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Post by HereForTheatre on Jul 5, 2020 7:47:33 GMT
To be honest I'm getting pretty annoyed with some stagey social media types. I want theatres to open as much as the next person, I want theatres to get money so they can survive as much as the next person, both of these things are clearly vital and it means an awful lot to me. However, what I do find annoying is the people who are clearly preferring to carry on moaning and completely just ignoring the fact that we know theatres will be told when they can open next week and also that it's pretty much certain a financial package will be announced next week. If you just went on some peoples comments on twitter and places you'd honestly think neither of those things were happening and we were still in complete limbo with no hope whatsoever. Look, pop off in this time next week we are in the same boat and i'll be joining you, but let's also be optimistic and happy when we get some good news and movement. I honestly think some people just like the being up in arms aspect of this, whether something is being done or not.
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Post by zahidf on Jul 5, 2020 8:49:16 GMT
To be honest I'm getting pretty annoyed with some stagey social media types. I want theatres to open as much as the next person, I want theatres to get money so they can survive as much as the next person, both of these things are clearly vital and it means an awful lot to me. However, what I do find annoying is the people who are clearly preferring to carry on moaning and completely just ignoring the fact that we know theatres will be told when they can open next week and also that it's pretty much certain a financial package will be announced next week. If you just went on some peoples comments on twitter and places you'd honestly think neither of those things were happening and we were still in complete limbo with no hope whatsoever. Look, pop off in this time next week we are in the same boat and i'll be joining you, but let's also be optimistic and happy when we get some good news and movement. I honestly think some people just like the being up in arms aspect of this, whether something is being done or not. We don't know for a fact that there will be a money package involved. Its fine to keep up the pressure in the media to make sure there is.
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Post by zahidf on Jul 5, 2020 8:51:07 GMT
This seems pretty pathetic.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 5, 2020 9:05:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 9:10:42 GMT
To be honest I'm getting pretty annoyed with some stagey social media types. I want theatres to open as much as the next person, I want theatres to get money so they can survive as much as the next person, both of these things are clearly vital and it means an awful lot to me. However, what I do find annoying is the people who are clearly preferring to carry on moaning and completely just ignoring the fact that we know theatres will be told when they can open next week and also that it's pretty much certain a financial package will be announced next week. If you just went on some peoples comments on twitter and places you'd honestly think neither of those things were happening and we were still in complete limbo with no hope whatsoever. Look, pop off in this time next week we are in the same boat and i'll be joining you, but let's also be optimistic and happy when we get some good news and movement. I honestly think some people just like the being up in arms aspect of this, whether something is being done or not. Amen, brother! Criticise the slow response, sure. And when we go back over all this, in months to come, let’s hear why theatre wasn’t (as we perceive it) prioritised. The answers may surprise us. But also look at why it took so long for any kind of coherent challenge to all that to come from the arts community itself. And why so many spent more time doing down the Tories than bigging up the arts.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 9:15:54 GMT
This seems pretty pathetic. If the ‘grants and loans’ cover ‘millions’, I’m not sure we can dismiss it as pathetic? And do my eyes deceive me, or does the line at the bottom of that article suggest Quentin Letts is doing something positive for theatre? *faints* ;-)
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 5, 2020 9:43:21 GMT
Oh come on, there’s clearly no logical, non-corrupt justification for the re-opening pubs (completely inessential and listed as the single highest risk activity and one which will certainly kill hundreds of people), give one single man who runs a pub chain an interest-free £48 million loan, while not lifting a single finger for the arts which involves far less risky activities and which almost everyone engages in or benefits from whether directly or indirectly.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 5, 2020 10:06:14 GMT
This could be a game changer for when theatres do reopen though!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 10:23:37 GMT
This could be a game changer for when theatres do reopen though! I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but I can't see that happening. That's around £20 billion, plus the huge admin cost to prevent abuse of the system. And it's not as if it would inject £20 billion into circulation in the economy because many people would use it in place of their own money that they can now save. A better idea would be to target specifically the people who have suffered the worst: most of all the people who were self-employed and have had to close down their business and who need a grant to get it back up and running again, but also people who were already low paid before March and have now lost their jobs.
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Post by talkingheads on Jul 5, 2020 10:26:37 GMT
This could be a game changer for when theatres do reopen though! I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but I can't see that happening. That's around £20 billion, plus the huge admin cost to prevent abuse of the system. And it's not as if it would inject £20 billion into circulation in the economy because many people would use it in place of their own money that they can now save. A better idea would be to target specifically the people who have suffered the worst: most of all the people who were self-employed and have had to close down their business and who need a grant to get it back up and running again, but also people who were already low paid before March and have now lost their jobs. I agree. It is infuriating that they are essentially considering free money to everybody EXCEPT those who actually work in the arts and need it now. It's like they're taunting them at this stage. And where will we spend all this money if there are no venues left in which to use them? No staff?
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Post by duncan on Jul 5, 2020 10:33:33 GMT
To be honest I'm getting pretty annoyed with some stagey social media types. I want theatres to open as much as the next person, I want theatres to get money so they can survive as much as the next person, both of these things are clearly vital and it means an awful lot to me. However, what I do find annoying is the people who are clearly preferring to carry on moaning and completely just ignoring the fact that we know theatres will be told when they can open next week and also that it's pretty much certain a financial package will be announced next week. If you just went on some peoples comments on twitter and places you'd honestly think neither of those things were happening and we were still in complete limbo with no hope whatsoever. Look, pop off in this time next week we are in the same boat and i'll be joining you, but let's also be optimistic and happy when we get some good news and movement. I honestly think some people just like the being up in arms aspect of this, whether something is being done or not. Amen, brother! Criticise the slow response, sure. And when we go back over all this, in months to come, let’s hear why theatre wasn’t (as we perceive it) prioritised. The answers may surprise us. But also look at why it took so long for any kind of coherent challenge to all that to come from the arts community itself. And why so many spent more time doing down the Tories than bigging up the arts. The big thing that has come out of this is, where the hell is the creativity? We've been in lockdown for almost 4 months and yet we've got, what, The Old Vic and Six attempting to put performances on via different methods. Where the hell is Theatre at this time? Why isn't it leading with different ways of putting on paying performances? Its a creative industry so get creative. Bizarrely 2020 has shown that most theatres view new performances and staging's via the prism of 1920 and they've been caught out with a funding model that hasn't evolved at all over the last century.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 10:52:53 GMT
Amen, brother! Criticise the slow response, sure. And when we go back over all this, in months to come, let’s hear why theatre wasn’t (as we perceive it) prioritised. The answers may surprise us. But also look at why it took so long for any kind of coherent challenge to all that to come from the arts community itself. And why so many spent more time doing down the Tories than bigging up the arts. The big thing that has come out of this is, where the hell is the creativity? We've been in lockdown for almost 4 months and yet we've got, what, The Old Vic and Six attempting to put performances on via different methods. Where the hell is Theatre at this time? Why isn't it leading with different ways of putting on paying performances? Its a creative industry so get creative. Bizarrely 2020 has shown that most theatres view new performances and staging's via the prism of 1920 and they've been caught out with a funding model that hasn't evolved at all over the last century. There have been plenty of online concerts and a few theatre productions if you have looked for them. But all of that takes resources and equipment which many performers won't have lying around at home and are not going to be able to afford given they don't know when they are going to have steady work again. Don't be so quick to judge.
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Post by HereForTheatre on Jul 5, 2020 10:53:58 GMT
This seems pretty pathetic. Well no figures are mentioned there so it seems a bit early to call it pathetic. Also what is wrong with loans and grants? Those things will still help save theatres and organisations. I'm going to wait and see what exactly is announced and how much is offered before making a judgement. Regrading the no theatre till next year thing, well I hardly think that is a surprise, most places have already begun to cancel their shows for later this year and Christmas anyway and at least a concrete announcement to that effect will mean that no money is being spent on shows that will not be going ahead, which is the case currently in many cases.
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Post by sf on Jul 5, 2020 11:13:00 GMT
If the ‘grants and loans’ cover ‘millions’, I’m not sure we can dismiss it as pathetic? That rather depends on whether what is offered is sufficient to prevent companies from going to the wall. And it has to be viewed, as well, in the context of an ongoing government spending programme which is pouring billions of pounds in to an exercise - Brexit - which will make us all poorer, which strips established rights from every single UK citizen, and which will make it more difficult for us to trade goods and services with our closest neighbours. I suspect that for THIS government, flushing billions down the toilet on an ideologially-driven suicide mission is going to be a higher priority than bailing out a sector which pumps billions into the economy, supports thousands and thousands of jobs, and attracts visitors from all over the world.
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Post by sf on Jul 5, 2020 11:17:24 GMT
But also look at why it took so long for any kind of coherent challenge to all that to come from the arts community itself. Did it? Sonia Friedman has been banging the drum for weeks. Sam Mendes published that article setting out strategies to support performance spaces a month ago. Artistic directors and other prominent figures have been talking about strategies to find ways forward ever since theatres were closed. The government has not been listening.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 5, 2020 11:32:39 GMT
Industry leaders and tens of thousands of ordinary people working in theatre have been speaking out, and putting forward very coherent, coordinated "challenges" (consistent talking points, detailed financial explanations, coordinated press and PR campaigns) since day one.
Few people outside of the industry are listening. The arts are not considered high priority, and there are also serious issues with who gets to have their voice heard. With a few exceptions like those named above, most people in theatre who are active in these campaigns do not have the 'pull' to draw mainstream media attention. Two of my close friends and colleagues are both industry leaders. Both have worked non-stop for months on the campaign to save theatre, have undergone training in policy-making and economics to be better educated when in discussion with the cabinet and the Treasury, are regularly attending meetings with the DCMS, and trying to coordinate things with the various major taskforces. One is a white man and the other is a black woman. Guess which one has been invited to go on all the major political and news TV shows and to write thinkpieces for broadsheets, and which one got a single article in an arts publication which they had to share with five other BIPOC artists? And that's the top end. People no one on this board have ever heard of have emerged as leaders of the arts community, but there's only so much you can do if no one is listening.
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Post by zahidf on Jul 5, 2020 11:35:19 GMT
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Post by Jon on Jul 5, 2020 12:17:54 GMT
I wonder if other shows or theatres will be willing to be part of pilot productions to work out how to make theatre safe aside from The Mousetrap and Sleepless? I wouldn't be surprised if the Palladium is used for a trial run should the tests be successful, if they don't want to trial a paid performance, a TV show recording like Michael McIntyre's Big Show might be an option.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 13:10:49 GMT
If the ‘grants and loans’ cover ‘millions’, I’m not sure we can dismiss it as pathetic? That rather depends on whether what is offered is sufficient to prevent companies from going to the wall. And it has to be viewed, as well, in the context of an ongoing government spending programme which is pouring billions of pounds in to an exercise - Brexit - which will make us all poorer, which strips established rights from every single UK citizen, and which will make it more difficult for us to trade goods and services with our closest neighbours. I suspect that for THIS government, flushing billions down the toilet on an ideologially-driven suicide mission is going to be a higher priority than bailing out a sector which pumps billions into the economy, supports thousands and thousands of jobs, and attracts visitors from all over the world. Not to get too far off-topic on a non-Brexit thread, but since you keep raising it: You may view it as a ‘suicide mission’, but the Tories were voted in with a very large majority to deliver Brexit. The fact it’s happening during a global pandemic is indeed unfortunate, but had people worked cross-party to deliver the result of a democratic vote months ago, when they should have, we might not be arguing this now, and we might be in a more settled political and financial situation to know what money was available to support different sectors. So, sorry, no - you can’t just blame the Tories for this one.
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Post by sf on Jul 5, 2020 13:21:04 GMT
Not to get too far off-topic on a non-Brexit thread, but since you keep raising it: You may view it as a ‘suicide mission’, but the Tories were voted in with a very large majority to deliver Brexit. Doesn't make it any more justifiable. The fact that a majority of people voted for it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It simply means a majority of people are gullible enough that they can be persuaded to vote against their best interests. So, sorry, no - you can’t just blame the Tories for this one. Why not? After a vote which asked a binary question with several ways forward possible after a vote to leave the EU, the Tories have consistently hewn to the stupidest, most damaging, most expensively wasteful way forward, and have also chosen, in the middle of a global pandemic, not to extend the transition period, so that this country's businesses will have to deal with a double economic hit. Of course the Tories can be blamed for it. Without Tory back-benchers making a fuss about something that, at the time, almost nobody else cared about, Cameron would not have promised a referendum. A Tory PM chose to pull us out of the single market and the customs union. Another Tory PM signed a deal which puts a border in the Irish Sea and then chose not to extend the transition period even though we don't have infrastructure in place to handle the checks that deal makes necessary. Who else should I blame? This mess originated with the Tories, and they've spent the last four years doing everything they can to make a bad situation worse. And in THIS context, when we're looking at how much money may be needed to stop our entire cultural sector sliding into insolvency before it becomes safe for them to reopen, I'm afraid it's sickening - at least, to anyone with a conscience - to see the government dragging their heels over pumping money into saving jobs and companies when they've been spending hand over fist on an exercise which will put people out of work. It's disgusting, and the fact that a majority of constituencies (though NOT a majority in percentage terms) voted for it doesn't make it any less so.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 13:25:50 GMT
But also look at why it took so long for any kind of coherent challenge to all that to come from the arts community itself. Did it? Sonia Friedman has been banging the drum for weeks. Sam Mendes published that article setting out strategies to support performance spaces a month ago. Artistic directors and other prominent figures have been talking about strategies to find ways forward ever since theatres were closed. The government has not been listening. I’ve seen a few high-profile people write stuff and say stuff, but I’m talking about a proper, cohesive, coherent campaign. So that when those upper-echelon people are in the news, I’m hearing something beyond retweets and ‘sod the Tories’ from people further down the pecking order (who, let’s face it, are doing most of the work). The latest wheeze, ‘post a picture of yourself in an arts job, with no description’ is a case in point. Yes, post a description! Please!! Talk about the power of your work and how it can affect audiences. Talk about how you aim to inspire the next generation. Talk about the opportunities you hope the future holds for diverse voices, performers and stories. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of meaningless photos.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 13:30:23 GMT
Industry leaders and tens of thousands of ordinary people working in theatre have been speaking out, and putting forward very coherent, coordinated "challenges" (consistent talking points, detailed financial explanations, coordinated press and PR campaigns) since day one. Few people outside of the industry are listening. The arts are not considered high priority, and there are also serious issues with who gets to have their voice heard. With a few exceptions like those named above, most people in theatre who are active in these campaigns do not have the 'pull' to draw mainstream media attention. Two of my close friends and colleagues are both industry leaders. Both have worked non-stop for months on the campaign to save theatre, have undergone training in policy-making and economics to be better educated when in discussion with the cabinet and the Treasury, are regularly attending meetings with the DCMS, and trying to coordinate things with the various major taskforces. One is a white man and the other is a black woman. Guess which one has been invited to go on all the major political and news TV shows and to write thinkpieces for broadsheets, and which one got a single article in an arts publication which they had to share with five other BIPOC artists? And that's the top end. People no one on this board have ever heard of have emerged as leaders of the arts community, but there's only so much you can do if no one is listening. Oh, I totally believe good work is going on behind the scenes - that’s why we’re hearing talk of an announcement next week. I was referring to the tedious repetitive tweets that seem to be posted merely to rile people up or encourage them to slide deeper into despondency. It honestly is pushing me closer towards quitting Twitter. And that’s a sad thing to have to say about the arts community.
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Post by sf on Jul 5, 2020 13:31:15 GMT
I’ve seen a few high-profile people write stuff and say stuff, but I’m talking about a proper, cohesive, coherent campaign. What do you think those articles by Sam Mendes and Sonia Friedman were about? What do you think they've been doing? It doesn't just stop at a couple of newspaper columns. The work IS happening. The media are not covering it. The fact that YOU haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jul 5, 2020 13:31:36 GMT
Did it? Sonia Friedman has been banging the drum for weeks. Sam Mendes published that article setting out strategies to support performance spaces a month ago. Artistic directors and other prominent figures have been talking about strategies to find ways forward ever since theatres were closed. The government has not been listening. I’ve seen a few high-profile people write stuff and say stuff, but I’m talking about a proper, cohesive, coherent campaign. So that when those upper-echelon people are in the news, I’m hearing something beyond retweets and ‘sod the Tories’ from people further down the pecking order (who, let’s face it, are doing most of the work). The latest wheeze, ‘post a picture of yourself in an arts job, with no description’ is a case in point. Yes, post a description! Please!! Talk about the power of your work and how it can affect audiences. Talk about how you aim to inspire the next generation. Talk about the opportunities you hope the future holds for diverse voices, performers and stories. Otherwise, it’s just a bunch of meaningless photos. People are doing all of those things. Just because you don’t know about them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. A better question is to ask why you haven’t seen media coverage of them, or why the coverage is slanted to portray the arts community as whinging about the Tories. Take your example of the latest viral hashtag (not sure why you describe people who have lost their jobs/careers and are scared for the future of their industry using Twitter to gain attention as a “wheeze”). Plenty of people have done exactly what you are asking for, but those kinds of posts/tweets/articles do not go viral in the way a photo challenge does. The intention of that particular photo challenge was to show how many thousands of ordinary people work in theatre, to try to combat the false belief that theatre is only for and by a tiny handful of the elite.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 13:45:10 GMT
Not to get too far off-topic on a non-Brexit thread, but since you keep raising it: You may view it as a ‘suicide mission’, but the Tories were voted in with a very large majority to deliver Brexit. Doesn't make it any more justifiable. The fact that a majority of people voted for it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It simply means a majority of people are gullible enough that they can be persuaded to vote against their best interests. So, sorry, no - you can’t just blame the Tories for this one. Why not? After a vote which asked a binary question with several ways forward possible after a vote to leave the EU, the Tories have consistently hewn to the stupidest, most damaging, most expensively wasteful way forward, and have also chosen, in the middle of a global pandemic, not to extend the transition period, so that this country's businesses will have to deal with a double economic hit. Of course the Tories can be blamed for it. Without Tory back-benchers making a fuss about something that, at the time, almost nobody else cared about, Cameron would not have promised a referendum. A Tory PM chose to pull us out of the single market and the customs union. Another Tory PM signed a deal which puts a border in the Irish Sea and then chose not to extend the transition period even though we don't have infrastructure in place to handle the checks that deal makes necessary. Who else should I blame? This mess originated with the Tories, and they've spent the last four years doing everything they can to make a bad situation worse. And in THIS context, when we're looking at how much money may be needed to stop our entire cultural sector sliding into insolvency before it becomes safe for them to reopen, I'm afraid it's sickening - at least, to anyone with a conscience - to see the government dragging their heels over pumping money into saving jobs and companies when they've been spending hand over fist on an exercise which will put people out of work. It's disgusting, and the fact that a majority of constituencies (though NOT a majority in percentage terms) voted for it doesn't make it any less so. There are many valid arguments to be had about Brexit. I’m not going to derail this thread with them, though. I’ll take some time out instead to nurse my offended conscience ;-)
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