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Post by mhumphries on Apr 21, 2020 8:20:01 GMT
So was talking with a mate today about when we both saw Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. He saw it in London, I saw it on the national tour in Plymouth. I was never that impressed with the thing, feeling it was more like watching people act out scenes from a movie then an actual flowing play. He then went into a 20 minute rant where he defend the show, during this I noticed something, he never once mentioned sets, lighting, direction or narrative, every defence he gave the play included two points, famous celebrity name and the enjoyment of seeing (insert multiple celeb names) acting together.
This got me thinking, can plays or musicals enjoyment be enhanced by a familiar face? Now obviously that familiar face has to be good, crap material performed by a crap performer is going to be crap.
Can you think of any play or musical that just would not have worked without that Celebrity face in the cast. The type of play or musical that no mater how good the traditional theatre cast, is just flat with out the Celebrity spectacle.
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Post by danb on Apr 21, 2020 8:29:06 GMT
I can think of several things that would have benefitted greatly from the celeb not being there! Caprice in ‘Rent’, one of Atomic Kitten in the ‘Legally Blond’ tour...I thought ‘Chitty’ was/is ok as a family panto type show. Seeing Carrie HF and Lee Mead in it added to my enjoyment but would in no way be a deal breaker. More important I think is the fact that many of these productions would never get off the ground or the required money invested without a celeb attached.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 8:30:03 GMT
For me personally, I can't think of any musical that was better because there was a familiar/famous face, UNLESS that familiar face happened to be the best person for the role (for example in Sunset - LuPone, Buckley and Paige were familiar faces and were also absolutely at the top of their game).
I think the GBP feels differently though and familiar faces bring a huge amount of £££ in. More so with every year that goes by.
I can sadly think of lots of examples where a musical has been worse however, because of the casting of a familiar face who is really not the best person (IMHO) for the job!
What will be interesting is how this will all play out in the post Corona resurgence - I suspect we will see even more stunt casting.
And sadly I can't imagine production values will be positively affected. Hope I am wrong!
(One caveat - where that familiar face is genuinely a star turn; that can be truly wonderful).
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Post by Mark on Apr 21, 2020 8:40:42 GMT
This got me thinking, can plays or musicals enjoyment be enhanced by a familiar face? I think the answer to this is absolutely. However to us regular theatre goers, a "familiar face" may include the likes of Patti Lupone/Bernadette Peters. I know for sure they both brought more to Company/Hello, Dolly! to me than someone unknown to me would have. Equally, whilst he did nothing for me in the role, I'm sure David Hasslehoff enhanced 9 to 5 for many audience members who had clearly booked to see him. I think back to when I saw Robin Williams in Bengal Tiger on Broadway, I wouldn't have even seen the play had he not been in it. Definitely an "event" rather than going for just the play. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 11:46:16 GMT
This got me thinking, can plays or musicals enjoyment be enhanced by a familiar face? Now obviously that familiar face has to be good, crap material performed by a crap performer is going to be crap. I think they definitely can, though it’s not a guarantee. A respected, talented performer in a great role within a great story is only ever going to enhance it. But if the story is terrible (which of course is subjective), no one can save it - for example I love Nicole Kidman but found Photograph 51 to be a total snooze fest, as was Peter and Alice with Ben Whishaw and Judi Dench. But watching Glenn Close in Sunset Boulevard was magical. Seeing Patti in a Company was a joy, as was watching Judi Dench in The Winter’s Tale a few years ago (I swear she’s the best interpreter of Shakespeare we have). Angela Lansbury in Blithe Spirit was a highlight too. Sadly I doubt it’ll happen now, but that’s part of why I was looking forward to Jake Gyllenhaal in Sunday - we know he can sing it, we know he’s a great actor, but most importantly we know just how good a musical it is too. So for me story is key. Look at Ian McKellen’s recent one man show: it doesn’t matter how great an actor he is, if he’s going to do a two to three hour show about himself then it needs to be entertaining (it was). |
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Post by clair on Apr 21, 2020 11:57:46 GMT
I'm not sure about enhanced as I've seen many things with no-one I've heard of in and loved them. However there are always going to be roles you associate with someone in particular so I would say seeing them rather than someone else could become key - my personal example would be Lyn Paul as Mrs J, I've seen others in the role and they never quite do it for me. For me it's more a case of there are some shows I've really enjoyed that I just wouldn't have seen had a performer I really like not been in them, partly down to finances and occasionally as the show, be it musical or play, just wasn't something that appealed but that performer got me there.
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Post by kathryn on Apr 21, 2020 13:56:54 GMT
It's not the familiarity of the face, it's the affection the audience holds them in.
I was totally unmoved by Glenn Close in Sunset Boulevard at ENO. I left after about 5 minutes of the standing ovation she got - it probably went on for another 5 minutes after that! Her fans were having some kind of spiritual experience seeing her perform. I had a similar experience with Glenda Jackson's Lear - absent that connection to her as a performer I found it totally flat, but you'd never know it from the way others responded.
An audience connection with a particular performer enhances the material being performed, even if they are past their prime. That's why people still turn out for performers who they loved in their youth even though they can't possibly perform on the same level any more. In music, the nostalgia circuit relies on it.
Theatre geeks will always turn out to see Judi Dench and Ian Mckellan, or Maggie Smith. They could be reading the phone book and we'd go, because it's experiencing that affectionate connection that is rewarding.
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Post by theatreian on Apr 21, 2020 14:07:45 GMT
Thinking back it is actors in plays who have made the most impact. Linda Gray and Kathleen Turner in The Graduate were the main reason I saw it twice. Also Patrick Duffy in Art and Charleton Heston in Love Letters and Olympia Dukakis in Rose. Those are the ones that sprung to mind where I saw the performance largely due to that actor being in it and yes it was enhanced by them being in it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 14:30:00 GMT
It's not the familiarity of the face, it's the affection the audience holds them in. I was totally unmoved by Glenn Close in Sunset Boulevard at ENO. I left after about 5 minutes of the standing ovation she got - it probably went on for another 5 minutes after that! Her fans were having some kind of spiritual experience seeing her perform. I had a similar experience with Glenda Jackson's Lear - absent that connection to her as a performer I found it totally flat, but you'd never know it from the way others responded. An audience connection with a particular performer enhances the material being performed, even if they are past their prime. That's why people still turn out for performers who they loved in their youth even though they can't possibly perform on the same level any more. In music, the nostalgia circuit relies on it. Theatre geeks will always turn out to see Judi Dench and Ian Mckellan, or Maggie Smith. They could be reading the phone book and we'd go, because it's experiencing that affectionate connection that is rewarding. You raise an excellent point. The Glenn reception has always mystified me but now I am sure was riding on a tide of pre-existing love and admiration (which for her fans if fair enough!). They truly were having some kind of spiritual experience. The singing just wasn't there and you'd have a job to see the expressions from 99% of the seats at the ENO but that didn't matter for most of the audience. EP used to absolutely tower on stage and I just adored her in Anything Goes and Sunset. But seeing her at the RAH concert it really saddened me how her voice is really not what it was. And she has developed all kinds of odd singing habits and styles to get her to the notes. Rather than singing as written. Still, this happens to all of us as we get older. I still loved seeing her as she's EP. But someone who'd never seen her before or heard of her might have been left wondering why she was the 1st last for so long. So yes I think you are right - it's the affection the audience holds them in. Sheridan in Joseph is another one. Her fans LOVED her. Personally I missed the score being belted out with MT precision and power, but there we are..... |
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Apr 22, 2020 5:51:48 GMT
I can remember several occasions where celebrities overshadowed the play/musical and it was all about them, doing their "routines" on stage. That does not mean I didn't enjoy the performance. Examples are the Tennant / Tate "Much Ado About Nothing" (which was recreating their Doctor Who-relationship) or the John Barrowman 'La Cage Aux Folles' (as opposed to the Douglas Hodge-version).
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Post by danb on Apr 26, 2020 17:50:11 GMT
Remember Maggie Smith’s ‘Talking Heads’ being quite special at the Comedy and living up to the hype. Dame Judi in ALNM was lovely. Even Chandler off of ‘Friends’ was great in ‘Sexual Perversity in Chicago’ (alongside Minnie Driver & Homer Simpson, but Kelly Reilly was the real star...like, career making good). Madonna in ‘Up For Grabs’ won’t be featuring in my comments as I’m experimenting with kindness (shudders).
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