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Post by kathryn on Jun 10, 2020 19:14:52 GMT
Let’s not throw baby out with the bath water - many of those positions will be in revenue-generating positions, and effectively pay for themselves.
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Post by Jon on Jun 10, 2020 19:22:08 GMT
Let’s not throw baby out with the bath water - many of those positions will be in revenue-generating positions, and effectively pay for themselves. And let's be honest, it's never going to happen.
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Post by maggiem on Jun 11, 2020 8:29:01 GMT
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jun 11, 2020 12:18:03 GMT
I think I want theatres to be a bit more open about their situations.
Social distancing is not going to go away. Theatres and producers must know by now if they can and will be putting shows on and opening theatres with those restrictions or if it's not viable. If it's not viable they should come out and say that and make clear they will only be re-opening when social distancing is no longer needed, rather than announcing random 1 or two months extensions to their closures when it's clear that nothing is going to change and it will keep just getting extended.
You have Julian Bird saying that no theatre can operate with the 2m rule or even the 1m rule yet you have theatres only announcing closures until August and you have theatres still having shows on sale for September onwards and theatre still encouraging people to buy tickets for Christmas shows and the like.
I see no reason why theatres cannot tell us here and now whether, when they they are allowed to open (in a covid safe way), they will be doing so and their shows will be going ahead, or not. They must know.
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Post by clair on Jun 11, 2020 12:25:44 GMT
It's not always down to the theatre though - if the contract with a show means that the promoter, producer or whoever is the one with the power to make the official announcement the theatre has no choice, if they do it without permission they can be sued for breach of contract. This is why so many concerts are still on sale even though we know they won't be happening, promoter hasn't given permission yet. I've had a few where the performer has said the shows are cancelled/being rescheduled and it has been weeks before official confirmation.
Those who are in a position to make the decision themselves should be as open as possible - trouble is I don't know which is which so don't feel I'm in a position to judge.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 11, 2020 12:30:19 GMT
I think I want theatres to be a bit more open about their situations. ..... I see no reason why theatres cannot tell us here and now whether, when they they are allowed to open (in a covid safe way), they will be doing so, or not. They must know. The cynic in me suggests it’s cash flow. Whilever the ticket money is in their bank and not back in our pockets they’re afloat. I suspect that’s the reason for the very controlled flow of refunds, extended delays in dealing with them, the ‘you won’t see it in your bank for 14 days” thing etc. Cash in the bank allows them to continue operating.
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Post by theatreian on Jun 11, 2020 13:59:58 GMT
A link to a petition asking for government help for the arts. Dear friends, I just signed the petition "Save theatres & entertainment industry all live music venues Cinemas & Pubs" and wanted to ask if you could add your name too. This campaign means a lot to me and the more support we can get behind it, the better chance we have of succeeding. You can read more and sign the petition here: you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-theatres-entertainment-industry?share=15b201e9-e9e6-4cdd-89ef-b1bd6dcfa9d9 Can you also take a moment to share the petition with others? It's really easy – all you need to do is forward this email or click these links: Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Thank you!
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jun 11, 2020 16:09:12 GMT
I see no reason why theatres cannot tell us here and now whether, when they they are allowed to open (in a covid safe way), they will be doing so and their shows will be going ahead, or not. They must know. I promise you, they don’t. I’m in a lot of Zooms with artistic directors, and there is still so much confusion, multiple contingency plans, and maybes/buts/ifs being discussed. I know what direction several theatres are leaning towards, but there’s just too much uncertainty to start making firm promises or public statements. And your very question assumes a hypothetical which probably will never exist. You can safely assume all theatres want to and are trying to re-open and get back to normal as soon as it’s safe, but what does “COVID safe” mean? It very possibly won’t be “safe” until a vaccine has been produced and widely disseminated, which could take a year or more. But theatres won’t survive that. The government has been worse than useless. Even if the government announces that theatres are allowed to re-open it likely won’t be safe to do so. And re-opening is a delicate balance of time/finances/potential seats. If theatres are allowed to re-open in September they might have enough money left in the coffers to start rehearsals for previously scheduled shows straight away. If they aren’t able to re-open till Jan they probably won’t. Best case scenario they might have to find and programme a much cheaper show. They might have to do paid digital shows for a bit, or certain theatres are discussing re-opening purely as a food and drink venue to get the income ball rolling and to fill in the gap until it’s safe to start performances again. No one can predict government advice or how it will affect re-opening. For example if the government reduces the 2m rule to 1m, that hugely affects seating plans and by extension potential number of tickets available. A lot of financial plans are being re-written right now to accommodate for a reduction from 2m to 1m. Though to be honest most theatres would not be able to operate with seats 1m apart because they’d lose so much money. Some theatres are exploring alternate options like potentially staging outdoor work during July-Sept then going dark again over winter. All sorts of “what if we...” being thrown about. So many options and so much confusion. I wish it was a case of “the minute Boris says the word, we’ll get the actors back into the rehearsal room” but it isn’t and it can’t be. Sorry to be bleak.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 12, 2020 7:52:22 GMT
Outside would be best, but tricky to organise for a lot of places without any outside space, since it’s likely to be in high demand this summer.
The type of thing that they did for one of the Shakespeare anniversaries - performers staged at particular points outside that the audience walked between - might work, with a timed ticketing system to control the numbers in each spot.
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Post by londonpostie on Jun 12, 2020 9:27:35 GMT
Do we know what the difference is between schools going back en mass and other sizeable gatherings? It can't be age becasue the children go home to adults.
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Post by richey on Jun 12, 2020 9:47:34 GMT
Chester's Storyhouse theatre now fighting to survive. Sad news /
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 10:29:16 GMT
Do we know what the difference is between schools going back en mass and other sizeable gatherings? It can't be age becasue the children go home to adults. Indeed. And the government haven't said social distancing is mandatory. They have just said when you can't, you should take extra measures. The aviation industry is attempting to re-start this month and they are not doing distancing. Even the middle seat which was at first suggested would be left empty is being sold! I think theatre is frightened that nobody will come. They could just plan to open in September without distancing. Keep the bars closed, open auditorium at same time as building and make masks mandatory. Hand gel everywhere. Quick temp scan on the door maybe (not massively evidence based but seems to reassure people). Shock horror, they might even be forced to make the loos bigger. They've struggled for decades. Buy these are unprecedented times. If a Nightingale hospital can go up in 5 minutes, am sure loo capacity can increase. I don't think the government would actually stop them opening. (Although don't get me wrong - I get that while this is vague, theatres would not want to take the risk). Then punters can vote with their feet and decide if they would be comfortable with what theatres are offering.
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Post by londonpostie on Jun 12, 2020 10:54:54 GMT
I also wonder about production budgets. Is it literally impossible to put on a 3 or 4 person productions with 30-40% of full audience capacity, and with appropriate staffing. You may or may not breakeven but you are at least mitigating. Or set overheads at 30% of pre-lockdown and put on what you can with who you can. At this point many will work just to work.
Just to offer an example, the Samuel Beckett triple-bill at Jermyn St recently comprised a cast of 3 and was hugely entertaining. That would have worked in a theatre twice the size and more. Not completely convinced things are as binary as everyone in the business is saying ..
I'm open to counter-views; are things completely catastrophic, or is there a little rigidity in the industry?
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Post by baguette on Jun 12, 2020 10:59:55 GMT
Do we know what the difference is between schools going back en mass and other sizeable gatherings? It can't be age becasue the children go home to adults. Indeed. And the government haven't said social distancing is mandatory. They have just said when you can't, you should take extra measures. The aviation industry is attempting to re-start this month and they are not doing distancing. Even the middle seat which was at first suggested would be left empty is being sold! I think theatre is frightened that nobody will come. They could just plan to open in September without distancing. Keep the bars closed, open auditorium at same time as building and make masks mandatory. Hand gel everywhere. Quick temp scan on the door maybe (not massively evidence based but seems to reassure people). Shock horror, they might even be forced to make the loos bigger. They've struggled for decades. Buy these are unprecedented times. If a Nightingale hospital can go up in 5 minutes, am sure loo capacity can increase. I don't think the government would actually stop them opening. (Although don't get me wrong - I get that while this is vague, theatres would not want to take the risk). Then punters can vote with their feet and decide if they would be comfortable with what theatres are offering. If Bluewater Shopping Centre can open on 15 June, the tubes, buses and trains are running without distancing, airlines can sell tickets, then theatres can open. The government has to get off the fence and say under what conditions it is deemed safe. The theatre industry can then decide if they want to open commercially, and punters can decide on their personal level of risk. Sorry to be the France bore but, but we have 2,000 cinemas opening on 22 June with a 50% capacity cap, and one seat empty either side of a booking group. People can decide if they want to go but it's a start. No temp checks. Mask wearing until you are in your seat to protect as people move through the theatre. I'd feel safer in a well-run theatre or cinema than on a Saturday at Bluewater tbh. There's a big speech on Sunday evening by President Macron which will say more getting France up and running and is likely to give more guideance about mass gatherings.
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Post by alece10 on Jun 12, 2020 11:24:51 GMT
Its a good point. For example, a tube journey from east to west or north to south can easily be 1 hour plus. There is no mandatory social distancing just recommended if you are able, and apart from the district and metropolitan lines, no air conditioning. But in practise its not feasible on the tube. Average each act of a play or musical is an hour and a bit, clean and air conditioned theatre that you know will have taken every possible health and safety step before letting people in. What's the difference? I know which I would prefer and be happier with.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 11:50:21 GMT
I'm open to counter-views; are things completely catastrophic, or is there a little rigidity in the industry? I do wonder if there is. It goes without saying that the government have not supported theatre as much as they should. It is wrong and it is sad. And I have seen some very well written articles about how problematic this lack of support is. I think we can all agree on that. However the most recent Sam Mendes article, whilst it was well written, was ultimately just asking for money. Fair enough, but at the same time at least come up with some proposals of how to re-open. The virus isn't going anywhere. I'd love nothing more than an effective, safe, cheap, mass produced vaccine to lift us out of this. But I don't think that's gonna come in time to save the theatre industry if things don't progress. My own opinion is that we must learn to live with the virus. In the most sensible but pragmatic way we can. Theatres are being crippled by a lack of income. Well. How about plan to open in September and sell some tickets! I'm being slightly flippant - yes of course it is incredibly complicated and very very difficult - I do get that. But in this country we don't seem to be seeing any ambition from anywhere to at least TRY things. There are producers who are wealthy enough to start experimenting. You know, pick one show and one theatre and see what can be done. Things are way ahead of us in Europe. Ask for government money yes. But come up with some plans on how we can do something. Whatever shape that may take.
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Post by zahidf on Jun 12, 2020 13:08:18 GMT
Judging by the demand for zoos and stuff, there is definitely a demand to be fulfilled IMO
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Post by The Matthew on Jun 12, 2020 13:27:13 GMT
But in this country we don't seem to be seeing any ambition from anywhere to at least TRY things. That's what's been bothering me. Far too many people are sitting back and expecting the government to tell them what to do, when they really ought to be using the relaxation of restrictions to come up with their own ideas because they understand their own situation far better than anyone else does. We need ingenuity, not people complaining about the government with one breath while expecting them to solve all their problems with the next. In the early days it was heartening to see how many people managed to transfer at least some of what they were doing to the Internet, but now all innovation seems to have dried up.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2020 13:56:04 GMT
But in this country we don't seem to be seeing any ambition from anywhere to at least TRY things. That's what's been bothering me. Far too many people are sitting back and expecting the government to tell them what to do, when they really ought to be using the relaxation of restrictions to come up with their own ideas because they understand their own situation far better than anyone else does. We need ingenuity, not people complaining about the government with one breath while expecting them to solve all their problems with the next. In the early days it was heartening to see how many people managed to transfer at least some of what they were doing to the Internet, but now all innovation seems to have dried up. Yeah, that's very much my thoughts currently. They really do need to be ingenious, and they are insanely creative people, so am sure they can. I just feel they need a bit of oomph to get started at the mo. It HAS been awful and a big shock - but it's time to stop mourning and start doing.
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Post by clair on Jun 12, 2020 14:26:38 GMT
I'm being the eternal optimist and hoping that maybe there are lots of things being discussed behind the scenes that are being kept quiet until theatres are legally allowed to open with the right precautions in place. Life is hard right now and I think I would prefer to be kept in the dark until something definite can be said, that will actually happen, rather than suggestions coming through that raise my hopes only to be dashed when they fail to materialise. Prepare for the worst and then everything that happens sooner is a bonus
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jun 12, 2020 14:33:48 GMT
There’s no reason why something based on Shakespeare in the Squares concept could not be performed over the summer especially if they produce Classic plays with small casts. They are all outside, never really busy and there is always plenty of space to spread out and could comply with the Beer Garden solution for pubs that is being mooted.
The NT could also find a more access restricted space to put on their River Stage, make them more theatrical, performed in a similarly spaced out environment and sell tickets alongside the refreshments.
As we move into the summer I have always enjoyed the small scale al-fresco productions I have seen over the years including the Lord Chamberlain’s Men’s Midsummer Nights Dream in a brief thunderstorm last year which added to the Atmosphere.
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Post by baguette on Jun 12, 2020 15:01:54 GMT
There’s no reason why something based on Shakespeare in the Squares concept could not be performed over the summer especially if they produce Classic plays with small casts. They are all outside, never really busy and there is always plenty of space to spread out and could comply with the Beer Garden solution for pubs that is being mooted. The NT could also find a more access restricted space to put on their River Stage, make them more theatrical, performed in a similarly spaced out environment and sell tickets alongside the refreshments. As we move into the summer I have always enjoyed the small scale al-fresco productions I have seen over the years including the Lord Chamberlain’s Men’s Midsummer Nights Dream in a brief thunderstorm last year which added to the Atmosphere. Italy is currently allowing 200 spectators for indoor seated events (concerts, plays) and 1,000 for outdoors (also seated). A summary of their guidelines: www.italia.it/es/informacion-util/linee-guida-per-la-riapertura-delle-attivita-economiche-e-produttive/cinema-e-spettacoli-dal-vivo.htmlSo I can't see why UK can't permit seated outdoor events against similar guidelines but they'll have to get a move on to catch the summer weather.
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Post by Jon on Jun 12, 2020 16:20:18 GMT
It's a shame the Open Air Theatre couldn't do a series of one-off events to test the waters like stand up comedy or a concert.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 12, 2020 16:26:02 GMT
I suspect part of the answer is that reserves of cash are so low that they just haven’t got the money they’d need to get the experiments up and running, so unless they can be profitable enough to tempt an investor it’s not feasible.
Which is why they need government investment - to be repaid later, in the Mendes ‘Angel’ Scheme, once productions are profitable again.
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Post by lynette on Jun 12, 2020 16:39:12 GMT
If Burbage could throw up a theatre overnight then I think we could probably manage it on the South Bank where they perform most summers anyway. Of course restrict the numbers seated but plenty of scope for using the balconies of the NT itself and charging accordingly. I think in Stratford the RSC is not allowed to use the outside space or erect a temporary seating area. Silly people, the council there. Always have been fighting the main source of income post cattle market. Covent Garden, plenty of space. Get the health and safety on board and we’re off for the summer. Other cities follow suit. I’m an idealist at heart and an optimist. Sue me.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jun 12, 2020 16:54:55 GMT
I realise this post will go down poorly, but I am taken aback by the posts here. What on earth have we done, as an industry, to create such distrust? So many statements based on negative and unfounded assumptions.
Please remember that "theatre" is not a monolith. Theatre is made up of many dozens of buildings, all run by human beings, who all have different opinions and approaches and different attitudes towards risk. Some artistic directors (for example who have lost parents to COVID, and who run theatres with an older audience demographic) are extremely cautious and are determined to put lives above profit. On the flipside I know one artistic director who has declared intention to open their building the second they are legally allowed to, and one AD who nearly re-opened illegally and had to be talked out of it. There is no consensus and there won't be any consensus. If I repeated some of the things I've heard in AD Zooms this week it would shock you and would silence all the "why are you sitting back waiting to be told what to do" critics instantly.
It honestly breaks my heart seeing posters talking about "lack of ambition" or "innovation has dried up" or "need to stop mourning and start doing". Do posters genuinely believe that artistic directors and other industry leaders and taskforce members are lazy and that we're all sitting on our arses with our hands stuck out passively waiting for the government to tell us what to do? Why the three taskforces then? I look at my colleagues and friends, and I can honestly say industry leader I know is working themselves to death using "innovation" and "ambition" and "creativity" to come up with the proposals and action plans you're castigating us for not doing. Do you really think there's a single suggestion that's been made here that theatres haven't been discussing for weeks?
Every single theatre that I know of has at least three detailed proposals (with financial breakdowns, risk assessments, etc. etc.) for re-opening, and probably half a dozen more creative or outlandish ideas for re-opening. Two of my closest friends have more or less halted all their own work and are now working more than 12 hours a day, seven days a week, writing the financial proposal and having meetings with the Treasury. I bet in a year when fans find out their favourite TV shows have been delayed those same friends will be called lazy. Not lazy, spending every waking minute trying to save the industry that birthed their careers. Important too to note that the financial proposal the group of individuals (representing one of the three taskforces set up in May to represent the theatre industry to the government) are preparing to submit to the Treasury is an investment, and not a bailout.
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Post by londonpostie on Jun 12, 2020 17:19:04 GMT
samuelwhiskers admirable job and a little of what I was hoping for in response. But do riddle me this; the Jermyn St Beckett triple bill with three players and five staff, inc. lighting personage and box office. Why can't that type of production go ahead now with social distancing?
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Post by jakobo on Jun 12, 2020 17:30:41 GMT
samuelwhiskers admirable job and a little of what I was hoping for in response. But do riddle me this; the Jermyn St Beckett triple bill with three players and five staff, inc. lighting personage and box office. Why can't that type of production go ahead now with social distancing? It can, but it wouldn't save the industry. Every West End theatre has tens of workers and vast majority of them will be made redundant by the end of July without the support from government. Theatre is literally on its knees at the moment and everyone who loves it should support it in every possible way.
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Post by clair on Jun 12, 2020 17:39:20 GMT
At the moment I don't think theatres are legally allowed to open are they - whether with a two hander or a cast of fifty? I know that where I work we do not have legal permission to open so have no options no matter how many people ask why aren't we open. Also the first one that is brave enough to open will be the only opportunity for others to see if there really is enough of an audience to make it financially viable. I would imagine most places will be wanting to cover costs and accepting that there will be nothing extra for a while but as long as they don't lose even more than they have already will open as soon as they are able to do so. Sadly this is a game of patience which needs to be approached with optimism, resignation and acceptance in equal measures right now.
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Post by kathryn on Jun 12, 2020 17:52:08 GMT
[quote author=" londonpostie" source="/post/351820/thread" timestamp= Why can't that type of production go ahead now with social distancing?[/quote] Because it’s still illegal. Currently it’s illegal for non-essential shops to open and to invite non-household members into your house. The ‘bubble’ rules are not in effect until next week, and that’s only for one single-adult household to mix with another household. It’d be illegal even to put people from separate households into a rehearsal space together.
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