|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 10:55:02 GMT
If people can sit side-by-side for four hours on a plane why can’t theatres re-open?Please explain as my pea-sized brain doesn’t compute it. Wearing a mask in the theatre would be fine by me. The main difference is that on a plane you don’t have a bunch of people projecting loudly or singing at you for three hours. It may not be an issue in the upper circle, but a singer who was infected but asymptomatic could potentially infect a fair proportion of the front stalls. Wearing a mask as an audience member mostly prevents you passing it on, rather than protecting you from becoming infected. Hence the discussion about whether performances could go ahead with a screen between the stage and the auditorium. On that basis, you’d think the solution then would be to just close the front 10 rows?
|
|
2,764 posts
|
Post by n1david on Jul 6, 2020 11:19:22 GMT
The main difference is that on a plane you don’t have a bunch of people projecting loudly or singing at you for three hours. It may not be an issue in the upper circle, but a singer who was infected but asymptomatic could potentially infect a fair proportion of the front stalls. Wearing a mask as an audience member mostly prevents you passing it on, rather than protecting you from becoming infected. Hence the discussion about whether performances could go ahead with a screen between the stage and the auditorium. On that basis, you’d think the solution then would be to just close the front 10 rows? I’ve certainly seen that presented as an idea, although they tend to be the pricier seats so would still involve a financial hit. More to the point, there is also the risk to fellow performers. You can imagine a big ensemble show having to shut down for several weeks to quarantine all the performers, which is a further financial hit after you’ve spent all the money to recast, re-rehearse and relaunch a show. Not to mention the impact on perceived public safety and future ticket sales when the papers make big headlines out of theatre owners and producers putting audiences at risk (even if they’re not really)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 11:23:09 GMT
Berlin, for example, gave individual freelancers (not just arts) 5000 Euros each in March and they had the money in their bank accounts in days. That was ONLY in the city-state of Berlin - everywhere else freelancers were screwed. Berlin has always been great at spending other people's money. The state governments living firmly in 20th century allocated 9000 Euro over a period of three months for freelancers who lost their income but the money was ONLY to be spend on rent for office rooms, staff and similar, NOT for personal expenses like rent and food. Despite the fact that so many freelancers these days work from home and have neither office nor staff, only a laptop or a music instrument or whatever. So millions missed out on the help and at the same time it became obvious that criminal clans had been able to sneak in there, to grab thousands of Euro of help unchecked, which has now disappeared. The "arts" that are supported here, are also as usual the pampered state-subsidized theatres that have been playing for an elitist target group with their Regietheater nonsense for decades. Privately funded theatres, including the big musical theatres, get NOTHING. So you can soon watch another deconstructed Shakespeare again or a socially distanced heady play with three nude performers musing over the state of the world, but if you want to see a musical with beautiful costumes, songs and distraction from the miseries of the real world, you can forget about that. So not all that wonderful here. I was talking about early help, which, as I said, Berlin gave. The federal government was much slower, that was my point. Also, the federal plan is to support freelancers via social security payments and housing support. As for the rest, it’s just a Daily Mail-esque diatribe against the sort of theatre that has given German theatre a great reputation globally. Theatre that I, and obviously others, get a great dal out of. Art before commerce can be a good thing as far as I’m concerned. Otherwise you are left with big flashy musicals running for years (Starlight Express for the last 32 years, seriously?) ’Spending other people’s money?’. Are you sure you aren’t English in disguise?
|
|
1,127 posts
|
Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 6, 2020 11:26:04 GMT
the the Elton John/James Graham musical doing a Zoom reading, etc. etc. etc. Erm, given that I’ve been rabidly following all the publicly-accessible news about Tammy Faye and I haven’t heard of an actual Zoom ‘reading’ of the full musical, please can you confirm for me if that was an industry-only event that the public wouldn’t be aware of? Or are you referring to James Graham talking about them using Zoom to work on some new songs for it? Because I wouldn’t call that a ‘reading’ so much as ‘collaborating remotely’. Oh sorry no, the reading wasn’t open to the public. I articulated myself badly. I just meant that the theatre industry is using Zoom in creative ways, and listed various public and private ways that Zoom has been used. In response to the “I’ve not heard of something so I assume it doesn’t exist” line of argument that’s popped up a few times lately. I’m sure there’s loads of creative alternatives being used in ways that I’m not aware of.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 11:31:20 GMT
Really? We have been crying out for a financial package, which not everyone was even confident we would get at all, and we've just had one announced that is actually higher than most people even predicted or hoped for and yet the only response by some is to start comparing it to Germany? Or start complaining about the potential allocations? Or make digs about it being leaked? Can people not just be pleased and grateful that we finally actually have something in place that will help? Honestly. Two thirds of people employed by theatre are freelancers, My point was about them, or do you really not care about them, as long as the salaried are okay and that we get ‘an announcement’. It’s been left up to Sam Mendes and others like Netflix to support them, if and how they can. £1000 grants available, applications opened half an hour ago.
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by viserys on Jul 6, 2020 11:46:31 GMT
I was talking about early help, which, as I said, Berlin gave. The federal government was much slower, that was my point. Also, the federal plan is to support freelancers via social security payments and housing support. As for the rest, it’s just a Daily Mail-esque diatribe against the sort of theatre that has given German theatre a great reputation globally. Theatre that I, and obviously others, get a great dal out of. Art before commerce can be a good thing as far as I’m concerned. Otherwise you are left with big flashy musicals running for years (Starlight Express for the last 32 years, seriously?) ’Spending other people’s money?’. Are you sure you aren’t English in disguise? Most of that is ill-informed unfortunately, but I can't just ignore it. It was up to every state (Bundesland) to provide help as they saw fit. Berlin (which is a small Bundesland) was the only one to actually provide help to freelancers as you mentioned without attaching a laundry list of conditions. I know this very well, because I was affected, too. And it wasn't clarified early on that the money providing support for freelancers was ONLY meant for office rents and such, but not for private rent and general costs of living and thus completely useless for a great deal of freelancers. At this time, many had already applied for support though and will have to pay it back, no matter how broke they are. Yes, people were expected to appy for social security instead, the godawful massively over-bureaucratic system called Hartz IV, which is comparable to your universal credit and which can take months to pay out if they don't decide you have too many savings you need to use up first. It definitely wasn't any kind of unbureaucratic swift help that would tide thosuands of freelancers over, who were stuck with zero income from one day to the next. My state at least finally relented to some extend and said that freelancers who had applied for the offered 9000 Euro for three months could use 2000 Euro of that for private rent and similar expenses. Other states did NOTHING. And yes, Berlin is fabulous at spending other people's money. I don't know if you are aware of the "Länderfinanzausgleich" which means that the better-off states have to pay money to the broke states for a better overall balance. Which is fair when states go through a crisis due to no fault of their own. My state NRW gave a lot of money in the 50s and 60s, when we were still rich on the coal and steel industries. We gave a lot to Bavaria at the time, which was poor and agricultural at the time. Now Bavaria is a rich powerhouse economy and gives to NRW which has become a poorhouse since coal and steel died. Recipients are supposed to spend the benefits wisely though and Berlin has only ever taken and thrown the money around for ludicrous stuff like the world-famous "new" airport, rebuilding the Prussian castle, huge memorials and other things. So the money they've thrown at the freelancers now comes from very empty coffers that are filled with money tax payers in richer states like Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg provide. At least this time it was for a better cause than sinking another few billions into the airport or other megalomaniac incompetent projects. As for my "Daily Mail-esque diatribe", clearly we don't see eye to eye in regard of the Regietheater nonsense in Germany that's not giving us a "great reputation" but has made us the laughing stock of culture worldwide and has caused the masses to abandon live theatre for decades. It's one thing if you see some celebrated heady Regietheater nonsense as a short run at the Barbican or similiar places amid a vast choice of other things, or if you can't visit the local theatres and have to travel across the borders just to enjoy something that's decently staged and is pretty to look at. It's one thing if you appreciate the nonsense as part of a small elitist circle and quite another if the general public hasn't given a toss for live theatre for decades, because they've been so thoroughly alienated from it. So spare me what is clearly a very skewed look from outside. As for Starlight Express - so what? It's on-going success only shows that it's still the only thing (apart from overpriced Lion King in Hamburg) where families can take kids to and go for simple enjoyment, just BECAUSE the Stadttheater don't provide it. Do I mock the UK for its panto season or its appetite for jukebox musicals and tribute shows? No, they're all part of live entertainment. And I'm out of this now, you are welcome to message me privately if you want some further explanations on a system you clearly only half understand, but I don't think anyone else here is very much interested in the situation of another country.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 11:59:59 GMT
Your first paragraph, I do not disagree with at all. My thoughts about it are aligned with yours regarding bureaucracy. Also, that Berlin (which is why I highlighted it) stands out. In the UK your second para would probably be about Scotland and the Barnett formula. People can probably measure where they stand on that. As for the theatre debate, it’s clear we are on completely opposite sides. No point in discussing something where I so fundamentally disagree. I need to tell my German friends (or those who have connections in German theatre) that they know nothing about it, though. How dare they misinform me.... EDIT: i just reread my earlier posts to see if I’d got something wrong. Apart from not giving masses of extra qualifying detail, I have no idea what you think is factually incorrect. Germany’s greater funding, Berlin’s swiftness compared yo elsewhere, federal help of a different type.
|
|
2,706 posts
|
Post by viserys on Jul 6, 2020 12:11:23 GMT
I need to tell my German friends (or those who have connections in German theatre) that they know nothing about it, though. How dare they misinform me.... Your German friends and you yourself are very probably part of that elitist bubble worshipping Regietheater nonsense and thinking it enjoys some worldwide wonderful reputation. Which is fine - within your bubble. I wouldn't disagree, I know that there are people who like that kind of thing in other countries as well. But please acknowledge that a little elitist circle, which is now once again being pampered by the government, has nothing whatsoever to do with the general unwashed masses (in which I include myself) who have long since turned their back on all of that and really don't see why we need to keep this system, which looks down with disdain on us for just wanting entertainment (your comment on Starlight Express being a point in case) with our taxes. At least in London or New York I can CHOOSE whether I want to see some deconstructed opera with modern-day costumes and ridiculous abstract stage sets or a "nice" staging with gorgeous sets and costumes. Having watched several streams by the Met Opera in the last months I have once more become painfully aware of how this kind of thing is being denied to German theatre-goers, no matter which town and opera house you'd turn to, because Regietheater is such an all-encompassing thing here. And THAT's my beef. Not that it exists, but that there's so little room given to anything else. I have donated a good hundred pounds to various charities in the UK over the last few months to try and support them a little, but the pampered high-minded German Stadttheater, which I'm already financing with my taxes against my will, hasn't seen and won't see a penny from me.
|
|
|
Post by baguette on Jul 6, 2020 12:15:19 GMT
If people can sit side-by-side for four hours on a plane why can’t theatres re-open?Please explain as my pea-sized brain doesn’t compute it. Wearing a mask in the theatre would be fine by me. The main difference is that on a plane you don’t have a bunch of people projecting loudly or singing at you for three hours. It may not be an issue in the upper circle, but a singer who was infected but asymptomatic could potentially infect a fair proportion of the front stalls. Wearing a mask as an audience member mostly prevents you passing it on, rather than protecting you from becoming infected. Hence the discussion about whether performances could go ahead with a screen between the stage and the auditorium. My local theatre's current booking conditions for their autumn programme 2020 (theatre, dance, musical performances): Front 3 rows closed off. No social distancing. Masks and hygience measures for FOH and audience. In the first week back in French cinemas (22-29 June), tickets sales were just under 1 million with a fairly dull set of releases and no blockbusters. Normal for June is 1.5 million. Cinemas and theatres currently have no capacity cap but must have one empty seat between a 'booking family' which can be up to 10 people. There's not much theatre here in summer so I haven't seen any stats, but that 1 million ticket sales tells a powerful story about people's appetite to go out and consume entertainment. I'm sincerely hoping that UK seated venues are permitted to open so that there is a route back to full audiences.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 12:25:16 GMT
What have freelance actors or technical staff been able to claim. Does it depend on what they earned up to now. The soap stars were put on some sort of "furloughed wage" their contracts probably mutually frozen but apart from voice work very few other actors would be working. Also a lot of the soap stars would be comfortably off, certainly not all as some are in their first big role. But a lot are long serving or established performers and at least have the profile to do some off shoots.
But your jobbing actor, technical staff are likely really struggling. I've helped friends put on gigs in B'ham and the soundman and a few soundwomen were on a set £90 per night. I don't know if they had other jobs, a few were involved in music but income has been gone for nearly 4 months now.
|
|
1,127 posts
|
Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 6, 2020 12:35:12 GMT
Yeah, it’s bad. A minority of freelancers I know were eligible for self employment support, but most of them applied for Universal Credit or found new jobs in supermarkets or as delivery drivers.
|
|
7,206 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by Jon on Jul 6, 2020 12:55:43 GMT
The main difference is that on a plane you don’t have a bunch of people projecting loudly or singing at you for three hours. It may not be an issue in the upper circle, but a singer who was infected but asymptomatic could potentially infect a fair proportion of the front stalls. Wearing a mask as an audience member mostly prevents you passing it on, rather than protecting you from becoming infected. Hence the discussion about whether performances could go ahead with a screen between the stage and the auditorium. My local theatre's current booking conditions for their autumn programme 2020 (theatre, dance, musical performances): Front 3 rows closed off. No social distancing. Masks and hygience measures for FOH and audience. In the first week back in French cinemas (22-29 June), tickets sales were just under 1 million with a fairly dull set of releases and no blockbusters. Normal for June is 1.5 million. Cinemas and theatres currently have no capacity cap but must have one empty seat between a 'booking family' which can be up to 10 people. There's not much theatre here in summer so I haven't seen any stats, but that 1 million ticket sales tells a powerful story about people's appetite to go out and consume entertainment. I'm sincerely hoping that UK seated venues are permitted to open so that there is a route back to full audiences. I hope with the indoor production pilots, they consider that sort of guidance but I wouldn't be surprised if they test out all sorts. I'm sure many ideas have been suggested or looked at.
|
|
|
Post by xanady on Jul 6, 2020 13:28:56 GMT
Cost of HS2 now conservatively projected as £106 Billion. Time saved from Birmingham to London estimated at about a mere 28 minutes. First trains won’t run until 2031
An idea...scrap it...save the countryside...give the money to the Arts.
|
|
1,972 posts
|
Post by sf on Jul 6, 2020 13:38:33 GMT
Cost of HS2 now conservatively projected as £106 Billion. Time saved from Birmingham to London estimated at about a mere 28 minutes. First trains won’t run until 2031 An idea...scrap it...save the countryside...give the money to the Arts.
I think it's probably being horribly mismanaged, but the point of HS2 isn't faster journey times, it's to get the limited-stop long-distance traffic off the conventional lines, which are running at capacity, to create more paths for local traffic and freight. And on those terms, it's very necessary.
|
|
5,163 posts
|
Post by TallPaul on Jul 6, 2020 13:38:59 GMT
World Snooker has contacted ticket holders for the postponed 2020 Championships to ask them to register their interest in attending the rescheduled tournament, which begins at the Crucible Theatre in a little under four weeks.
Nothing confirmed as yet, but if anyone can make it happen, it's Barry Hearn.
The numbers will obviously be substantially reduced from the usual 1,000 seat capacity, but it could act as a useful test event (and be a pub quiz question for years to come!).
|
|
7,206 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by Jon on Jul 6, 2020 13:46:23 GMT
I think it's probably being horribly mismanaged, but the point of HS2 isn't faster journey times, it's to get the limited-stop long-distance traffic off the conventional lines, which are running at capacity, to create more paths for local traffic and freight. And on those terms, it's very necessary.
Not to mention given how much has already been spent on it and work has already started, it'd be unwise to scrap it entirely. World Snooker has contacted ticket holders for the postponed 2020 Championships to ask them to register their interest in attending the rescheduled tournament, which begins at the Crucible Theatre in a little under four weeks. Nothing confirmed as yet, but if anyone can make it happen, it's Barry Hearn. The numbers will obviously be substantially reduced from the usual 1,000 seat capacity, but it could act as a useful test event (and be a pub quiz question for years to come!). I'm surprised the snooker isn't going behind closed doors. Spectators make very little different to snooker unlike other sports.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 14:06:23 GMT
There have been plenty of online concerts and a few theatre productions if you have looked for them. But all of that takes resources and equipment which many performers won't have lying around at home and are not going to be able to afford given they don't know when they are going to have steady work again. Don't be so quick to judge. Again the answer is be creative - write a Zoom play for Dench etc. Its not quick to judge, its wondering why theatre has been so slow to react. Sitting back and waiting for government intervention instead of being creative has shown the complete dearth of leadership at the top of the theatre sector. Things need to change going forward. There's loads and loads and loads of recorded, live-streamed, drive-in, etc etc etc stuff being done and planned. And I'm not watching any of it because if I look at a screen for longer than I'm already doing my eyeballs will melt. It's not theatre; theatre is live, that's the point of it. If govt won't let theatres open and put on performances it needs to support them until it will. Hopefully this funding will give them the dosh and the breathing room they need to find creative ways to put on live performances that fit with current (and hopefully rapidly evolving) regulations - open air, smaller spaced out audiences, static rehearsed readings that don't need the cast to have contact, etc. I am absolutely positive that there are brilliant, exciting plans already being formed that just needed money to make them possible. What they shouldn't spend this funding on, in my opinion, is kit and content for online anything, because that's not what theatre is. Let telly be telly, let YouTube be YouTube, let sodding Zoom meetings be sodding Zoom meetings - let's focus this on getting theatre back to being theatre.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 15:25:38 GMT
I think it's probably being horribly mismanaged, but the point of HS2 isn't faster journey times, it's to get the limited-stop long-distance traffic off the conventional lines, which are running at capacity, to create more paths for local traffic and freight. And on those terms, it's very necessary.
Not to mention given how much has already been spent on it and work has already started, it'd be unwise to scrap it entirely. World Snooker has contacted ticket holders for the postponed 2020 Championships to ask them to register their interest in attending the rescheduled tournament, which begins at the Crucible Theatre in a little under four weeks. Nothing confirmed as yet, but if anyone can make it happen, it's Barry Hearn. The numbers will obviously be substantially reduced from the usual 1,000 seat capacity, but it could act as a useful test event (and be a pub quiz question for years to come!). I'm surprised the snooker isn't going behind closed doors. Spectators make very little different to snooker unlike other sports. Snooker has done a couple of events behind closed doors. I'd have thought an outside sport would get spectators back first personally. But the issue there would be volumes travelling to and from events. The Crucible holds under 1K so if you go say 40% capacity max. That is only 400 spectators and not all stay to the end. Unlike 10k leaving a football ground and swamping public transport.
|
|
|
Post by xanady on Jul 6, 2020 15:37:21 GMT
Lot of freelancers on Twitter very worried about the money promised by the Chancellor as they feel that they won’t benefit...we have some of the best talent on the planet in this country and it would be very sad if they were lost to the industry.
|
|
2,413 posts
|
Post by theatreian on Jul 6, 2020 22:26:35 GMT
Had my first go at eating out at lunchtime for a while today. We were meeting a friend and supposed to be out for a walk. It rained so we changed our plans. The place we went to had made great efforts to be safe but was barely a third full and at reduced capacity due to less tables. At increased cost with extra staff and reduced capacity I wonder how many more eating places will survive. Pret have announced more closures due to less customers.Lets hope things get more back to normal for the hospitality industry soon. It's not easy though and with more working from home which is likely to continue places that relied on workers buying their lunch will struggle.
|
|
|
Post by marcellus on Jul 7, 2020 12:21:43 GMT
|
|
7,206 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by Jon on Jul 7, 2020 14:47:25 GMT
I wonder if we may studio audiences for TV shows return in some capacity in the Autumn. Something like Michael McIntyre's Big Show could be the test ground for theatres since that records at the London Palladium or if they didn't want to risk it, they could opt for a smaller show.
|
|
724 posts
|
Post by basdfg on Jul 7, 2020 15:51:31 GMT
I wonder if we may studio audiences for TV shows return in some capacity in the Autumn. Something like Michael McIntyre's Big Show could be the test ground for theatres since that records at the London Palladium or if they didn't want to risk it, they could opt for a smaller show. I am not sure if the BBC would approve one of their productions to be used as a high profile guinea pig for theatres through most audience based tv shows seem to be plaining for the possibilty of audiences partly returning in the autumn.
|
|
2,506 posts
|
Post by zahidf on Jul 7, 2020 21:14:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 8:49:47 GMT
God, it makes such a nice change for us to be held up as doing something right...!
|
|