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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 20:49:46 GMT
The challenge now for the Government, do they bluff it out knowing how they have been played, as in a good game of poker the next card will be a photo.
Do they risk all on a photo not being available?
Update: looks as if they are going for the bluff.
Even Laura Kuesenberg has been slow in quoting sources this evening.
I do,love the game of Politics, Cummings took on Parliamentary experts on Prorogation and now taking on the press, arrogance is a weakness we all know the humble are the most dangerous as in Starmer’s increasing ratings.
4½ years is an eternity in Politics, the reaction of the Tory grandees over the next few months will be interesting to watch.
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Post by daber on May 23, 2020 21:00:47 GMT
I am angry about this as this man has completely undermined the whole government strategy in one fell swoop. The consequences of this could be a disaster for the whole country if other people now feel 'why bother and lets do as we want'.
We have not seen our grand children for several weeks (although do use face time and I help my grandson with his maths three times a week and my wife reads to our grand daughter). Our youngest daughter who lives alone had the virus and was seriously ill. We stayed at home and did not visit her as we normally would have done or would have had her home with us. We were worried sick but thankfully she recovered. We did continuously check in with her via facetime. Fortunately she has a good group of friends who live local to her who also kept an eye on her and left meals at her front door. She is a nurse and volunteered to work nights in ICU and nursed very ill people who had the virus and unfortunately some did not recover. So, like many other people my family have obeyed the rules although at times it has pained us to do so.
I have e-mailed the Prime Minister's office tonight to explain this and how I feel about this man's actions. I have made it clear that Mr Cummings should resign and, if not, should be dismissed. We wait to see what happens now.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 22:04:35 GMT
This is why we need the great artists.
'All orders were now issued through Squealer or one of the other pigs. Napoleon himself was not seen in public as often as once in a fortnight.'
George Orwell, Animal Farm
I know I have been maybe, OK too Political of late, it is only through the arts the truth is revealed and why we love Theatre as it is the only true mirror to the society and the human condition in the world we live in and deserve to live in.
Politics and Art, without one we do not get the other.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 6:24:38 GMT
Tories have asked us to sacrifice before (remember “we’re in this together”?) so they are used to asking us and not delivering themselves however with Austerity that happened over many migrant blaming years, lockdown is still here today. I know they they assume we are all stupid but we are not THAT goddam stupid!!!
Like with all job there is a probation period that if u show evidence u are spectacularly crap at your job you can be let go. Well it’s been 6 months, time to tell them this isn’t working out for us
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 24, 2020 8:13:41 GMT
This is why we need the great artists. 'All orders were now issued through Squealer or one of the other pigs. Napoleon himself was not seen in public as often as once in a fortnight.' George Orwell, Animal Farm Second mention of Animal Farm this page, seems it's becoming a government manual
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 24, 2020 8:14:45 GMT
I know I have been maybe, OK too Political of late, it is only through the arts the truth is revealed and why we love Theatre as it is the only true mirror to the society and the human condition in the world we live in and deserve to live in. Not political enough fella, not political enough
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Post by talkingheads on May 24, 2020 9:35:07 GMT
I mean this is what the ACTUAL Attorney General tweeted. Apparently all of us who are sticking to the rules, staying home and protecting our kids are bad parents, who knew?
What worries me is that any interrogation of facts is being seen as political point scoring as is any criticism of the Government. Reminds me of a certain political party in the 1930s...
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 24, 2020 11:29:24 GMT
If he publicly apologised, said he had done it with the best intentions but now sees that an alternative solution should have been chosen he could probably get away with it. Just show some contrition. The problem is that he’s such an arrogant, cocky piece of work that he won’t do that and instead seems to enjoy deliberately winding up the press. What an unlikeable character he is.
I bet Priti Patel is delighted though, spotlight very much off her after that policy announcement on Friday.
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Post by The Matthew on May 24, 2020 11:52:32 GMT
Yes, it is very much about the attitude. If he'd explained that the point of the "stay at home" guidance was to reduce the spread of disease and he'd taken what steps he reasonably could to ensure that his journey didn't increase risk (and if he'd explained it right at the start so it didn't look like a calculated damage-limitation exercise provided by a PR department) then it would probably have been OK. As it is he's sending a message of "Who do you think you are, acting as if I should have to explain myself to zeroes like you?"
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Post by londonpostie on May 24, 2020 13:19:32 GMT
Well, if people are turning to make it about personality rather than politics I think the story everyone is missing is Cummings - imo - presents with very, very clear symptoms of neurodiversity. He is unable to operate, to function, in hierarchies, quite literally.
Most of will have met people who appear cold or arrogant or unemotional or just plain harsh - in old money they might have been called 'the awkward squad' or contrary for te sake of it', etc - and Cummings demonstrates classic symptoms.
He can no more change his personality than, say, his sexual preference. In fact, it looks as if he has never been assessed and is probably completely unaware - tools to help such people are still in their infancy, 5 years since giving half this stuff names. Atm, we understand as much about this as Victorian surgeons understood about heart surgery.
Cummigs is a classic example of unassessed neurodiversity and like most of the rest of us is clueless why he 'comes across' as he does. He literally has no other way of being.
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Post by theatremadness on May 24, 2020 13:21:26 GMT
I mean it's all very well apologising and trying to explain the initial trip to Durham, but how would that have helped the other 2 alleged occasions which he apparently broke lockdown?
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Post by poster J on May 24, 2020 14:06:55 GMT
I mean it's all very well apologising and trying to explain the initial trip to Durham, but how would that have helped the other 2 alleged occasions which he apparently broke lockdown? If they're true, then he is even more of a hypocrite. His personality type is irrelevant to the consequences he should face but won't because his boss cares only about his own comfort too (if he hadn't been quite so ill I expect the press would have given him a harder time about travelling to Chequers after he got out of hospital as technically that was also a breach given his main home is Downing St). Regardless of whether those additional stories are true or not, is he really expecting us to believe 3 people drove 250+ miles without one of them needing to stop for a bathroom break, putting anyone else at the service station at risk? His wife had symptoms when they travelled, that alone is a breach of the rules as they stand now and stood then.
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Post by theatremadness on May 24, 2020 14:28:42 GMT
Agreed totally poster JAnother handy twitter thread I found, a timeline of events based on the facts given to us, that don't even slightly corroborate with whatever spin No10 are trying to push
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Post by londonpostie on May 24, 2020 14:34:26 GMT
It's not 'personality type' it's physical differences in the brain, as IDd with MRI.
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Post by poster J on May 24, 2020 14:39:53 GMT
It's not 'personality type' it's physical differences in the brain, as IDd with MRI. Apologies, my misunderstanding, though it doesn't change my view that it shouldn't make a difference to the consequences he should face.
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Post by basdfg on May 24, 2020 15:02:59 GMT
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 15:15:37 GMT
Well, if people are turning to make it about personality rather than politics I think the story everyone is missing is Cummings - imo - presents with very, very clear symptoms of neurodiversity. He is unable to operate, to function, in hierarchies, quite literally. Most of will have met people who appear cold or arrogant or unemotional or just plain harsh - in old money they might have been called 'the awkward squad' or contrary for te sake of it', etc - and Cummings demonstrates classic symptoms. He can no more change his personality than, say, his sexual preference. In fact, it looks as if he has never been assessed and is probably completely unaware - tools to help such people are still in their infancy, 5 years since giving half this stuff names. Atm, we understand as much about this as Victorian surgeons understood about heart surgery. Cummigs is a classic example of unassessed neurodiversity and like most of the rest of us is clueless why he 'comes across' as he does. He literally has no other way of being. People with faulty brains should not be in positions of power 'advising' Prime Ministers of countries whose decisions affect millions of people on a daily basis.
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Post by talkingheads on May 24, 2020 15:28:23 GMT
Today's briefing will go down in history. It's already the case that whatever Johnson's decision, the Government is fundamentally weakened and all trust eroded.
But if he isn't sacked? I have no idea of the both social and political chaos that will ensue but it will be huge.
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Post by nick on May 24, 2020 15:29:16 GMT
Well, if people are turning to make it about personality rather than politics I think the story everyone is missing is Cummings - imo - presents with very, very clear symptoms of neurodiversity. He is unable to operate, to function, in hierarchies, quite literally. Most of will have met people who appear cold or arrogant or unemotional or just plain harsh - in old money they might have been called 'the awkward squad' or contrary for te sake of it', etc - and Cummings demonstrates classic symptoms. He can no more change his personality than, say, his sexual preference. In fact, it looks as if he has never been assessed and is probably completely unaware - tools to help such people are still in their infancy, 5 years since giving half this stuff names. Atm, we understand as much about this as Victorian surgeons understood about heart surgery. Cummigs is a classic example of unassessed neurodiversity and like most of the rest of us is clueless why he 'comes across' as he does. He literally has no other way of being. People with faulty brains should not be in positions of power 'advising' Prime Ministers of countries whose decisions affect millions of people on a daily basis. Woa. Be careful. People who's brains work differently do not have faulty brains. I have no love for Cummings but my son and wife are both on the autistic spectrum and I resent the word faulty a great deal. I wanted to report your post as offensive but thought I should give you the right of reply first.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 15:37:09 GMT
People with faulty brains should not be in positions of power 'advising' Prime Ministers of countries whose decisions affect millions of people on a daily basis. Woa. Be careful. People who's brains work differently do not have faulty brains. I have no love for Cummings but my son and wife are both on the autistic spectrum and I resent the word faulty a great deal. I wanted to report your post as offensive but thought I should give you the right of reply first. The man is a psychopath, clearly a very different thing to every other kind of 'brain' disorder.
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Post by The Matthew on May 24, 2020 15:51:55 GMT
I love how the Internet allows diagnosis of any mental illness without the need to meet the patient, or even be a doctor.
Perhaps he's a psychopath. Perhaps he has some other mental illness. Perhaps he's just a bellend. It doesn't really matter. Whatever he is, that's an explanation. It's not an excuse.
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Post by nick on May 24, 2020 16:07:25 GMT
Woa. Be careful. People who's brains work differently do not have faulty brains. I have no love for Cummings but my son and wife are both on the autistic spectrum and I resent the word faulty a great deal. I wanted to report your post as offensive but thought I should give you the right of reply first. The man is a psychopath, clearly a very different thing to every other kind of 'brain' disorder. Again. Not necessarily a 'disorder'. Please watch your words. People with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society. The challenge is often the intolerance and bigotry of society not the 'fault' of their brains. And as The Matthew says - who are you to diagnose?
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Post by talkingheads on May 24, 2020 16:14:03 GMT
So there we are then. Lockdown is over. He's chosen to back Cummimgs over 66 million people of this country. Absolutely apoplectic would be an understatement.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 16:20:39 GMT
The man is a psychopath, clearly a very different thing to every other kind of 'brain' disorder. Again. Not necessarily a 'disorder'. Please watch your words. People with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society. The challenge is often the intolerance and bigotry of society not the 'fault' of their brains. And as The Matthew says - who are you to diagnose? I am sorry that you took my words, attached your own meaning to them and got offended, but that was not my intention and has nothing to do with what I wrote. I did not mention autism so why would you even make the leap? I can not control YOUR reaction to my words, that is up to you to do. Yes 'people with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society', but not ALL mental disorders deserve our empathy. Some people are completely aware of their disorders and use them gleefully to their own advantage to destroy people for sh*ts and giggles. Do I have empathy for these people because of their condition, yes I do, I can't even imagine having to live life the way they do. But that empathy does not extend to their actions and the flagrant disregard they have for people who share their space. I 'diagnose' based on people's actions because I am very aware of the symptoms of said disorder. The fact that someone doesn't want it to be true and live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance because they cast a vote to put that person into a position of power, is their problem not mine.
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Post by The Matthew on May 24, 2020 16:26:11 GMT
I doubt there will be many who look at the way Cummings is being vilified by pretty much everyone and take away from it the message that it's OK to do the same.
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Post by Mark on May 24, 2020 16:30:55 GMT
What a disaster. Lockdown might as well be over. Peoples livelihoods in shatters and a senior government adviser not held to account.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 24, 2020 16:33:51 GMT
We seem to have gone off on a tangent.
The only ones with a mental disorder are the ones who believed and trusted a Governments duty Is to protect us from harm.
Anyone who lost a loved one they did not visit as they believed in the lockdown and its aim to protect us from their position are being treated as fools.
A dark day in U.K. Politics, this cannot and will not be the end, the voices of the dead must and will become tumultuous.
Addendum: We have now moved on from common sense to instinct as the core of our containment strategy. My instinct says that I am unlikely to die from Coronavirus so I should just say sod you to the ones who could so I can get my life back, my morals and values would never countenance this and hope it is true for the majority.
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Post by intoanewlife on May 24, 2020 16:40:54 GMT
The only ones with a mental disorder are the ones who believed and trusted a Governments duty Is to protect us from harm. I don't agree with this. Good people have been brainwashed into a certain mindset by a bunch of truly horrible people. Once there they can be manipulated very easily. People who are brainwashed have no idea they are brainwashed, that is what is so insidious about the process.
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Post by sf on May 24, 2020 16:56:03 GMT
A car crash, and deeply insulting to the millions of people across the country who have bent over backwards to live their lives within the rules, often at considerable difficulty. I know people who haven't been able to attend funerals, people who haven't been able to see seriously ill relatives since all of this began, people who haven't been able to visit dying parents in hospital, people who have been stuck in their homes with no respite looking after a partner who needs round-the-clock care - and not only does Cummings trample all over the rules, but the entirely predictable and entirely justifiable public outcry prompts the Prime Minister to appear on television to condescendingly inform us all that Cummings acted responsibly when he broke the rules the rest of us have been doing our best to follow.
Every time I think Johnson can't sink any lower, he finds a way to prove me wrong.
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Post by nick on May 24, 2020 17:00:23 GMT
Again. Not necessarily a 'disorder'. Please watch your words. People with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society. The challenge is often the intolerance and bigotry of society not the 'fault' of their brains. And as The Matthew says - who are you to diagnose? I am sorry that you took my words, attached your own meaning to them and got offended, but that was not my intention and has nothing to do with what I wrote. I did not mention autism so why would you even make the leap? I can not control YOUR reaction to my words, that is up to you to do. Yes 'people with mental challenges are so discriminated against in our society', but not ALL mental disorders deserve our empathy. Some people are completely aware of their disorders and use them gleefully to their own advantage to destroy people for sh*ts and giggles. Do I have empathy for these people because of their condition, yes I do, I can't even imagine having to live life the way they do. But that empathy does not extend to their actions and the flagrant disregard they have for people who share their space. I 'diagnose' based on people's actions because I am very aware of the symptoms of said disorder. The fact that someone doesn't want it to be true and live in a constant state of cognitive dissonance because they cast a vote to put that person into a position of power, is their problem not mine. You need to read LondonPosties post that you quoted. His description was very good at describing neurodiversity - that’s not a disorder it’s diversity. You then use that to talk about broken minds. For the record I am a socialist and have never voted Tory in my life. And, like everyone else, did not vote for Cummings. However he has managed to be very successful and, I believe, part of his success is to be able to think differently that “the herd”. I believe that neurodiversity is a hugely beneficial thing to society even if I don’t agree with a particular neurodiverse person. I abhor intolerance. There is absolutely no reason why a neurodiverse person shouldn’t advise or even run a country. I suspect a large proportion of leaders are in fact neurodiverse. I also agree that if they mess up then they should go. Cummings should resign. However it’s not because he has a broken mind but because he f€$%~d up.
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