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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 1:51:55 GMT
This isn't the case in "true STV". For example, if you are in a constituency which has 4 MPs, there would be up to 4 candidates from each party. So you can vote for Labour Linda and Conservative Catherine as options 1 and 2, but choose not to give any preference to Conservative Colin or Labour Larry. You can vote for one Women's Equality Party candidate and give the rest of your preferences to a more mainstream party. You could choose between a Eurosceptic candidate or a Europhile one from the same party. It actually reduces party power - right now you can only vote for the single candidate the party selects, so if you end up with (e.g.) Kate Hoey or Jared O'Mara, you're stuck with them. True STV actually lets you select between candidates of the same party, and if there's a by-election, there is a proper by-election between one candidate from each party to fill the gap. What you're describing is the Party List system, which I'm vehemently opposed to for exactly the reasons you state. That is completely bogus. 100% Linda would be a Conservative Talking of Jared O'Mara aka worst MP ever, Labour actually retained that seat. |
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Post by lynette on Dec 15, 2019 15:48:18 GMT
They ain’t gonna change the voting system. The weird thing is that the UK can’t cope with the ‘deal’ coalition type system which other countries take for granted and seem to cope with fine. Well, it looks that way. The UK moves along when there is a definite majority government. One way or the other. And what amazes me, is that this majority comes at intervals after a period of one gov or other and when a real move is required. One way or the other 🤪
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Post by tmesis on Dec 15, 2019 17:34:37 GMT
I still can't quite believe the result. Not that the Tories won, or that Surrey Heath, where I live, has re-elected Gove (who knew?) but that the village of my birth, one South Normanton, Derbyshire - famous for coming second in a poll for Shabbiest High Steet in Britain - and in the constituency of Bolsover, with the famous Beast Dennis Skinner as its MP for nearly 50 years is now Tory. I still have family living there, return frequently, and The Beast actually lives in the village and has absolutely iconic status with the locals. He was a fantastically helpful and efficient local MP, dealing with some of the most trivial constituency matters with great courtesy and friendliness, belying his acerbic Westminster image. Maybe it's for the best, the guy is 87 and not in great health but it really does feel like the end of an era.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 18:11:49 GMT
I still can't quite believe the result. Not that the Tories won, or that Surrey Heath, where I live, has re-elected Gove (who knew?) but that the village of my birth, one South Normanton, Derbyshire - famous for coming second in a poll for Shabbiest High Steet in Britain - and in the constituency of Bolsover, with the famous Beast Dennis Skinner as its MP for nearly 50 years is now Tory. I still have family living there, return frequently, and The Beast actually lives in the village and has absolutely iconic status with the locals. He was a fantastically helpful and efficient local MP, dealing with some of the most trivial constituency matters with great courtesy and friendliness, belying his acerbic Westminster image. Maybe it's for the best, the guy is 87 and not in great health but it really does feel like the end of an era. Although my politics are to the right, I was sad to see Dennis Skinner lose his seat as he has always been great to watch in Parliament and has some of the best one-liners out. Plus he always stuck to his beliefs no matter what which I always respect in anyone. I could well imagine that he'd be a great constituency MP and stand up for local people against big corporations etc. Incredible that he was still standing at 87 years old and a great shame he never got to be Father of the House. Him preceding over an election of a Speaker would have been must see - although he said he'd never take on that role. Only 3 MPs since 1945 have been older than him when serving as an MP. One of those was Winston Churchill who was 89 when he finally retired as an MP. There is another one S.O Davies although listed as being 85 when he died is widely believed to have been about 92 and is now recognised as such. He was born in a small Welsh village in about 1879 and his birth may not have been properly recorded. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 18:18:03 GMT
With talk of the Labour Leadership, it could be worth watching Dan Jarvis and Sadiq Khan longterm. Dan is still an MP and is Mayor of Sheffield, a former Army Major and seems a pretty impressive guy. Sadiq seems to be doing a good job as London Mayor and is the senior elected Labour person in power in effect. He'll be up for re-election next summer and I'd think he'd have a great chance of getting in again. Boris did 2 terms as London Mayor and used that as a launch pad for his Leadership bid. With next Election likely to be 2024 then Mayor Khan would have done two terms and might fancy getting back into Westminster and be a live contender for next but one Labour Leader if they lose next election and Corbyn's replacement moves on or getting a top cabinet job if they get back into power.
Dan and Sadiq will also have had experience of running big cities and any future Labour Government will be short on Ministerial experience so guys like this will be very useful.
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Post by david on Dec 15, 2019 18:27:03 GMT
With Dennis Skinner no longer an MP, his quips in the Commons were always a highlight of the state opening of Parliament for me. A real character in British politics and one that will be missed.
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 15, 2019 19:34:56 GMT
With talk of the Labour Leadership, it could be worth watching Dan Jarvis and Sadiq Khan longterm. Dan is still an MP and is Mayor of Sheffield, a former Army Major and seems a pretty impressive guy. I've watched Jarvis since around 2012 and he hasn't really put a step wrong (that I am aware of). Very strong back story, proven strong leader (military and civilian). It may well be that the Labour Party has to get the female leader thing out of its system first but he isn't 50 yet so has time. Absolutely one to watch - if he ever wants it : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Jarvis
Sadiq has said he's already in the job he wants most. Who really knows ..
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 15, 2019 21:16:54 GMT
Sadiq Khan...the muslim mayor who 3 months ago allowed the closure of London's largest and most popular gay venue and wouldn't even answer emails about the situation.
He won't be getting my vote again.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 18, 2019 18:05:04 GMT
With talk of the Labour Leadership, it could be worth watching Dan Jarvis and Sadiq Khan longterm. Dan is still an MP and is Mayor of Sheffield, a former Army Major and seems a pretty impressive guy. I've watched Jarvis since around 2012 and he hasn't really put a step wrong (that I am aware of). Very strong back story, proven strong leader (military and civilian). It may well be that the Labour Party has to get the female leader thing out of its system first but he isn't 50 yet so has time. Absolutely one to watch - if he ever wants it : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Jarvis
Sadiq has said he's already in the job he wants most. Who really knows ..
Mmmm, Anti Corbyn remainer and Labour Friends Of Israel. I'm Out! But I said this other day, Remainer but voted to trigger Article 50 as "his constituents wished" = Tick Anti Corbyn (whether we like that or not) = Tick (sadly, obviously...) LFI = Tick (whether you agree or not) Ex Army to appeal to the Nationalists = Tick I'd rather him over Starmer, Thornberry, Gardiner or Jess Phillips. Or we could just get Farage in |
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 18, 2019 18:18:20 GMT
That's not right. Before the ref he supported Remain, after the ref he supported respect for the vote, and stuck by that position. He's too smart to be 'anti' very much. His whole professional life has been about building collations, even with the Russian army.
What he offers is what most people want most; professional, clear leadership.
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Post by sparky5000 on Dec 19, 2019 14:11:34 GMT
If the Labour Party persists down this ideological far left socialist route they will never get back in power imo.Corbynites and Momentum don’t seem to get that that they’re preaching to a minority. They should be taking a long hard look at what would make them electable, and go from there. I’m not a traditional Labour voter but I couldn’t vote for the Tories either - it’s depressing to have zero hope or trust in the 2 main political parties. this country needs strong opposition and Tories will be rubbing their hands with glee if the next leader turns out to be McDonnell’s ‘protege’, Rebecca Long Bailey, which is probably most likely given the political leaning of the Labour membership.
I personally think Lisa Nandy would be a good choice for the next Labour leader. She’s got some charisma and a sense of humour that is lacking in others, she gets the north and why those in working class communities are feeling the way they are (even if she does bang on about towns constantly 😆), she’s intelligent, and always speaks articulately, and I think she could give Boris a run for his money at PMQs. But yeah, probably not gonna happen! I also really like Jess Phillips but they’ll never vote her in!
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Post by Mr Snow on Dec 19, 2019 14:29:14 GMT
When will the Labour Party work out that unless you get elected it's all hot air? But that would mean listening to people who don't already vote for you...
My vote remains up for grabs and I've lived long enough to fear one party winning all the elections. Just give me hope that I will have a real choice next time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 16:02:59 GMT
Jess Phillips is a good local MP in my area and could perhaps be a compromise candidate that both sides of the party would accept. She is witty and does speak a lot of common sense but I'd probably see her as more a Deputy Leader type candidate as I think the Tory lead media would portray her as a "Nutty feminist" which would be unfair on her.
Also she has been subjected to a lot of unfair trolling locally so on a national scale as leader it could be very uncomfortable. But as deputy or a shadow front bench spokesman or even Party Chairwoman I think she'd do a good job.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 19, 2019 18:04:33 GMT
Jess Phillips is a good local MP in my area and could perhaps be a compromise candidate that both sides of the party would accept. She is witty and does speak a lot of common sense but I'd probably see her as more a Deputy Leader type candidate as I think the Tory lead media would portray her as a "Nutty feminist" which would be unfair on her. Also she has been subjected to a lot of unfair trolling locally so on a national scale as leader it could be very uncomfortable. But as deputy or a shadow front bench spokesman or even Party Chairwoman I think she'd do a good job. Should conservatives be choosing the next leader? |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 19, 2019 18:29:30 GMT
Jess Phillips is a good local MP in my area and could perhaps be a compromise candidate that both sides of the party would accept. She is witty and does speak a lot of common sense but I'd probably see her as more a Deputy Leader type candidate as I think the Tory lead media would portray her as a "Nutty feminist" which would be unfair on her. Also she has been subjected to a lot of unfair trolling locally so on a national scale as leader it could be very uncomfortable. But as deputy or a shadow front bench spokesman or even Party Chairwoman I think she'd do a good job. She’s way too hysterical. And that ever so ‘umble “I don’t understand parliamentary procedure mister speaker, all I know is blah blah blah” doesn’t fool me for one second. Actress. And anyway at £80k a year you should know the parliamentary procedure so go and learn it dear. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 18:30:31 GMT
Starmer - too technocratic, Long Bailey - too tainted, Thornberry - too sneering, Pidcock, too defeated, Cooper - too bland.
Rayner is good value but would struggle to be seen as ready for the international stage, Nandy I quite like, Phillips would be the best to improve Labour’s image by holding Johnson’s feet to the fire.
However.
All of this is missing what is seemingly needed to win power nowadays. From Kentucky to Kiev to Kidderminster, you win with someone that the masses have got to know on the telly, so not seen as your ‘typical politician’. As such, step forward Ed Balls, probably the best known and most liked Labour politician. Even Anne Widdecombe managed to change her image from mad, bigoted old bat to dotty grandma with two left feet.
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 19, 2019 18:49:36 GMT
I don’t know why there is so much attention on Labour. Tories are going to bring in voter ID, change boundaries, keep the right wing press. Plus Scotland has gone to the SNP, so realistically Labour cannot win.
James O’Brien had something when he said Labour tried to section electorate into Victim, Villain, Saviour. And there are too many people just content to poddle on not really bothering about homeless/ those on universal credit/ wind rush etc etc. They just watch TV and have an ok life and are not really bothered by social issues.
Daughter two has joined Acorn Community Union. I think we may have to do politics on a different model. The young and people like Extinction Rebellion will increasingly do politics routed in direct action.
Best suggestion I saw was every Labour constituency office where they have lost an MP should be opened up as an advisory centre by Labour helping local community (and paid for by Labour). Get out there...with the people.
My next Manifesto would include things that ordinary people find important on a totally practical level....libraries, cash points, post offices, banks not allowed to closed and, my favourite, free subscription for EVERY pub to all sports channels (sky, BT sport etc etc) and in return they agree to run 1 other community event a week out of hours (book club, knitting club, keep fit, community get together) Towns need life and events and places to meet.
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Post by Latecomer on Dec 19, 2019 18:53:08 GMT
Oh and I wouldn’t bother telling people my plans...just offer a couple of headline pledges, repeat them endlessly and then actually do the stuff I fancy when I get in....
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Post by vdcni on Dec 19, 2019 20:35:12 GMT
Seriously we're back to dismissing female politicians as hysterical now, what decade is this.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 19, 2019 22:33:21 GMT
Seriously we're back to dismissing female politicians as hysterical now, what decade is this. I dismissed ONE female politician as hysterical. Because in my opinion, she is. Female politicians are not beyond criticism are they? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 23:22:45 GMT
I fail to see one example of when she has been irrationality upset. If politicians can’t be angry at the current collapse of our nation then how is rational anger inappropriate?
The etymology of the word is, of course, opening up a massive can or worms.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 23:43:31 GMT
Maybe Labour has a look at what has made Nicola Sturgeon successful as she managed to mastermind her party to a successful election campaign.
Ed Balls would be an interesting choice but he has shown no great desire to return to Parliament as far as I can see,
So we are looking for someone with a hint of Farage, Sturgeon, appeals to minorities and has the ability to lead so the only candidate is Marvin the Martian.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 20, 2019 9:01:32 GMT
Maybe Labour has a look at what has made Nicola Sturgeon successful as she managed to mastermind her party to a successful election campaign. Ed Balls would be an interesting choice but he has shown no great desire to return to Parliament as far as I can see, So we are looking for someone with a hint of Farage, Sturgeon, appeals to minorities and has the ability to lead so the only candidate is Marvin the Martian. There is one candidate. In Liverpool we have been guilty of keeping him to ourselves. A winner, red, Socialist, charismatic, great with the press... Jurgen Klopp is the only candidate capable of beating Boris Johnson |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 13:02:24 GMT
Maybe Labour has a look at what has made Nicola Sturgeon successful as she managed to mastermind her party to a successful election campaign. Ed Balls would be an interesting choice but he has shown no great desire to return to Parliament as far as I can see, So we are looking for someone with a hint of Farage, Sturgeon, appeals to minorities and has the ability to lead so the only candidate is Marvin the Martian. There is one candidate. In Liverpool we have been guilty of keeping him to ourselves. A winner, red, Socialist, charismatic, great with the press... Jurgen Klopp is the only candidate capable of beating Boris Johnson Bill Shankly was often seen as someone who could have been PM too. |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Dec 20, 2019 14:30:00 GMT
There is one candidate. In Liverpool we have been guilty of keeping him to ourselves. A winner, red, Socialist, charismatic, great with the press... Jurgen Klopp is the only candidate capable of beating Boris Johnson Bill Shankly was often seen as someone who could have been PM too. Kloppo might struggle uniting red and blue, but it is more Brexiteer's and not Tories we need to win back eh  |
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