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Post by samuelwhiskers on May 20, 2022 13:36:04 GMT
Imagine having voted for the alternative - a bunch of anti-Semitic Putin apologists advising a leader who has now had the Labour whip removed. Corbyn was by no means perfect, but Anti-Semitism in the party reduced under his leadership, and the Tories are way more compromised wrt Russia than Corbyn ever was. You appear to have fallen, like many others, for a very successful smear campaign. As a Jewish person I’d love to know what “reduced antisemitism” means in practice. Pretty sick of Jews being told our concerns over our own safety as a minority group who are subject to some of the most insidious and constant racism in this country is a smear campaign. But on the other hand equally sick of Tory politicians exploiting our concerns for their own political agenda. In general, non-Jews need to let Jewish people decide what is and isn’t antisemetic (not aimed at anyone on this forum as obviously don’t know anyone’s religion, just a general observation). |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 15:03:41 GMT
Antisemitism IMO is just another way of dressing up racism towards Jewish people but in some cases is used to describe negative reactions to the way Israel interacts with some of it's neighbours.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on May 20, 2022 15:22:54 GMT
This discussion has nothing to do with Israel and no one has mentioned Israel.
It’s very disturbing that the second Jews speak, like clockwork someone immediately pops up to say “but whatabout Israel.”
Like clockwork.
EVERY time.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2022 18:58:19 GMT
This discussion has nothing to do with Israel and no one has mentioned Israel. It’s very disturbing that the second Jews speak, like clockwork someone immediately pops up to say “but whatabout Israel.” Like clockwork. EVERY time. I was trying to quantify why the term anti semetism is used instead of racism. A lot of the anti Jewish feeling in the labour party was due to certain factions of it supporting the likes of the PLO for example and then you have the state of Israel surrounded by largely muslim countries. I always liked Yasser Arafat but also thought Mosad were cool as heck so I'm neutral as far as that goes. |
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Post by samuelwhiskers on May 21, 2022 13:28:55 GMT
It’s not about that, it’s just utterly exhausting that non-Jewish people can discuss antisemitism until the cows come home, but the second a Jew speaks, someone brings up Israel. It’s hard not to be over sensitive when you experience it every day.
Politicians on both sides exploit things for their own agendas but we know the difference between racism, and criticism of a government we didn’t vote for in a foreign country many of us have never even been to, but nonetheless often used to justify racism against us.
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Post by talkingheads on May 23, 2022 15:22:07 GMT
Here come the photos. Unequivocal proof that Johnson lied. I wish this meant he would resign, but that would mean he possessed a modicum of shame or guilt, which he does not.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2022 16:14:55 GMT
Were people who broke the Covid rules and were fined named?
Anything that goes to the magistrates court is published with the outcome unless it is a sensitive case.
But for the likes of driving in a bus lane, not having correct transport ticket, dropping litter are those fines published ?
If they are then anyone at these parties should be named if they wre fined.
People know I'm a Tory but I think he needs to go but being a Tory means he is unlikely to have many morals.
Weekly Meeting With the Queen
Boris: I hear you aren't going to Trooping the Colour your majesty?
HM: I think you should go Prime Minister
Boris: Yes of course I'm going your majesty just the stand which collapsed I might have been sitting in that
HM: Yes terrible pity but I didn't mean Trooping the Colour I meant go as in when someone is replaced
Boris: Don't worry your majesty, I'll guide Prince Charles through the initial period
HM: That is what I was worried about. No I meant you being replaced. I think you should go Prime Minister
Boris: Um Ahh, yes your majesty I'll take that on board
HM: Yes to a destination far away I hear the Falklands needs a new Governor General?
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Post by talkingheads on May 25, 2022 11:47:00 GMT
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Post by Jon on May 25, 2022 12:27:48 GMT
Fascinating interview with Dame Sarah Gilbert on This Morning:
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Post by crowblack on May 25, 2022 12:32:04 GMT
What's the endgame on this? As a Left-winger I really cannot see the point in it all. Cummings' revenge, distraction from global events, lots of taxpayers' money p**sed up the wall in enquiries, and the slight possibility of Johnson going and then what, he'd be replaced by another Tory leader even more hardline.
I do find it very bizarre that all those people, especially FBPE types who a year ago thought Cummings was the devil incarnate now think he'd some kind of force for good.
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Post by vdcni on May 25, 2022 13:41:50 GMT
No one thinks Cumming is a force for good, we're just enjoying watching them tear each other apart.
Endgame, how about a PM with some level of honesty and decency. One who isn't utterly corrupt. A cabinet with some ministers in there worthy of the name.
If you could point towards a positive thing this government are trying to achieve that they are being distracted from that would be great.
The government under Johnson is introducing lots of very right wing policies. I'm not sure who is supposed to be the worse option there at this point.
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Post by crowblack on May 25, 2022 15:05:35 GMT
The Government is appalling, but I don't think this will result in a general election, and if there's a leadership election who will we get? I remember my housemates singing 'ding dong the witch is dead' when Thatcher went, but her replacement - refreshment - won the Tories another term, and Kinnock and the shadow cabinet of those days were far more formidable politicians than Starmer and his bunch of overgrown students.
And I don't enjoy watching the govt and political parties tearing each other apart at this point in time. It's a huge distraction from what is going on in the world right now, the full impact of which we have yet to really feel but is coming down the line with the food supply chain and energy. A major global 'breadbasket' is unable to produce food and Russia is blocking off its trade routes. This is medieval warfare.
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Post by vdcni on May 25, 2022 16:44:55 GMT
This is the goverment that had decided to spend time criminalising peaceful protest, coming up with a wildly expensive and impractical scheme to ship refugees off to Africa, taking a run at the EU most weeks over a protocal it agreed to and sold in to the electorate, taking control of the electoral commission, introducing voter ID and selling off C4 for no good reason.
They have spent more time bitching about wokeness then confronting the cost of living crisis so I'm a bit mystified by the idea that partygate is the problem.
And of course they brought it on themselves by lying about it for weeks until they were forced to set up an investigation. If Johnson cared about anything but himself he'd have stepped down by now.
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Post by crowblack on May 25, 2022 17:08:34 GMT
This is the goverment that had decided to spend time criminalising peaceful protest, coming up with a wildly expensive and impractical scheme to ship refugees off to Africa, taking a run at the EU most weeks over a protocal it agreed to and sold in to the electorate, taking control of the electoral commission, introducing voter ID and selling off C4 for no good reason. All of which we should have been busy trying to stop but instead the news headline agenda has been utterly dominated by this one 'story' that is being drip-fed by Cummings to a media that has always enjoyed reporting Westminster bubble nonsense rather than real world issues that have a actual impact on people's day to day lives. All the other things have gone under the radar, 'a good day to bury bad news' style, in favour of an obsession with 'the sue gray report' which the chattering classes think will be the magic fairy dust that will make it 2016 again. They just followed the reporting on the radio this afternoon with the Eurythmics' Dave Stewart visiting from the USA and he sounded amazed that with everything going on in the world we were so obsessed with poring over this trivia from 2 years ago. |
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Post by vdcni on May 26, 2022 7:10:29 GMT
This is the goverment that had decided to spend time criminalising peaceful protest, coming up with a wildly expensive and impractical scheme to ship refugees off to Africa, taking a run at the EU most weeks over a protocal it agreed to and sold in to the electorate, taking control of the electoral commission, introducing voter ID and selling off C4 for no good reason. All of which we should have been busy trying to stop but instead the news headline agenda has been utterly dominated by this one 'story' that is being drip-fed by Cummings to a media that has always enjoyed reporting Westminster bubble nonsense rather than real world issues that have a actual impact on people's day to day lives. All the other things have gone under the radar, 'a good day to bury bad news' style, in favour of an obsession with 'the sue gray report' which the chattering classes think will be the magic fairy dust that will make it 2016 again. They just followed the reporting on the radio this afternoon with the Eurythmics' Dave Stewart visiting from the USA and he sounded amazed that with everything going on in the world we were so obsessed with poring over this trivia from 2 years ago. All those things did face opposition but there is a limit to what you can do when a government has the majority it has and has a mostly tame media lining up behind it. And there's plenty of coverage of the cost of living crisis and the opposition have been raising it constantly. The government have dragged their feet on it but that's nothing to do with being distracted by this. You can call it Westminster bubble if you like but polls indicate that this story has cut through properly. While I'd love people to get worked up about all the horrible policies the government have introduced realistically this reaches out to people personally in a way those other points don't. It isn't trivia, it speaks to something wider about honesty, integrity and this governments refusal to accept that the rules apply to them. People thought we were all in it together and many many people have a story of who they didn't see and then lost in the same weeks and months that Number 10 was party central. Yes this should have been over sooner but it has been dragged out because the government lied about it for so long and the Met refused to properly investigate it for months - arguably they still haven't properly investigated. We can see that this has caused many people to abandon support for this government as their decline in the polls can be dated to these revelations and I don't see how anyone genuinely opposed to this government can object to that. |
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Post by crowblack on May 26, 2022 9:48:21 GMT
I'm on the Left - old Labour / socialist Left, though not one of the Corbyn 'anyone who hates the West is great' types - but I really do think this is a distraction being orchestrated by Cummings and from within the Tory party, especially from the 'anti-lockdown' brigade and you have to ask yourself why? The timing of the first leaks 'conveniently' meant that safety measures were stood down here when other countries maintained them, and it served - and continues to serve - Russia well.
I'll add it may be a geographical thing but where I live lockdowns weren't well observed either , including two of the four local pubs and a gym having illegal lock ins. Older people were careful but younger ones were acting 'like it was Creamfields', in the words of the local website. No. of course I don't think the behaviour in Westminster was 'good' - it was wrong, but given the type of people and the alcohol culture at Westminster always, it didn't particularly surprise me.
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Post by Jan on May 26, 2022 9:50:56 GMT
Number 10 was party central. And almost all those parties were organised and attended by civil servants, some of them ONLY by civil servants, rather than politicians and SPADS and if Labour took over tomorrow they'd all be still there, all those blurred faces being protected by the PCS union and the civil service HR department, all those people who report not to the politicians at all but to the head of the civil service Simon Case who hasn't even been fined for attending the event Boris and Sunak attended, people like Martin "We got away with it" Reynolds who is apparently going to be rewarded by being made an ambassador to Saudi rather than fired. And yet we have heard nothing from Starmer, or anyone else really, about how these civil service failings should and will be addressed. |
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Post by Jan on May 26, 2022 10:10:47 GMT
... coming up with a wildly expensive and impractical scheme to ship refugees off to Africa It only looks expensive if you assume it will have no deterrent effect in reducing the number of cross-channel arrivals (currently 28,500 a year). If it reduces that number, as is likely, it will mean the government saves on the current hotel bill for housing those people (currently ÂŁ4.7 million per day). If it reduces total arrivals by 50% it is approximately cost-neutral. I'm not sure it's impractical either, refugees from other countries have already been transferred to Rwanda (by the UN) and there are facilities already there - it may be currently impractical in UK legal terms. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 10:19:29 GMT
Over the last 5 or 6 years we have had Brexit, the pandemic and now the cost of living crisis so a lot of other policies have got pushed to the back burner. When Cummings was done for Barnard Castle how come some of these parties didn't come to light. Police are on duty at Downing Street and have the power to act as such but were they worried about losing plumb postings?
The Acting Met Comissioner is up in front of the London Assembley today so we might get some answers. Also who initiated the parties if it was Civil Servants then I'd see the Gov looking to place blame there if they could.
I think in the current situation that certain decisions have to be made and pushed through and we need someone who will just do "What needs to be done". Some protests are justified but others are just a nuisance and green policies at the moment are down the list when people need to eat and heat, likewise the tax on certain foods, better to eat unhealthily than not at all. Also with more jobs than people and set minimum wages people perhaps need to cut out none essentials to get through so less phone upgrades, designer clothes, new tattoos, subscriptions etc. Maybe Martyn Lewis should be Chancellor as he is one of few people who speaks sense.
Things I can see getting worse before they get better if costs rising we'll see the key workers wanting rises quite rightly and those who have the power to strike and cause major disruption doing so will use that weapon. There is talk of civil unrest I really hope this doesn't happen as it will just push more people to either side of the political extremes more.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 10:24:20 GMT
Number 10 was party central. And almost all those parties were organised and attended by civil servants, some of them ONLY by civil servants, rather than politicians and SPADS and if Labour took over tomorrow they'd all be still there, all those blurred faces being protected by the PCS union and the civil service HR department, all those people who report not to the politicians at all but to the head of the civil service Simon Case who hasn't even been fined for attending the event Boris and Sunak attended, people like Martin "We got away with it" Reynolds who is apparently going to be rewarded by being made an ambassador to Saudi rather than fired. And yet we have heard nothing from Starmer, or anyone else really, about how these civil service failings should and will be addressed. I doubt many of the people at party and rank and file PCS members, probably FDA or other specialist unions. At least Martin Reynolds won't be able to have alcohol in his new posting |
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Post by og on May 26, 2022 15:19:28 GMT
Really sad to read about the devastating Covid continues to have on some theatres.
Royal Exchange Manchester appears to be struggling currently, according to The Mill, an independent newspaper in Manchester.
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Post by marob on May 26, 2022 16:01:16 GMT
I used to go there a fair bit, would more often than not get a season ticket and was on the £5 a month membership scheme, but I haven’t been there since Wuthering Heights just before the pandemic. Really didn’t like that show, and the fact it was directed by one of the then-new people co-running the place put me off a bit.
Then there was nothing in the reopening season announcement that interested me, and the current season is mostly stuff I’d seen before. I’m not that fussed on The Glass Menagerie but if I go to see it again it’ll be the Amy Adams one in London.
Added to that is the fact it took me months and months to get my money back for my season ticket, with a different excuse every time for why they hadn’t refunded me, so that again put me off going there. I carried on paying my membership through the lockdowns, but once they reopened I cancelled it.
And it’s also how I feel about the Everyman and Playhouse theatres in Liverpool. I’ve only been there once since they reopened and I wouldn’t have done that except they had a new Matthew Bourne show on there.
It is a shame, but yeah, “f***ing s***show” sounds about right. I guess the lesson is: don’t take your audiences for granted.
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Post by talkingheads on May 27, 2022 17:09:53 GMT
In today's edition of 'The UK is now a dictatorship'...
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2022 17:46:40 GMT
It was either Sarkozy or Chirac in France who when their Government lost a cvase in European Courts they would merely amend the loophole so it didn't happen again. So changing rulings for ones own policies is something a lot of Presidents/PMs do if they have the majority but whether it is ethical here is another question.
The idea also who should have fonal say the courts or the elected government is a thorny topic also and you can argue it either way.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2022 17:49:27 GMT
In today's edition of 'The UK is now a dictatorship'... Apparently it's only in the case of "minor" breaches, but guess who gets to decide whether it's minor? That's right: they get to judge themselves.
What I find most infuriating is that no matter how corrupt the Tories become they'll still pick up tens of millions of votes from people who are fine with corruption as long as it's their side that is winning from it. All the people who look at other countries and wonder how their obviously corrupt leaders maintain their popularity: this is how.
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