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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 15, 2021 5:17:54 GMT
Dawnstar sending you my love in your difficult position. We all make choices and yours would be similar to mine if I was in your position as we know those who are vaccinated can become ill and if already suffering from other conditions it is something the person can do without. All I can say is all things pass, usually not as fast as we would like but they do, sacrifices for the ones we love are tough but we know they are the right thing to do. Here’s to your first visit to the Mischief crew, it may not be tomorrow but the time will come when you can begin to live again.
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 15, 2021 12:29:22 GMT
Is your mother double jabbed too though? Because if she is her risk should also be very low. If you choose not to go out or leave your road etc, that's up to you of course, but it's a shame to live your life that way. Sitting at home wishing you had died of Covid surely can't be better than just going out as a vaccinated person and having some sort of life for yourself? Unfortunately there will never be a 100% guaranteed vaccine or a 100% effective medicine for anything, that's just not how medicine works, but our vaccines and medicines are certainly very good. I just think it would be a shame to lose out on so much for yourself when statistically speaking there's no reason the vaccine shouldn't protect both you AND your mother, if you've both had them. She is fully vaccinated but only a couple of weeks after her 2nd jab she had to start taking medicine that has immunosupressant side-effects, so how effective her vaccinations will be is unknown. Unfortunately we also both had AstraZeneca, which doesn't help my confidence. Dawnstar sending you my love in your difficult position. We all make choices and yours would be similar to mine if I was in your position as we know those who are vaccinated can become ill and if already suffering from other conditions it is something the person can do without. All I can say is all things pass, usually not as fast as we would like but they do, sacrifices for the ones we love are tough but we know they are the right thing to do. Here’s to your first visit to the Mischief crew, it may not be tomorrow but the time will come when you can begin to live again. Thank you very much for your kind message. I have tickets for Magic Goes Wrong at my local theatre on 10th August and Mischief Movie Night at Regent's Park on 27th August (both booked before at least some of my mother's health problems showed themselves) but whether or not I'll be able to go to either is another matter. It'll depend on the covid rates next month, and with the unlocking on 19th July the rates will probably be too high.
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Post by poster J on Jul 15, 2021 12:38:34 GMT
Is your mother double jabbed too though? Because if she is her risk should also be very low. If you choose not to go out or leave your road etc, that's up to you of course, but it's a shame to live your life that way. Sitting at home wishing you had died of Covid surely can't be better than just going out as a vaccinated person and having some sort of life for yourself? Unfortunately there will never be a 100% guaranteed vaccine or a 100% effective medicine for anything, that's just not how medicine works, but our vaccines and medicines are certainly very good. I just think it would be a shame to lose out on so much for yourself when statistically speaking there's no reason the vaccine shouldn't protect both you AND your mother, if you've both had them. She is fully vaccinated but only a couple of weeks after her 2nd jab she had to start taking medicine that has immunosupressant side-effects, so how effective her vaccinations will be is unknown. Unfortunately we also both had AstraZeneca, which doesn't help my confidence. Dawnstar sending you my love in your difficult position. We all make choices and yours would be similar to mine if I was in your position as we know those who are vaccinated can become ill and if already suffering from other conditions it is something the person can do without. All I can say is all things pass, usually not as fast as we would like but they do, sacrifices for the ones we love are tough but we know they are the right thing to do. Here’s to your first visit to the Mischief crew, it may not be tomorrow but the time will come when you can begin to live again. Thank you very much for your kind message. I have tickets for Magic Goes Wrong at my local theatre on 10th August and Mischief Movie Night at Regent's Park on 27th August (both booked before at least some of my mother's health problems showed themselves) but whether or not I'll be able to go to either is another matter. It'll depend on the covid rates next month, and with the unlocking on 19th July the rates will probably be too high. I'm due to be at Regent's Park post-unlocking (I have Carousel booked for 31 July) so will let you know how it goes. They have already emailed me to say they are encouraging everyone to wear masks and to be mindful of the fact that the person next to you may be nervous or uncomfortable sitting next to someone who isn't wearing a mask.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jul 15, 2021 13:39:39 GMT
What's becoming quite clear is that very little changes on Monday, things might be changing in Law but businesses are basically expected to keep all existing rules in place and I imagine they all will in the main. It's certainly no "freedom day" and I'm afraid I've lost all hope of there ever being one. Guttingly it seems this is as good as it gets.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 15, 2021 15:03:22 GMT
What's becoming quite clear is that very little changes on Monday, things might be changing in Law but businesses are basically expected to keep all existing rules in place and I imagine they all will in the main. It's certainly no "freedom day" and I'm afraid I've lost all hope of there ever being one. Guttingly it seems this is as good as it gets. I know, brilliant isn't it? That so many businesses are putting the safety of their staff and customers first despite what the Government say. We only have to wait until everybody has, or has been offered, both jabs, which is only a few weeks away.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Jul 15, 2021 16:11:43 GMT
Maybe there is a reason why no country wants Astra Zeneca anymore - never was in the USA - maybe there is a reason why the infections are exploding in the UK in the moment - The age groups that the infection level is rising most sharply in aren't the ones that have had the AZ vaccine though. And to be honest, even if it isn't completely effective at stopping you catching it, but is effective at stopping hospitalisations and deaths that's still a very good thing! Plus it's likely to be the only one that's useable in some places due to (a) the temperatures it can be transported at and (b) the fact AZ are selling it at cost.
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 15, 2021 16:24:33 GMT
I'm due to be at Regent's Park post-unlocking (I have Carousel booked for 31 July) so will let you know how it goes. They have already emailed me to say they are encouraging everyone to wear masks and to be mindful of the fact that the person next to you may be nervous or uncomfortable sitting next to someone who isn't wearing a mask. Thanks. Yes, I had that email too. I did deliberately book by an aisle so that if they went to full capacity, which they are doing, at least there would only be a person on one side. Having to take the train an hour each way to & from London is probably a bigger issue for me than the sitting in an open air theatre.
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jul 15, 2021 17:23:06 GMT
Maybe there is a reason why no country wants Astra Zeneca anymore - never was in the USA - maybe there is a reason why the infections are exploding in the UK in the moment - The age groups that the infection level is rising most sharply in aren't the ones that have had the AZ vaccine though. And to be honest, even if it isn't completely effective at stopping you catching it, but is effective at stopping hospitalisations and deaths that's still a very good thing! Plus it's likely to be the only one that's useable in some places due to (a) the temperatures it can be transported at and (b) the fact AZ are selling it at cost. The temperatures are no problem...Biontech/Moderna can be put in a refrigerator 5-6 days...known for month now...and sometimes quality is a bit more expensive....
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 15, 2021 17:38:23 GMT
What's becoming quite clear is that very little changes on Monday, things might be changing in Law but businesses are basically expected to keep all existing rules in place and I imagine they all will in the main. It's certainly no "freedom day" and I'm afraid I've lost all hope of there ever being one. Guttingly it seems this is as good as it gets. What did you want to do Monday that you still believe you won't be able to?
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jul 15, 2021 17:43:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 18:11:03 GMT
What's becoming quite clear is that very little changes on Monday, things might be changing in Law but businesses are basically expected to keep all existing rules in place and I imagine they all will in the main. It's certainly no "freedom day" and I'm afraid I've lost all hope of there ever being one. Guttingly it seems this is as good as it gets. I know, brilliant isn't it? That so many businesses are putting the safety of their staff and customers first despite what the Government say. We only have to wait until everybody has, or has been offered, both jabs, which is only a few weeks away. Whether it’s brilliant or not depends on how many tickets/meals etc the businesses in question sell, I guess. As for ‘only a few weeks away’, that could take us to the end of August, which puts us remarkably close to autumn, and the times when respiratory viruses will kick in again. Some experts said previously that if we didn’t unlock fully over summer, we’d be stuck with restrictions til next March. I’m really hoping that turns out not to be the case, but if it is, lord knows what state the theatre industry (in particular) will be in by then.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Jul 15, 2021 18:17:59 GMT
I disagree with you on the transport point — yes, in a fridge for 5-6 days is great. But if you have no -80 freezers, or supply of dry ice, or even if you do but have fluctuating electricity you could have a problem. The 5-6 days to get out to a remote area and run a clinic and get back might be ok, if you have a base with rock solid electricity and good infrastructure, but if you don't, then your entire stock could be wiped out. And because you need two doses, that's months you have to be able to keep it for.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Jul 15, 2021 19:41:32 GMT
I'm really talking about in less developed countries.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 16, 2021 9:27:10 GMT
There was some talking down of the AZ vaccine in the thread earlier, a new study takes a positive stance, all we know is that all vaccines provide protection which is borne out in the fatality figures being incomparable to current infection rates. www.thesun.co.uk/news/15605950/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-lifetime-protection/No vaccine is a 100% but if vaccinated unless you have an underlying condition your risk of being hospitalised is significantly reduced whichever vaccine you have. I consider vaccination in the same way as I consider seat belts and air bags in cars, will they save my life in most accidents Yes, enough to stop me following the Highway Code No, therefore I am confident the vaccine will protect me from serious illness but not enough to stop me following the guidelines for social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing…..
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jul 16, 2021 9:33:13 GMT
Friend did AZ trials last year. Had a booster trial yesterday. He said it was aimed at Delta variant to get that percentage higher.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 21:13:18 GMT
The coverage in The Guardian today. Whew.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 21:21:41 GMT
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 16, 2021 22:26:30 GMT
The coverage in The Guardian today. Whew.
I'm shocked, really. Nobody could possibly have seen this coming.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jul 16, 2021 23:46:20 GMT
Could it be the only way of this crisis is by herd immunity, so 60-70% of the population to catch this virus? Vaccines is part of that to stop people getting very ill, but vaccinated you can still catch it, and for people to spread the virus, especially the young to get to that herd immunity point? Would there be a benefit from having herd immunity, before the virus can mutate again?
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Post by sph on Jul 17, 2021 2:36:50 GMT
Could it be the only way of this crisis is by herd immunity, so 60-70% of the population to catch this virus? Vaccines is part of that to stop people getting very ill, but vaccinated you can still catch it, and for people to spread the virus, especially the young to get to that herd immunity point? Would there be a benefit from having herd immunity, before the virus can mutate again? Well yes, I believe so. Of course we should all keep getting vaccinated, but there's not much else we can do.
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Post by The Matthew on Jul 17, 2021 4:44:48 GMT
Could it be the only way of this crisis is by herd immunity, so 60-70% of the population to catch this virus? Vaccines is part of that to stop people getting very ill, but vaccinated you can still catch it, and for people to spread the virus, especially the young to get to that herd immunity point? Would there be a benefit from having herd immunity, before the virus can mutate again? I would say a definite no.
This is not a disease like flu, where if you're young and healthy you can basically disregard it as an issue you won't have to face until you retire. This disease can kill you at any age and no matter how healthy you are. The vaccines have greatly reduced the chance of dying but that chance is still there, and if you do survive you could be left with severely impairing long-term health issues. Probabilities multiply. Take a small chance of something happening and give it a large number of opportunities to happen and it ends up being common. You have a 1 in 25 million chance of dying in a road accident per journey, but with 45 billion journeys made in the UK each year that becomes around 5 deaths each day. And with covid-19 it's not a matter of "I was one of the lucky ones so now I'm set for life". Each time you're exposed to it there's a chance you can catch it, and each time you catch it there's a chance you can die. You don't get to roll the dice once; you have to keep doing it. So we need to reduce the number of times you have to do that.
Our best defence against this disease is in controlling its spread. Assume (to make the calculations easy) that 10% of the people around you are carrying it, there's a 10% chance of catching it if you meet someone infected, and if you catch it there's a 1% chance of you dying, then each time you meet someone there's a 1 in 10,000 chance it'll be the meeting that kills you. But if only 0.01% of the people around you are infected — and that's the level we were at when we came out of lockdown — then each time you meet someone there's a 1 in 10,000,000 chance it'll kill you. Those are odds we can literally live with. At that level you might go your entire life without ever being exposed to the real virus. The whole point of the vaccination programme is to make that happen. (In reality it's not quite that simple because if you catch it and survive it acts as a temporary booster shot that improves your chances for a while, but the basic idea is correct. The point I'm making is that the vaccine offers far more protection by controlling spread than by individual resistance.) We didn't eradicate the threat of smallpox by making everyone immune to it; the vaccine was only 95% effective. We did it by increasing resistance enough that the disease struggled to spread, and the same is true of the many other killer diseases that most people never have to worry about. The reason we don't have to worry about measles isn't because we're untouchable as far as measles is concerned but because most people have never had a chance to catch it because they've never met someone carrying it. With enough people vaccinated we can stifle the spread of SARS-Cov-2 as well. We will probably never eradicate it completely but we can reduce it to a level where as far as most people are concerned it might as well have been eradicated. The problem right now is that not enough people have been vaccinated to have the required effect (we're currently at 52% fully vaccinated) and those that have been vaccinated are the less mobile members of society and so have the least effect on the disease spreading. As more younger people are vaccinated the situation should stabilise and then reverse, with case numbers falling.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jul 17, 2021 5:52:12 GMT
What's becoming quite clear is that very little changes on Monday, things might be changing in Law but businesses are basically expected to keep all existing rules in place and I imagine they all will in the main. It's certainly no "freedom day" and I'm afraid I've lost all hope of there ever being one. Guttingly it seems this is as good as it gets. I know, brilliant isn't it? That so many businesses are putting the safety of their staff and customers first despite what the Government say. We only have to wait until everybody has, or has been offered, both jabs, which is only a few weeks away. Well it can be seen as good if that's all it lasts for, what I was suggesting there is I don't think it will only last that long.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jul 17, 2021 5:54:20 GMT
There was some talking down of the AZ vaccine in the thread earlier, a new study takes a positive stance, all we know is that all vaccines provide protection which is borne out in the fatality figures being incomparable to current infection rates. www.thesun.co.uk/news/15605950/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-lifetime-protection/No vaccine is a 100% but if vaccinated unless you have an underlying condition your risk of being hospitalised is significantly reduced whichever vaccine you have. I consider vaccination in the same way as I consider seat belts and air bags in cars, will they save my life in most accidents Yes, enough to stop me following the Highway Code No, therefore I am confident the vaccine will protect me from serious illness but not enough to stop me following the guidelines for social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing….. Forever more?
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Post by poster J on Jul 17, 2021 9:48:49 GMT
There was some talking down of the AZ vaccine in the thread earlier, a new study takes a positive stance, all we know is that all vaccines provide protection which is borne out in the fatality figures being incomparable to current infection rates. www.thesun.co.uk/news/15605950/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-lifetime-protection/No vaccine is a 100% but if vaccinated unless you have an underlying condition your risk of being hospitalised is significantly reduced whichever vaccine you have. I consider vaccination in the same way as I consider seat belts and air bags in cars, will they save my life in most accidents Yes, enough to stop me following the Highway Code No, therefore I am confident the vaccine will protect me from serious illness but not enough to stop me following the guidelines for social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing….. Forever more? It isn't difficult to wash your hands and wear a mask in busy indoor public spaces that don't have controlled entry for just vaccinated people (like the Tube). Not all, just places that are crowded and where Covid certification cannot be used. If you have difficulty with the idea of having to do that long term then you need to take a good hard look at your own selfishness.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jul 17, 2021 14:14:38 GMT
I dont think constantly calling people selfish is going to help them comply. This type of name calling really needs to stop.
Making people wear masks for any time after the vaccination programme has reached all who will take it is clearly unjustfied.
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Post by Mark on Jul 17, 2021 14:33:20 GMT
I dont think constantly calling people selfish is going to help them comply. This type of name calling really needs to stop. Making people wear masks for any time after the vaccination programme has reached all who will take it is clearly unjustfied. Yeah, It doesn’t help. I can’t wear a mask for an extended period of time, so immediately I must be selfish because I don’t. There are many people with all kinds of reasons who can’t and don’t wear a mask.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 17, 2021 15:27:13 GMT
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jul 17, 2021 15:33:45 GMT
It has been reported he was in a face to face meeting with Johnson yesterday.
Both the PM and the Health Secretary could be self-isolating on ‘freedom day’
(Hate the term but in this instance it shows the idiocy of the phrase as we are all just a ping from house arrest)
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 17, 2021 15:39:28 GMT
It has been reported he was in a face to face meeting with Johnson yesterday. Both the PM and the Health Secretary could be self-isolating on ‘freedom day’ (Hate the term but in this instance it shows the idiocy of the phrase as we are all just a ping from house arrest) He is also double jabbed, yet expects that I and millions of others who have only had one just accept the easing of restrictions?
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Post by poster J on Jul 17, 2021 16:11:40 GMT
I dont think constantly calling people selfish is going to help them comply. This type of name calling really needs to stop. Making people wear masks for any time after the vaccination programme has reached all who will take it is clearly unjustfied. Yeah, It doesn’t help. I can’t wear a mask for an extended period of time, so immediately I must be selfish because I don’t. There are many people with all kinds of reasons who can’t and don’t wear a mask. Presumably you have validly obtained an exemption lanyard or some other way of saying you are exempt then. That's fine, you are exempt. But not all reasons for not wearing a mask are valid. I make no apology for calling anyone who can take those minimal protective measures but won't selfish, because they are. There is nothing inconvenient about hand washing, respecting others who may want to be distanced from you or wearing a mask for a short time in an area that is both indoors, crowded and not able to be subject to Covid pass requirements. Those are very, very limited circumstances so if you aren't exempt yet refuse to do so that infrequently then I do think you are showing complete disregard for others, and that is selfish. This virus is not over, and it won't be for a long time if people are that selfish.
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