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Post by Jan on Jan 10, 2020 14:11:35 GMT
This looks interesting. However, it is a 1950’s play by a Swiss writer set in a Central European town, so why on earth are the NT using a version where it is relocated to USA ? European drama is woefully under-represented at the NT, on the other hand they’re absolutely in thrall to America. Very curious for an arts organisation that opposed Brexit, the exact opposite of what you’d expect. When was the last time they staged a play set in a European country other than UK or Ireland ?
I think the answer to my first question is they’ve taken American money so they have to spend it on American productions. Norris also has a stated policy of using American actors.
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Post by couldileaveyou on Jan 10, 2020 14:20:35 GMT
When was the last time they staged a play set in a European country other than UK or Ireland ? They're currently having "My brilliant friend" which is set in Naples, although they did everything possible to strip Naples of all its Italianness and turn it into a generic rough neighbourhood. It might be set in Tower Hamlets for how generic it is. |
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Post by Jan on Jan 10, 2020 14:26:25 GMT
When was the last time they staged a play set in a European country other than UK or Ireland ? They're currently having "My brilliant friend" which is set in Naples, although they did everything possible to strip Naples of all its Italianness and turn it into a generic rough neighbourhood. It might be set in Tower Hamlets for how generic it is. Yes, I’m discounting productions like Miss Julie which are by European writers but which appear to be set in a generic version of present-day Islington. The Captain of Köpenick in 2013 is one I can remember. Red Barn ? They moved that to America too though didn’t they ? |
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Post by peggs on Jan 10, 2020 16:22:06 GMT
Yep red barn was played as american.
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Post by MrBunbury on Jan 10, 2020 16:45:24 GMT
"The red barn" is set in Connecticut in the original Simenon's novel so that was actually accurate. However, I agree that moving "The visit" to the US sounds questionable because the background is a European city that faded from past glory and relatively rich history (if I recall well, citizens celebrate the fact that Goethe slept there once), which is less believable in an American setting. I am still very excited to see the play because it will be my first production.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 17:09:38 GMT
This looks interesting. However, it is a 1950’s play by a Swiss writer set in a Central European town, so why on earth are the NT using a version where it is relocated to USA ? European drama is woefully under-represented at the NT, on the other hand they’re absolutely in thrall to America. Very curious for an arts organisation that opposed Brexit, the exact opposite of what you’d expect. When was the last time they staged a play set in a European country other than UK or Ireland ? I think the answer to my first question is they’ve taken American money so they have to spend it on American productions. Norris also has a stated policy of using American actors. There is much more to it than that and any English language version is hampered by having to take on the play as adapted for the USA in the late fifties. Every professional English language production, as far as I’m aware, has to use the Maurice Valency adaptation as he was, somehow, granted exclusive English language stage rights. It’s not a good version as it softens it, detheatricalises it, relocates it and generally mucks it up. Some, such as McBurney in tne Complicite production, manage to find a way to overcome at least some of the problems. I see that Tony Kushner has been allowed to adapt Valency’s version, which is a blessing, though I imagine that keeping the setting and bones of the Valency version was a contractual obligation. As Durrenmatt didn’t die until 1990 and Valency in 1996 most of us will be long gone before we can get the original, without having to watch it in another language. |
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Post by viserys on Jan 10, 2020 17:13:47 GMT
"The red barn" is set in Connecticut in the original Simenon's novel so that was actually accurate. However, I agree that moving "The visit" to the US sounds questionable because the background is a European city that faded from past glory and relatively rich history (if I recall well, citizens celebrate the fact that Goethe slept there once), which is less believable in an American setting. I am still very excited to see the play because it will be my first production. Hmmm, well, America certainly has plenty of places "faded from glory", too. We did Dürrenmatt, Frisch and the rest of that bunch at school and apparently their plays should mostly be seen as parables that could be set anywhere (much like Frisch's Andorra isn't actually meant to be the real Andorra). Which is how it's usually staged in Germany's godawful Regietheater anyway - you won't see any Swiss mountains in the background. Since I avoid German theatre like the plague, I'm actually looking forward to see this famous play live at last and considering how plays are butchered here, the relocation doesn't bother me much. How I wish that a London theatre would tackle Goethe's Faust! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 17:33:05 GMT
There’s a very good translation that is available to read, by Patrick Bowles. Another, more recent one, by Joel Agee is a version I don’t know but it’s probably worth a look to get a sense of what was taken out of the German original by Valency.
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Post by crabtree on Jan 10, 2020 18:30:25 GMT
Is this the source for Kander and ebb's last, and oh so haunting, musical, The Visit.
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Post by viserys on Jan 10, 2020 19:43:17 GMT
Is this the source for Kander and ebb's last, and oh so haunting, musical, The Visit. yes |
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Post by Jan on Jan 11, 2020 12:48:45 GMT
This looks interesting. However, it is a 1950’s play by a Swiss writer set in a Central European town, so why on earth are the NT using a version where it is relocated to USA ? European drama is woefully under-represented at the NT, on the other hand they’re absolutely in thrall to America. Very curious for an arts organisation that opposed Brexit, the exact opposite of what you’d expect. When was the last time they staged a play set in a European country other than UK or Ireland ? I think the answer to my first question is they’ve taken American money so they have to spend it on American productions. Norris also has a stated policy of using American actors. There is much more to it than that and any English language version is hampered by having to take on the play as adapted for the USA in the late fifties. Every professional English language production, as far as I’m aware, has to use the Maurice Valency adaptation as he was, somehow, granted exclusive English language stage rights. It’s not a good version as it softens it, detheatricalises it, relocates it and generally mucks it up. Some, such as McBurney in tne Complicite production, manage to find a way to overcome at least some of the problems. I see that Tony Kushner has been allowed to adapt Valency’s version, which is a blessing, though I imagine that keeping the setting and bones of the Valency version was a contractual obligation. As Durrenmatt didn’t die until 1990 and Valency in 1996 most of us will be long gone before we can get the original, without having to watch it in another language. Very interesting - thanks for that. |
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Post by Polly1 on Jan 11, 2020 14:18:38 GMT
When/where was the Complicite production? I wasn't aware it had been done here before.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 14:39:20 GMT
When/where was the Complicite production? I wasn't aware it had been done here before. 1989/1990, Kathryn Hunter won the Olivier for Best Actress. It was their breakthrough production really. www.complicite.org/productions/TheVisit |
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Post by Polly1 on Jan 12, 2020 0:04:52 GMT
When/where was the Complicite production? I wasn't aware it had been done here before. 1989/1990, Kathryn Hunter won the Olivier for Best Actress. It was their breakthrough production really. www.complicite.org/productions/TheVisitAh, thank you. That was just before I started serious theatre-going. A pity as I would have loved to have seen this version. Looking forward to seeing what the NT does with it. |
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Post by bordeaux on Jan 12, 2020 10:44:25 GMT
"The red barn" is set in Connecticut in the original Simenon's novel so that was actually accurate. However, I agree that moving "The visit" to the US sounds questionable because the background is a European city that faded from past glory and relatively rich history (if I recall well, citizens celebrate the fact that Goethe slept there once), which is less believable in an American setting. I am still very excited to see the play because it will be my first production. Kushner is brilliant writer and I am sure he will do something excellent with this. It may be that some of the specifically 1950s references to prosperity and a society losing its moral compass due to its greed will go (the German/European economic miracle is the background to the play), but if the play is worth doing it's because it's not limited by its setting: it applies equally well to contemporary US where there is lots of poverty, lots of forgotten places and where the super-rich have lots of power and influence. The line is 'Goethe hat hier übernachtet, Brahms ein Quartett komponiert'. Goethe spent the night here, Brahms composed a quartet. I am intrigued to see what Kushner will do with that. Hard to think of a US writer who has the same centrality to the culture or a composer from the distant past (or a century ago) who means the same to the US. Henry James or Hermann Melville or Edith Wharton don't have the same associations or level of recognition. Or perhaps he'll change the art forms? Charlie Chaplin spent the night here (not a US artist, I know)? Irving Berlin/Cole Porter composed a song? Any suggestions? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 13:13:34 GMT
Trying to find out a bit more, this looks as though it might be a bigger diversion from the Valency translation than it could have been, It may be that Kushner has had to reset it (again) to ensure it is clearly different. Whether that means more Duerrenmatt stylistically, if not location, we’ll have to wait and see.
The setting of the original is Guellen (liquid manure) whereas Valency used Brachen (broken). Kushner using Slurry as the place name seems closer in spirit at least. A Swiss setting was able to play on how neutrality was a veneer covering the same venality as its neighbour. Valency mucked that up with a more generic script (tailored for star Lynne Fontanne with husband Alfred Lunt), so it was as Swiss as Clam Chowder. Interpolating placenames for an American mid century setting could go either way. Kushner had originally thought of this as a version for Oprah Winfrey, seeming to use America’s underbelly of racism as Duerrenmatt did with Naziism. Casting Manville and Weaving seems to get rid of that, though.
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Post by profquatermass on Jan 12, 2020 16:37:06 GMT
They're currently having "My brilliant friend" which is set in Naples, although they did everything possible to strip Naples of all its Italianness and turn it into a generic rough neighbourhood. It might be set in Tower Hamlets for how generic it is. Yes, I’m discounting productions like Miss Julie which are by European writers but which appear to be set in a generic version of present-day Islington. The Captain of Köpenick in 2013 is one I can remember. Red Barn ? They moved that to America too though didn’t they ? Around the same time as Captain of Kopernick they did From Morning 'til Midnight and Emil and the Detectives. These were two were on at the same time and both involved chase scenes though Berlin. Since then there's been The Hour We Knew Nothing of Each Other and Exit the King. I'm sure there's been others. |
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 12, 2020 18:12:06 GMT
I think I'll give this a miss, Kushner is way to idiosyncratic for me.
While Angles is very much 'event' theatre, I still in the end didn't think it was enjoyable and I absolutely loathed Caroline or Change.
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Post by callum on Jan 12, 2020 21:41:16 GMT
7pm start suggest a long running time?
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Post by Jan on Jan 13, 2020 6:57:30 GMT
7pm start suggest a long running time? Oh dear. One's heart always sinks when that is advertised for exactly that reason. When the NT opened they had different starting times in each of the three theatres but in due course they were equalised. Also 8pm was quite a frequent starting time, in the old days the Almeida had it. Although personally I'd like a 7pm start for everything the problem is that 7:30pm is now so standard that any earlier start risks a massive influx of latecomers at 7:30. |
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Post by edi on Jan 16, 2020 20:21:27 GMT
Lots of £15 tickets popped up on the NT website just now.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 17, 2020 1:00:40 GMT
Lots of £15 tickets popped up on the NT website just now. Thanks! Picked some up for next week x |
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Post by drmaplewood on Jan 17, 2020 6:02:17 GMT
Lots of £15 tickets popped up on the NT website just now. Thanks very much for this. |
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Post by MrBraithwaite on Jan 29, 2020 13:22:49 GMT
Just saw this on the NT site:
Running Time: Approx 4 hours, including 2 intervals
Wow. Just randomly checked a production currently running here in Germany: 2 hours 30 incl. interval.
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Post by intoanewlife on Jan 29, 2020 13:41:08 GMT
Just saw this on the NT site: Running Time: Approx 4 hours, including 2 intervals Wow. Just randomly checked a production currently running here in Germany: 2 hours 30 incl. interval. Yikes! My other half will not be happy lol |
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