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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 6, 2022 8:22:30 GMT
Utterly ruthless the Tory party, in every way. Ruthless
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2,496 posts
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Post by zahidf on Jun 6, 2022 11:28:12 GMT
Utterly ruthless the Tory party, in every way. Ruthless Lets see. BJ is like a cockroach |
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 6, 2022 13:15:43 GMT
I want to see The Liar gone more than anything in the world, but the current party is absolutely rotten to the core and whoever replaces him will hold the same abhorrent values. Plus he will never resign willingly. It will be interesting to see who does stand up to him. Even the most ardent Boris supporter can't be blind to the fact that he's losing them support all over. I did find it very amusing that Nadine Dorries tweeted today that The Government's pandemic preparation was "wanting and inadequate". That's quite the own goal.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2022 13:25:24 GMT
I don't hold out any hope that my MP will vote against Johnson. He's an obedient little puppet, my MP. As much spine as a jellyfish.
I find it depressing how many Conservative voters still think Johnson's a good PM. "He apologised", they say, as if reluctantly expressing regret for getting caught after months of trying to lie his way out of the situation is anything other than complete contempt for the public. If you fight every step of the way you're clearly not sorry.
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 6, 2022 14:36:29 GMT
Also, my worry is that if Boris goes, the Tories have two years with a leader who, even if they are slightly better, will win them the next election. If Boris stays, it's two years of in-fighting in the Tory party and almost certainly won't win the next election. Short term hardship for long term gain.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 6, 2022 15:44:44 GMT
I would suggest that some MP’s backing Boris, such as Gove, Truss & Raab cannot be seen to be disloyal? But will vote differently behind closed doors.
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Post by zahidf on Jun 6, 2022 15:57:53 GMT
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 6, 2022 20:13:27 GMT
So he won the no confidence vote which, let's face it, we all knew he would. But 148 no confidence is even worse than Theresa May. The Tories are in such a bad place right now, so I'm taking comfort in that at least. The longer he stays, the worse it gets for them.
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7,183 posts
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Post by Jon on Jun 6, 2022 22:45:21 GMT
Boris is a goner in the long term but who replaces him is the bigger question.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 11:31:41 GMT
To have 40% of your party vote against you is a big number and not much fewer than that persuaded Mrs Thatcher to step down in 1990 leadership vote.
I vote right of centre and likely always will but Boris needs to go. Not sure who replaces him - Raab's star doesn't shine so bright now, Sunak possibly too young, would Tory rank and file elect an Asian Leader and if some a more Tory traditionalist stomg on law and order Mrs Patel might be better shout there. Sajid Javid could be the compromise Asian candidate he did both Rishi's and Pritti's jobs previously and is back in cabinet. Came from humble beginnings and has more experience than other two.
Jeremy Hunt was runner up last time, held senior office and hasn't been immeresed in the Boris government's issues. Likely to stand again but is he OM material and reminds a fair few of Tony Blair plus was the rhyming name for detractors to have fun with.
A guy called Tom Tugendhat has said he'd likely stand, no ministerial experience but former Army officer and from a political family.
The right of the party would likely field someone possibly Gove again. JRM might be popular with dyed in the wool Tories and would have the gravitas to do the job but his views on populist topics would never sit well with the younger generation so he'd be more a kingmaker.
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Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2022 11:58:02 GMT
To have 40% of your party vote against you is a big number and not much fewer than that persuaded Mrs Thatcher to step down in 1990 leadership vote. I vote right of centre and likely always will but Boris needs to go. Not sure who replaces him - Raab's star doesn't shine so bright now, Sunak possibly too young, would Tory rank and file elect an Asian Leader and if some a more Tory traditionalist stomg on law and order Mrs Patel might be better shout there. Sajid Javid could be the compromise Asian candidate he did both Rishi's and Pritti's jobs previously and is back in cabinet. Came from humble beginnings and has more experience than other two. Jeremy Hunt was runner up last time, held senior office and hasn't been immeresed in the Boris government's issues. Likely to stand again but is he OM material and reminds a fair few of Tony Blair plus was the rhyming name for detractors to have fun with. A guy called Tom Tugendhat has said he'd likely stand, no ministerial experience but former Army officer and from a political family. The right of the party would likely field someone possibly Gove again. JRM might be popular with dyed in the wool Tories and would have the gravitas to do the job but his views on populist topics would never sit well with the younger generation so he'd be more a kingmaker. Gove would ensure they'd lose the next election. He's got as much charisma as a sock. Likewise with Patel. Raab I doubt it and I have a feeling he'll lose his seat in the next election. My guess is that it'll be between Sunak, Truss and maybe Javid. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 14:50:40 GMT
I would have said Raab or Sunak would be the best candidates but I think both their reputations are now tarnished that they are unelectable.
A complete clear out might be the best way forward if they are looking to an election next year.
It's bloody depressing though that there isn't a decent or inspiring choice across all parties really.
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Post by talkingheads on Jun 7, 2022 15:34:55 GMT
I just think having a billionaire as PM would be very, very wrong. Sunak has absolutely no clue as to the struggles ordinary people go through and I would hate to have him lead the country.
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2,339 posts
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 7, 2022 16:21:14 GMT
To have 40% of your party vote against you is a big number and not much fewer than that persuaded Mrs Thatcher to step down in 1990 leadership vote. I vote right of centre and likely always will but Boris needs to go. Not sure who replaces him - Raab's star doesn't shine so bright now, Sunak possibly too young, would Tory rank and file elect an Asian Leader and if some a more Tory traditionalist stomg on law and order Mrs Patel might be better shout there. Sajid Javid could be the compromise Asian candidate he did both Rishi's and Pritti's jobs previously and is back in cabinet. Came from humble beginnings and has more experience than other two. Jeremy Hunt was runner up last time, held senior office and hasn't been immeresed in the Boris government's issues. Likely to stand again but is he OM material and reminds a fair few of Tony Blair plus was the rhyming name for detractors to have fun with. A guy called Tom Tugendhat has said he'd likely stand, no ministerial experience but former Army officer and from a political family. The right of the party would likely field someone possibly Gove again. JRM might be popular with dyed in the wool Tories and would have the gravitas to do the job but his views on populist topics would never sit well with the younger generation so he'd be more a kingmaker. Sir Keir not up your street then, must be closer to centre right than any of the cabinet members mentioned? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 17:37:12 GMT
Even though I'm not a Labour voter I would say Sir Kier is electable and the first truly electable leader Labour have had since Tony Blair. John Smith would have won in 1997 if he had lived but not with majority TB got. Gordon Brown likewise and Labour would have likely remained in power until 2005 to 2007. When you consider if John Smith had lived how much it might have changed British politics - He'd have won in 1997, probably again in 2001/2002 I then believe he'd have retired circa 2004/2005. He'd have been mid to late 60's then could have had health issues and with 12 plus years as party leader he hands onto his protege Gordon Brown. Gordon possibly loses next election or doesn't get a majority so is replaced by Blair circa 2007 for next election in 2010/11 so Blair either wins that or forms the coalition with Clegg and co.
The police investigation into Sir Kier could actually be huge as if he stays I think Labour go very close to power or get a majority. If he goes I cannot see a better replacement out there and Labour will have policy issues which way the party goes.
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Post by Jan on Jun 7, 2022 17:59:27 GMT
The police investigation into Sir Kier could actually be huge as if he stays I think Labour go very close to power or get a majority. Labour can't realistically get a majority without significantly displacing the SNP in Scotland. I don't see anything in Starmer's policies or messaging that would swing SNP voters, not least because Starmer is a unionist. On the other hand the price of a coalition with the SNP would be an independence referendum which if it succeeds would put Labour permanently out of power in rUK. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 7, 2022 19:03:12 GMT
The police investigation into Sir Kier could actually be huge as if he stays I think Labour go very close to power or get a majority. Labour can't realistically get a majority without significantly displacing the SNP in Scotland. I don't see anything in Starmer's policies or messaging that would swing SNP voters, not least because Starmer is a unionist. On the other hand the price of a coalition with the SNP would be an independence referendum which if it succeeds would put Labour permanently out of power in rUK. Only one Labour majority needed the Scottish vote. I think the nasty party have more to worry about in places like Tiverton. Can see a four way party split with everyone joining a coalition against |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 7, 2022 19:27:12 GMT
Or the Liberal Democrats could do well in the next general election and take southern Tory seats, with the red wall crumbling and going back to Labour, Tiverton and Wakefield are excellent litmus tests, for my believes.
Besides with 41% of Tory mp’s wanting to see Boris gone, how could he run discipline in the political party, how could he do a reshuffle and alienate even more of his mps. The whips are ineffective on whipping for votes, ensuring that Government will lose bills.
As Theresa May is a dead woman walking, Boris is now a dead man walking.
Unless he calls a general election, then refer to my first sentence on this post.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jun 7, 2022 20:31:25 GMT
The only definitive outcome of a Labour led coalition will be PR, the entry ticket for the Lib Dems and SNP and in reality Labour would not need too much coercion.
Scotland unlikely to vote for independence and the knowledge that with PR the Tories will never again be the largest Party will sway it.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 8, 2022 8:23:25 GMT
The only definitive outcome of a Labour led coalition will be PR, the entry ticket for the Lib Dems and SNP and in reality Labour would not need too much coercion. Scotland unlikely to vote for independence and the knowledge that with PR the Tories will never again be the largest Party will sway it. Doesn't the Labour Party like it's chance to govern for a term every twenty years when the Tory party just become too nasty? Going to be coalition trouble |
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jun 8, 2022 8:49:25 GMT
I think the large majority and the chaotic Governance at the moment will make PR inevitable if the Tories lose the next election.
Do not have any strong feeling either way but how this Government have used their mandate to trash the unwritten rules of Government we cannot really risk giving too much power to one individual again, whether a written constitution or PR changes are required to rein in a rogue PM.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 9:41:15 GMT
Last time we had a referendum to move away from the first-past-the-post system the Tory-backed press held a big scare campaign claiming that it would be the end of democracy and a violation of the principle of "one man, one vote". I expect the same next time, given that the newspapers' owners seem to feel that each of them is the man who should have the vote.
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Post by lynette on Jun 8, 2022 15:35:50 GMT
I used to think that PR would allow for odd people with unacceptable views to have a place in parliament. You see where I am going with this? Yes, I see odd people with unacceptable views in the two main parties. I used to think that the constant need to make alliances would mean that nothing ever got done. Yep, you can see where I’m at. So….I might actually like to see PR.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 8, 2022 15:52:18 GMT
I used to think that PR would allow for odd people with unacceptable views to have a place in parliament. You see where I am going with this? Yes, I see odd people with unacceptable views in the two main parties. I used to think that the constant need to make alliances would mean that nothing ever got done. Yep, you can see where I’m at. So….I might actually like to see PR. Be a real change for politics in this country, parties not used to working together at government level. Still don't see it happening at the moment though |
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Post by kathryn on Jun 8, 2022 16:35:36 GMT
I used to think that PR would allow for odd people with unacceptable views to have a place in parliament. You see where I am going with this? Yes, I see odd people with unacceptable views in the two main parties. I used to think that the constant need to make alliances would mean that nothing ever got done. Yep, you can see where I’m at. So….I might actually like to see PR. Yes, it’s hard to see how we would end up worse off under PR given the utter clowns we needed up with in Parliament under FPTP! Though the constitutional checks-and-balances failing to work is probably the bigger concern. It’s not so much that it’s an ‘unwritten constitution’, it’s that enforcement of the norms is based on the honour system, and the current lot don’t have any honour. Doesn’t matter if the constitution is written down or based around traditions and norms of there’s no way to actually enforce it. |
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