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Post by Jan on May 23, 2020 16:45:10 GMT
As I have children I think I would have done the same as him in the specific circumstances. You mean trapping your children in a car for five hours with two infected parents, presumably infecting many more along the way, to deliver them to your vulnerable parents knowing that the children could give them the virus, and spreading it amongst the community? No, I wouldn't deliver them to my vulnerable parents, neither did he. If he "infected many more along the way" by stopping. I'd agree with you, but it isn't clear he did. Maybe we'll find out.
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Post by Jan on May 23, 2020 16:47:10 GMT
In the specific circumstances of having family and friends in London who could have helped look after the children if it had been needed. If it was me I'd choose the *best* people to look after my four-year-old, not the *closest* people. And not my local authority either, it goes without saying.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 16:48:45 GMT
God, he must really hate his wife’s sister.
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 23, 2020 16:50:34 GMT
The papers have had this story for weeks.
Why wait until today?
That is something they have yet to address.
And the PM is not on holiday. Parliament is in recess. As is normal.
When did so many people lose their ability to think?
This is all bad enough without the media and online world exploding into anger at things that really don't matter in the grand scheme of things
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Post by vdcni on May 23, 2020 16:54:17 GMT
The closest people in London included his wives siblings.
I obviously missed that part of the child care manual that says trapping your child in a car for hours with someone with a highly infectious disease is better than organising help closer to home if you needed it and there is no evidence that they actually did.
This implication that the many people who struggled to cope at home in this situation and who didn't break the rules actually don't care at all about their children makes the whole defence even worse. Don't you have something better to do than repeat every government line.
They clearly knew they had done wrong at the time hence why his wife lied that they had been locked down in London when she wrote that article about their experience.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 16:56:19 GMT
Believe they were waiting for police confirmation as the report by a neighbour could be easily dismissed, the story in the Spectator was most probably written in defence of a potential sighting.
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Post by Jan on May 23, 2020 17:02:58 GMT
God, he must really hate his wife’s sister. You don't have to hate someone to think someone else would be better at looking after a four-year-old - distance isn't the criteria you'd use.
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Post by Jan on May 23, 2020 17:07:17 GMT
Don't you have something better to do than repeat every government line. I'm just saying, as a parent, I would have done the same. You're saying you wouldn't. Nothing to do with the government line. Just by the way I was also not bothered at all about Stephen Kinnock either.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 17:14:25 GMT
When caring for your child and not wanting them to get ill which would be the best way forward
Isolating in a large home whilst anyone with Covid-19 were kept apart in a separate part of the house knowing there were friends and family nearby if things deteriorated.
Driving in a confined car for 4-5hrs
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Post by adolphus on May 23, 2020 17:14:32 GMT
If nothing else, Cummings behaviour will make it easier for people to justify their own breaches of lockdown rules. I imagine the police will have this flung back in their faces a lot as they try to monitor social distancing this weekend and going forward. Johnson and the Cabinet members who've tweeted their support are actually undermining any future guidelines they expect the public to act on.
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Post by vdcni on May 23, 2020 17:24:59 GMT
Exactly.
The government's response has made this worse and increased the anger.
Rather than say he shouldn't have broken guidelines but we do not think he should resign and tried to hold the line there they've actively undermined the entire lockdown policy.
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Post by londonpostie on May 23, 2020 17:34:05 GMT
I'm glad more people are understanding the Etonian-led contempt for the Servant Class but I do see this a little differently. I suspect Cummings decision was rooted in entitlement that comes from a second home respite, albeit in the grounds of his family home. This feels like a decision any parent with serious wealth would choose, in fact Johnson's own father made a bolt for Somerset as soon as the doctors announced Johnson would come out of ICU. This is how wealth and privilege works, all the time. The general public just doesn't see it.
Fwiw, I was suspicious when Endgame finished a little prematurely, knowing both the leads lived in New York and the restrictions were anticipated soon. Struck me, Daniel Radcliffe had made more than enough from Potter to hire a private jet and make a last-minute bolt for it (and throw Alan Cumming in the back). This is how it works.
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Post by vdcni on May 23, 2020 17:45:27 GMT
I mean that's obvious isn't it. That's why people are angry, he clearly didn't need to go all that way but they wanted to and they thought they were above the rules.
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Post by londonpostie on May 23, 2020 17:52:19 GMT
They believe they are. Sincerely believe the rules are for the Servant class. It's a reminder how rigged the game is.
For example, we have entire sections of law - passed in Parliament - that exclude what is clearly and obviously white-collar financial crime.
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Post by fluxcapacitor on May 23, 2020 17:55:23 GMT
If nothing else, Cummings behaviour will make it easier for people to justify their own breaches of lockdown rules. I imagine the police will have this flung back in their faces a lot as they try to monitor social distancing this weekend and going forward. Johnson and the Cabinet members who've tweeted their support are actually undermining any future guidelines they expect the public to act on. This is my biggest issue with it. Forget the minutiae of where he was, why, who with and for how long - the back peddling to try and justify it from government officials, coupled with them now so flippantly saying things are "up for interpretation" has made it very difficult to police, and this bank holiday weekend is going to see people really pushing their luck... and there's nothing that the government can say without coming across like hypocrites. It's all open to interpretation.
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Post by theatremadness on May 23, 2020 18:03:52 GMT
Staunch Tory supporters baffle me. Are they seriously so brainwashed that they believe this government is doing a good job? Or are they too stubborn to admit what a disaster this has been from start to finish so are just keeping up appearances? How far does this government have to go before even their most loyal supporters can't defend them anymore? I feel like we currently live in a totalitarian state. The government does whatever they want whenever they want and there are precisely 0% consequences every single time. And we just have to accept it and move on.
Obviously a myriad of tweets on the subject but this struck a chord
Followed by Boris' own words, maybe? And don't come back with “well he never left his child with relatives”. So WHY the 250 mile trip?!?!
And so this was a lie?? On top of accusing the Durham Police...
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Post by londonpostie on May 23, 2020 18:10:38 GMT
Johnson isn't in office as a conventional PM, he's there for one job only. The whole game is Brexit. Literally a single issue Parliament.
In a sense it doesn't matter if Cummings goes, he's the only person who can deliver and so he'd do exactly the same from off stage, it's just easier if he can wear a lanyard and waltz around.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 23, 2020 18:12:49 GMT
Johnson isn't in office as a conventional PM, he's there for one job only. The whole game is Brexit. Literally a single issue Parliament.
In a sense it doesn't matter if Cummings goes, he's the only person who can deliver and so he'd do exactly the same from off stage.
He isn't Oops sorry, you were saying he thinks he is?
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 23, 2020 18:14:47 GMT
Obviously a myriad of tweets on the subject but this struck a chord Followed by Boris' own words, maybe? And don't come back with “well he never left his child with relatives”. So WHY the 250 mile trip?!?! And so this was a lie?? On top of accusing the Durham Police... Ooh that is good
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Post by theatremadness on May 23, 2020 18:19:18 GMT
These were the supposed official rules. Not followed by Dominic Cummings yet seemingly the goalposts were changed for him today.
A timeline which may also be helpful. Sorry that it's a pic from the DM but no link, at least. They were spotted on April 5th, March 30th-April 6th was the period that Mary Wakefield wrote about in the Spectator, April 25th. Very much seems to imply they were in London. If you're documenting it, why not talk about moving to Durham?
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 18:22:47 GMT
londonpostie that is the irony. Could have got rid of him and quietly and let him continue to influence in the background as an executive of one of those ghost companies that he set up to advise the Government. I suppose not being able to Lord it over the mandarins in the carpeted corridors of Whitehall was too much for him to lose. Even the Spectator has a piece about him needing to go, we now have an undermining of the Covid-19 containment strategy, the story all his enemies have been praying for and the wrath of those who did the right thing whilst their loved ones suffered alone as his role becomes even more untenable.
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Post by londonpostie on May 23, 2020 18:30:04 GMT
He def has the Remain/Peoples Vote Battalions up against him, that's for sure.
However, the Gov is sitting on 4 1/2 years and a decent old majority where it matters .. will the moral indignation last the Bank Holiday ...
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 18:55:40 GMT
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Post by theglenbucklaird on May 23, 2020 18:58:06 GMT
Cummings knows too much he is the architect. Definitely going nowhere. Don't be too sure - the newspapers rarely publish all they're got on the first day. Mirror just released day 2 of revelations... been seen out twice. Naughty boy
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Post by The Matthew on May 23, 2020 18:58:58 GMT
will the moral indignation last the Bank Holiday ... In most circumstances I'd say probably not, but right now there's not a great deal else going on in the news that can draw attention away from this situation. It's not as if people are going to have forgotten about the lockdown next week.
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Post by poster J on May 23, 2020 19:07:34 GMT
will the moral indignation last the Bank Holiday ... In most circumstances I'd say probably not, but right now there's not a great deal else going on in the news that can draw attention away from this situation. It's not as if people are going to have forgotten about the lockdown next week. Exactly. Whether you think he should have done it or not, it wasn't allowed at the time because he and his wife had symptoms, so he broke the rules, end of. Given how much the Government is imploring us all to obey the rules and stay at home, it was idiotic and hypocritical at best even if you don't think it was dangerous. People who haven't seen their families for nearly 3 months now will justifiably be angry and some will see no need to follow the rules anymore if Government advisers can't be bothered to. This is far more damaging than just his reputation.
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Post by poster J on May 23, 2020 19:10:52 GMT
I'm sorry, but why should it be one rule for you and one rule for everyone else? Children are not more important than any other people, no matter what their parents may think. There are plenty of others who need to be cared for as well, and emergency help that can be accessed in the area you live in if you have to. Family living elsewhere is no excuse. You plainly don't have children. I don't, but if I did and I had a close relative nearby like Cummings did I'd take them there rather than uprooting them to the other end of the country in a car with sick parents. What he did was the worse parenting option. Plus most families didn't have the luxury of being able to travel to far flung relatives for childcare or to care for elderly parents, they just had to cope, as we all have. He has no excuse whatsoever for breaking the rules, especially when you are the one making those rules.
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Post by theatremadness on May 23, 2020 19:11:10 GMT
This is delicious. Well, it would be if it weren't so downright stupid and indefensible.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 23, 2020 19:15:27 GMT
Well played Mirror/Observer.
Seed the sick child story which could be defended by the Government and then drop the ‘killer’ story he went to his Parents again two weeks later without any justification, the same offence that everyone else caught resigned.
There will be some irate Cabinet members who’s reputations are now seriously undermined.
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Post by londonpostie on May 23, 2020 20:34:58 GMT
It's wonderful; a faint with the jab and then the big haymaker.
What kills me is the "He added .."
Like one of those Colombo after thoughts.
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