childcare... I don’t actually. The majority of children do not live with grandparents. I accept grandparents do help with childcare, but if your kids are of an age where they need looking after, I believe grandparents are more likely to be younger grandparents - we aren’t necessarily talking about the higher end ages of the ‘at risk’ groups. You will also find this more in poorer families and cultures with multigenerational households. |
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Post by lynette on Nov 5, 2020 11:52:46 GMT
I don’t actually. The majority of children do not live with grandparents. I accept grandparents do help with childcare, but if your kids are of an age where they need looking after, I believe grandparents are more likely to be younger grandparents - we aren’t necessarily talking about the higher end ages of the ‘at risk’ groups. You will also find this more in poorer families and cultures with multigenerational households. Oooooo, younger grandparents eh? Hmm... I’m not going to ask anyone to define that age group. But it conveys all sorts .. |
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Post by talkingheads on Nov 5, 2020 12:29:01 GMT
Furlough scheme extended until March, which indicates lockdown won't be easing on December 2nd:
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Post by Deal J on Nov 5, 2020 12:39:47 GMT
It doesn’t necessarily indicate a lockdown extension though, I understood that this was a reaction to local councils complaining that the furlough scheme wasn’t applied when they were in tier-3 lockdown. I think their implication was that the furlough scheme was only deemed necessary if London has to go into lockdown.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Nov 5, 2020 12:52:55 GMT
Agree, does not indicate the extension of the lockdown per se but it does indicate the expectation that there will be extensive disruption until next spring even if it may be via the Tier system.
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Post by talkingheads on Nov 5, 2020 13:44:56 GMT
Johnson expected at press conference around 8PM:
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 5, 2020 14:47:36 GMT
Bumbling to the nation. Eugh
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Post by karloscar on Nov 5, 2020 15:36:42 GMT
With the panic buying it's not just that it's intrinsically stupid, but that the people who are doing it had two months of rising infection numbers to consider stocking up and decided to do nothing until the last second. If you're going to plan for disaster you should at least include some sort of planning. I hold my hand up to this - I've been meaning to buy a new winter coat for the past couple of weeks because I've gone up two sizes due to all the stress eating. The supermarkets do stock some clothes as essentials - but they don't exactly carry a huge range of things like winter coats. So I'm going to go and panic-buy one this afternoon - after all, I'm really going to need it as the only way I'll be able to see anyone is outside, and it's now November! Yes, yes, people are stupid and shortsighted. What can you do? And I never got around to that haircut I was going to get a few weeks ago either. You'd think I'd have learnt that lesson from March, wouldn't you?! I take it Kathryn is a pseudonym for Richi Sunak! Your inability to plan ahead gave you away! 😘 |
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Post by kathryn on Nov 5, 2020 16:27:31 GMT
The weird thing is I can plan months or years ahead when it comes to things like theatre and holidays! it's only things like winter and haircuts that fox me.
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