449 posts
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Chess
Jun 28, 2017 17:02:00 GMT
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jun 28, 2017 17:02:00 GMT
In an English language recording where actors are pretending to be from Switzerland, Britain, America and Russia, it's grating for everyone to be all "hurdy gurdy, bork bork bork". I know. It's the same as when Tommy Körberg tries that awful Russian accent during 'Anthem' and fails miserably. And don't get me started on Josh Groban and Kerry Ellis with their attempts at sounding like they're from downtown St Petersburg in the Albert Hall show. Norm Lewis's accent is also hilarious. I get off on this stuff! Ha! |
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Chess
Jul 2, 2017 18:33:44 GMT
Post by distantcousin on Jul 2, 2017 18:33:44 GMT
Are you sure Barbara Dickson actually played Florence or was she just rumoured for this at the time? There is no mention of this on Barbara's bio. I have heard this 'rumour' before but struggle to find any evidence that she actually played Florence anywhere. I would love to hear her in the role though. See my posts. I remember hearing about her doing it back in 1997! |
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Post by distantcousin on Jul 2, 2017 18:34:31 GMT
Blistering version - La Paige at the height of her powers! |
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Chess
Jul 2, 2017 18:37:01 GMT
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richey likes this
Post by steve10086 on Jul 2, 2017 18:37:01 GMT
I just think they should give up working out new versions of Chess! I thought the version at the Royal Albert Hall was supposed to have been Tim Rice's definitive version. It's a show about Cold War politics and a board game - it's never going to be a popular sell. Just accept that and get on with singing the amazing songs!
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1,351 posts
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Chess
Jul 2, 2017 18:46:31 GMT
Post by CG on the loose on Jul 2, 2017 18:46:31 GMT
Are you sure Barbara Dickson actually played Florence or was she just rumoured for this at the time? There is no mention of this on Barbara's bio. I have heard this 'rumour' before but struggle to find any evidence that she actually played Florence anywhere. I would love to hear her in the role though. See my posts. I remember hearing about her doing it back in 1997! Not sure you'd class Wiki as evidence Scswp but "A later Australian production played at the Princess Theatre, Melbourne, in 1997, with Barbara Dickson as Florence (she had sung Svetlana on the original studio cast album). Co-stars included Derek Metzger and Daryl Braithwaite." ETA: But this has full cast list - www.ausstage.edu.au/pages/event/11631 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 19:03:56 GMT
Blistering version - La Paige at the height of her powers! A particularly lively rythm section & a lot of excellent pointing from Ms. Paige. The other video of this I have a soft spot for is Julia Murney's rehearsal. She must be pretty near the top of actresses I'm dying to see. |
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Post by Dawnstar on Jul 2, 2017 21:18:27 GMT
I wonder if anyone has ever written a dissertation comparing how the 1986 musicals that Andrew Lloyd Webber & Tim Rice wrote for their respective lovers portray relationships. It could be an interesting analysis.
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Chess
Jul 2, 2017 21:38:22 GMT
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Post by danb on Jul 2, 2017 21:38:22 GMT
Was Tim Rice the russian or Freddie? Absolutely love his autobiography (and would love a second volume!). If anyone is going to his q&a please mither him for another book.
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4,029 posts
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Chess
Jul 2, 2017 21:51:46 GMT
Post by Dawnstar on Jul 2, 2017 21:51:46 GMT
Was Tim Rice the russian or Freddie? Absolutely love his autobiography (and would love a second volume!). If anyone is going to his q&a please mither him for another book. I've sometimes wondered if he was Anatoly & Chess was his way of telling Elaine Paige that he wouldn't leave his wife & marry her. Admittedly that's a heck of a convoluted & expensive way to end a relationship! Yes, I hope he does a second volume at some point. |
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243 posts
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Chess
Jul 3, 2017 14:07:16 GMT
Post by musicallady on Jul 3, 2017 14:07:16 GMT
I've listened to most versions and for me the best version by far was the UK tour with Maurice Clarke, Rebecca Storm and Chris Corcoran.
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Chess
Jul 3, 2017 14:20:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 14:20:21 GMT
I've listened to most versions and for me the best version by far was the UK tour with Maurice Clarke, Rebecca Storm and Chris Corcoran. That was the first UK tour and i still remember seeing it in Wimbledon. I wonder what happened to those people, they were all big names in the early 90's. |
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243 posts
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Chess
Jul 3, 2017 14:31:30 GMT
Post by musicallady on Jul 3, 2017 14:31:30 GMT
I've listened to most versions and for me the best version by far was the UK tour with Maurice Clarke, Rebecca Storm and Chris Corcoran. That was the first UK tour and i still remember seeing it in Wimbledon. I wonder what happened to those people, they were all big names in the early 90's. Showing my age I can remember seeing Chris Corcoran as Joseph in the Kenwright tour. I saw this tour of Chess at every venue it played. Maurice Clarke had a superb voice. Must hunt out my recording.😉 |
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Chess
Jul 3, 2017 16:58:07 GMT
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 3, 2017 16:58:07 GMT
Someone stop him.... please  |
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jul 3, 2017 17:40:32 GMT
Admittedly that's a heck of a convoluted & expensive way to end a relationship! It was a chequered one indeed... I'll get me coat... It's not as black and white as it seems, maybe you could check, mate? |
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Chess
Jul 4, 2017 3:51:12 GMT
Post by rosscoe on Jul 4, 2017 3:51:12 GMT
See my posts. I remember hearing about her doing it back in 1997! Not sure you'd class Wiki as evidence Scswp but "A later Australian production played at the Princess Theatre, Melbourne, in 1997, with Barbara Dickson as Florence (she had sung Svetlana on the original studio cast album). Co-stars included Derek Metzger and Daryl Braithwaite." ETA: But this has full cast list - www.ausstage.edu.au/pages/event/11631OMG that was one of the worst productions ever, it come with the now famous "Shopping Trolley Ballet" |
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Chess
Jul 5, 2017 2:10:48 GMT
Post by holbee22 on Jul 5, 2017 2:10:48 GMT
I have to put in a good word for the semi-reviled Broadway Trevor production. I loved it. I actually go back every couple years to Lincoln Center to watch it. I found the book by the now-worshiped American playwright Richard Nelson. It is the only version I have ever seen where I actually cared about the characters, wondered about their backstories, bought the love story at its center. A magnificent cast as well. It's obviously political but puts the emphasis on the people. There is actual heart there. The "Heaven Help My Heart" scene between Florence and Molokov is beautiful. It had the audacity to cut favorite numbers from the black album because they didn't make any theatrical sense (somewhat like the new trend of giving "Someone Else's Story" to Svetlana--wha..huh?). I have seen many Chess's since (including the truly ridiculous S&M Chess Board Chorus/Orchestra Clive Revel UK touring production) but none have come close to the cohesion of the original Broadway production. I know I am in the minority, but I hated the idea of the cuts when I heard about it originally and only went because I was literally just walking by the theatre and someone offered me a 10.00 ticket. I fell in love with the show and saw it three more times, including the final performance. One of my absolute favorite theatre experiences of my lifetime.
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Post by danb on Jul 5, 2017 10:21:39 GMT
I do remember being disappointed with this when my 17 year old self got it on import down the Arndale. Why would they mess about with it said I, only knowing it as a cd full of songs not an attempt at a cohesive show. Once I actually saw the tour the next year it was clear that this was a load of fab songs in search of something to hang them from, and perhaps the Yanks/Nunn were right to try & make some sense of it.
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Post by loureviews on Jul 6, 2017 12:37:22 GMT
The book is a mess because the premise is bad. The pretence that chess is a dramatic and sexy spectator sport can't be sustained - hence the emphasis on back story. Freddie's got a line to some club girl while he's grinding away on a Bangkok disco floor... "I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine"... which is ludicrous in itself and sums up (for me) the show's problem. The score is great, though. I always thought that line meant he got his kicks from intellectual pleasures ie playing chess rather than physical ones. |
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jul 6, 2017 12:55:18 GMT
Also, Freddie Trumper - "the man who revitalised chess single handed" - is an expy of Bobby Fischer, who beat a Soviet during the Cold War, in a tournament held in neutral Iceland. According to Wiki, he became "reclusive and erratic", he famously accused the USSR of cheating, raising tensions between the countries in a crucial time politically.
Trumper is Fischer; almost everything Tim Rice has ever written is based on existing text (Evita is based on a very unflattering and now historically questionable biography written by an anti-Peronist) so it's no surprise for Rice to have gone this route.
Fischer - and therefore Trumper - really did revitalise chess single handed according to historical accounts. He was a bit of a "rock star" of the sporting world, arrogant, outspoken and anti-communist. All of the things Trumper (aka "The American" are shown to be.
My point is that the lyrics on their own are accurate and strong. The BOOK however, being the story set within the universe, is the problem.
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449 posts
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Chess
Jul 6, 2017 12:56:46 GMT
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jul 6, 2017 12:56:46 GMT
The book is a mess because the premise is bad. The pretence that chess is a dramatic and sexy spectator sport can't be sustained - hence the emphasis on back story. Freddie's got a line to some club girl while he's grinding away on a Bangkok disco floor... "I get my kicks above the waistline, sunshine"... which is ludicrous in itself and sums up (for me) the show's problem. The score is great, though. I always thought that line meant he got his kicks from intellectual pleasures ie playing chess rather than physical ones. And I am sure this is the author's intention. |
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449 posts
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Chess
Jul 6, 2017 13:00:51 GMT
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jul 6, 2017 13:00:51 GMT
The one major issue I have with some of the content, particularly on the original cast recording, is at one point the Russian refers to the American as "a fruit", with Florence saying he is not "one of them". This is a strange choice (although the inference was quickly changed) as I don't see what Trumper had done to imply he was gay. Unstable, "a nut" and "off his head" (the later lyrics) perhaps, but what does being a fruit have to do with anything?
Later on, Trumper laments that his Dad thought he was "no good, and probably queer" but that feels unnecessary too - although that lyric makes more sense in context of his unhappy childhood.
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Post by mallardo on Jul 6, 2017 13:25:24 GMT
"Trumper" could hardly be a more unfortunate name for a leading character. On the other hand he is a bit of a self-pitying narcissistic jerk.
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4,029 posts
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Chess
Jul 6, 2017 19:38:18 GMT
Post by Dawnstar on Jul 6, 2017 19:38:18 GMT
The one major issue I have with some of the content, particularly on the original cast recording, is at one point the Russian refers to the American as "a fruit", with Florence saying he is not "one of them". This is a strange choice (although the inference was quickly changed) as I don't see what Trumper had done to imply he was gay. Unstable, "a nut" and "off his head" (the later lyrics) perhaps, but what does being a fruit have to do with anything? I thought "a fruit" meant the same as "a nut". I have heard the expression "a fruit and nutcase" used so thought it was 2 different shortenings for the same expression. I have never come across it used as slang for someoen being homosexual. There seems to be no end of seemingly-innocent words that have been turned into slang terms for some aspect of sex or sexuality. |
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Post by d'James on Jul 6, 2017 20:18:27 GMT
Fruit, I would always assume to mean gay (as they use it in my favourite movie). Fruitcake would be equal to a nut in my vocab. Not that I know the story in this case.
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jul 6, 2017 21:00:34 GMT
It's quite common, Dawn, although *very* 1970's/80's slang. As is "one of them" e.g "don't turn your back on him, he's one of them", traditional homophobic comedy you'd expect someone like Jim Davidson to come out with, not Sir Tim Rice... Major says it to Basil Fawlty as a sign of his dated views in Fawlty Towers...
It just seems an odd piece of writing
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