|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 12:43:33 GMT
In the unlikely event that she wins on the basis of whether a character is gay and whether everyone playing that character has to interpret them the same way, it doesn’t alter that facts of what she posted on Facebook which she’s never retracted. She’s entitled to hold those beliefs about homosexuality but equally people in the industry are entitled to not hire her, regardless of the outcome of the trial. If she doesn’t understand that it’s not just about winning the trial she must be a bit naive. Oh I am not sticking up for her any way for any of that stuff she did or this ridiculous court case which she is clearly doing for attention. I was merely stating that I wouldn't have considered Celie was a lesbian after seeing it the same way she supposedly had. The people who she offended in earlier jobs should've spoken up sooner though so that people knew what she was like so all of this could've been avoided. |
|
|
|
Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Feb 4, 2021 12:50:17 GMT
I've not seen the film but isn't she still a lesbian in it? The Wikipedia plot summary suggests she is. I have seen the movie countless times and endured the musical once so I am by no means an expert on the score. I don't know how different either are to the book, but there is no way I'd have ever said Celie was a lesbian, nor do I get the impression she was from Walkers statement. In both she had a single sexual encounter with a woman who showed her affection for the first time in her life and probably gave her a pretty good time in the process, but I don't see how that one encounter makes/made her a lesbian. She had her first enjoyable sexual encounter with a same sex partner like a lot of people have, I don't see how that automatically made her gay. I always assumed that Shug was meant to be the lesbian or bi-sexual character of the piece. I mean she never had another lover at all after her husband and Shug so maybe that is meant to imply she was and although she ends up leaving with Shug maaaaaaany years later, Shug is married to a man so I don't think their relationship went beyond friendship after that. Obviously there may be more in the book but if your only reference to the piece was the film and the musical I would never have taken away that she was a lesbian, so I don't think Seyi can be blamed for thinking the same. I think it's pretty unambiguous in the musical that Celie is attracted to women (whether you want to be pedantic about the possibility of attraction towards men because they don't explicitly rule it out, though they never suggest any either, then sure she could be bisexual but that wouldn't make a difference to Seyi's beliefs on the matter). I mean she and Shug share a love duet. If 'What About Love?' was sung by a man and a woman there would be no question that their relationship was anything less than a romantic one. |
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 12:54:47 GMT
Celie lives with Shug for a few years, so it was clearly a relationship? She lives with Shug and Shug's husband though, it is not shown or implied that they continued their relationship any further on that level, well not in the film or musical at least. I saw the 'chair' version though not the original so maybe it was different. She auditioned for a small role and was offered the lead, of course she was going to take it. I doubt she gave it any thought beyond the fact she was going to be the star of the show. I imagine opening night would've gone something like Ricky Gervais's on stage gay kiss in Extras... |
|
290 posts
|
Post by southstreet on Feb 4, 2021 13:04:19 GMT
Celie lives with Shug for a few years, so it was clearly a relationship? She lives with Shug and Shug's husband though, it is not shown or implied that they continued their relationship any further on that level, well not in the film or musical at least. I saw the 'chair' version though not the original so maybe it was different. She auditioned for a small role and was offered the lead, of course she was going to take it. I doubt she gave it any thought beyond the fact she was going to be the star of the show. I imagine opening night would've gone something like Ricky Gervais's on stage gay kiss in Extras... Actually, though that is from knowing the book, pretty much as soon as they move to Memphis, Shug's husband runs off with Squeek, so the husband is already out of the picture. But the show makes it clear to me the two of them are in love, as someone just mentioned, they sing a love duet, they are living together as a couple in Memphis, hence Celie being so upset when Shug wants to have one last fling with a young man just before Celie sings 'I'm here'. And she and Mister have a whole conversation about how much they both loved Shug and again, to me this wasn't a 'what do we love about our friend' kinda convo. As someone else said before, if this was all about two people that weren't of the same sex, nobody would have any doubt about their relationship and feelings for each other. |
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 13:04:41 GMT
I have seen the movie countless times and endured the musical once so I am by no means an expert on the score. I don't know how different either are to the book, but there is no way I'd have ever said Celie was a lesbian, nor do I get the impression she was from Walkers statement. In both she had a single sexual encounter with a woman who showed her affection for the first time in her life and probably gave her a pretty good time in the process, but I don't see how that one encounter makes/made her a lesbian. She had her first enjoyable sexual encounter with a same sex partner like a lot of people have, I don't see how that automatically made her gay. I always assumed that Shug was meant to be the lesbian or bi-sexual character of the piece. I mean she never had another lover at all after her husband and Shug so maybe that is meant to imply she was and although she ends up leaving with Shug maaaaaaany years later, Shug is married to a man so I don't think their relationship went beyond friendship after that. Obviously there may be more in the book but if your only reference to the piece was the film and the musical I would never have taken away that she was a lesbian, so I don't think Seyi can be blamed for thinking the same. I think it's pretty unambiguous in the musical that Celie is attracted to women (whether you want to be pedantic about the possibility of attraction towards men because they don't explicitly rule it out, though they never suggest any either, then sure she could be bisexual but that wouldn't make a difference to Seyi's beliefs on the matter). I mean she and Shug share a love duet. If 'What About Love?' was sung by a man and a woman there would be no question that their relationship was anything less than a romantic one. I guess. It is so throwaway in the movie that maybe I didn't pick up on any further significance in the musical. I mean in the film it is one kissing scene, an off-screen sex scene and then Shug leaves shortly after. Considering the film is nearly 3 hours long it is not given much airtime in the scope of the story. |
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 13:14:44 GMT
She lives with Shug and Shug's husband though, it is not shown or implied that they continued their relationship any further on that level, well not in the film or musical at least. I saw the 'chair' version though not the original so maybe it was different. She auditioned for a small role and was offered the lead, of course she was going to take it. I doubt she gave it any thought beyond the fact she was going to be the star of the show. I imagine opening night would've gone something like Ricky Gervais's on stage gay kiss in Extras... Actually, though that is from knowing the book, pretty much as soon as they move to Memphis, Shug's husband runs off with Squeek, so the husband is already out of the picture. But the show makes it clear to me the two of them are in love, as someone just mentioned, they sing a love duet, they are living together as a couple in Memphis, hence Celie being so upset when Shug wants to have one last fling with a young man just before Celie sings 'I'm here'. And she and Mister have a whole conversation about how much they both loved Shug and again, to me this wasn't a 'what do we love about our friend' kinda convo. As someone else said before, if this was all about two people that weren't of the same sex, nobody would have any doubt about their relationship and feelings for each other. Ah ok, I think I must've missed all that in the musical. I was crammed into an extremely uncomfortable seat and was not feeling it at all. It was hard to work out what was going on as there were no sets, just chairs pinned to a wall. It was all a bit confusing and only having the movie as a reference and with over half of what I was used to storywise missing, I did find it a little harder to follow. It also had 30 minutes cut out of it so maybe some of that stuff went walkies. |
|
5,837 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 4, 2021 13:52:53 GMT
How she would have portrayed the role is of little importance to the case.
Far more important, as others have said, is her online comments and refusal to retract.
The other noteworthy behaviour is the report of what happened when she was in the cast of Little Shop and chose to hide rather than be involved in the Pride celebration that the rest of the cast were working on. That shows how cowardly she is and how unfit she is to work in this industry.
|
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 14:03:18 GMT
How she would have portrayed the role is of little importance to the case. Far more important, as others have said, is her online comments and refusal to retract. The other noteworthy behaviour is the report of what happened when she was in the cast of Little Shop and chose to hide rather than be involved in the Pride celebration that the rest of the cast were working on. That shows how cowardly she is and how unfit she is to work in this industry. I mean she has clearly been brainwashed from birth, is there really any point in hating someone who is so far gone from reality? Why give her that much energy when at the end of the day the only person she is really hurting is herself. I feel sorry for her and her ilk more than anything. I can't imagine living the delusional life these people lead and it's not like after she's dealt with there's not a billion more of her to deal with. |
|
19,774 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 4, 2021 14:10:54 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 14:20:49 GMT
It is so bizarre it sounds like a Trump court case.
|
|
5,837 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by oxfordsimon on Feb 4, 2021 14:40:48 GMT
How she would have portrayed the role is of little importance to the case. Far more important, as others have said, is her online comments and refusal to retract. The other noteworthy behaviour is the report of what happened when she was in the cast of Little Shop and chose to hide rather than be involved in the Pride celebration that the rest of the cast were working on. That shows how cowardly she is and how unfit she is to work in this industry. I mean she has clearly been brainwashed from birth, is there really any point in hating someone who is so far gone from reality? Why give her that much energy when at the end of the day the only person she is really hurting is herself. I feel sorry for her and her ilk more than anything. I can't imagine living the delusional life these people lead and it's not like after she's dealt with there's not a billion more of her to deal with. She certainly has hurt other people by her comments and behaviour. That is the nature of hate speech. She has caused great distress to all those at the Curve by putting them through this. She is a grown adult who is responsible for her own actions. It can't all be laid at the feet of her father. She could have moved beyond her childhood indoctrination but no, she doubled down on it. |
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 14:48:46 GMT
I mean she has clearly been brainwashed from birth, is there really any point in hating someone who is so far gone from reality? Why give her that much energy when at the end of the day the only person she is really hurting is herself. I feel sorry for her and her ilk more than anything. I can't imagine living the delusional life these people lead and it's not like after she's dealt with there's not a billion more of her to deal with. She certainly has hurt other people by her comments and behaviour. That is the nature of hate speech. She has caused great distress to all those at the Curve by putting them through this. She is a grown adult who is responsible for her own actions. It can't all be laid at the feet of her father. She could have moved beyond her childhood indoctrination but no, she doubled down on it. Unfortunately most of them are like that, nothing will ever get in the way of spreading the word of God. One tear in their beliefs and it all comes crumbling down and they'll fight tooth and nail to stop that from ever happening. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 15:48:13 GMT
It's interesting that she says it was never made clear to her that it was a lesbian role, but by her own admission she didn't read the script and didn't tell the producers that it was a "red line" for her. Yet she's expecting them to have somehow known that it would be an issue for her, and that once she was aware then they should just suck it up and let her rewrite the character to meet with her approval. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 15:51:39 GMT
How she would have portrayed the role is of little importance to the case. Far more important, as others have said, is her online comments and refusal to retract. The other noteworthy behaviour is the report of what happened when she was in the cast of Little Shop and chose to hide rather than be involved in the Pride celebration that the rest of the cast were working on. That shows how cowardly she is and how unfit she is to work in this industry. I mean she has clearly been brainwashed from birth, is there really any point in hating someone who is so far gone from reality? Why give her that much energy when at the end of the day the only person she is really hurting is herself. I feel sorry for her and her ilk more than anything. I can't imagine living the delusional life these people lead and it's not like after she's dealt with there's not a billion more of her to deal with. It is a shame how differently this could have played out. Perhaps her involvement in musical theatre, this role specifically, could have actually led to positive progression. Unfortunately the way it's been mis-managed and the vitriol that's poured out as a result will only serve to cause further damage. I read a fascinating book on diversity recently (Rebel Ideas, if anyones interested) that spoke about Derek Black, the American son of devout White Supremacists and godson of leader of the American White Nationalists, who was brainwashed from birth into the supremacist mindset and at one point looked set to fall into leadership of American white nationalism. Until he went to university. It was there he left the echo chamber he'd grown up in and met people from different cultures, different backgrounds, who embraced him ultimately leading to him denouncing white nationalism and White Supremacy. People can change and adapt their beliefs, indoctrination is bi-directional. Not defending her earlier comments but Omooba could have had different experiences if such a monsterous wall wasn't built up against her for her to climb. As such now she will never be in a position where positive conversations can be had, that's sad. |
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 16:01:09 GMT
I mean she has clearly been brainwashed from birth, is there really any point in hating someone who is so far gone from reality? Why give her that much energy when at the end of the day the only person she is really hurting is herself. I feel sorry for her and her ilk more than anything. I can't imagine living the delusional life these people lead and it's not like after she's dealt with there's not a billion more of her to deal with. It is a shame how differently this could have played out. Perhaps her involvement in musical theatre, this role specifically, could have actually led to positive progression. Unfortunately the way it's been mis-managed and the vitriol that's poured out as a result will only serve to cause further damage. I read a fascinating book on diversity recently (Rebel Ideas, if anyones interested) that spoke about Derek Black, the American son of devout White Supremacists and godson of leader of the American White Nationalists, who was brainwashed from birth into the supremacist mindset and at one point looked set to fall into leadership of American white nationalism. Until he went to university. It was there he left the echo chamber he'd grown up in and met people from different cultures, different backgrounds, who embraced him ultimately leading to him denouncing white nationalism and White Supremacy. People can change and adapt their beliefs, indoctrination is bi-directional. Not defending her earlier comments but Omooba could have had different experiences if such a monsterous wall wasn't built up against her for her to climb. As such now she will never be in a position where positive conversations can be had, that's sad. It doesn't sit right with me, the whole thing is too weird. Any decent legal team would tell her she has no hope of winning this, but yet she still keeps going with it. It doesn't make sense. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2021 16:58:47 GMT
It is a shame how differently this could have played out. Perhaps her involvement in musical theatre, this role specifically, could have actually led to positive progression. Unfortunately the way it's been mis-managed and the vitriol that's poured out as a result will only serve to cause further damage. I read a fascinating book on diversity recently (Rebel Ideas, if anyones interested) that spoke about Derek Black, the American son of devout White Supremacists and godson of leader of the American White Nationalists, who was brainwashed from birth into the supremacist mindset and at one point looked set to fall into leadership of American white nationalism. Until he went to university. It was there he left the echo chamber he'd grown up in and met people from different cultures, different backgrounds, who embraced him ultimately leading to him denouncing white nationalism and White Supremacy. People can change and adapt their beliefs, indoctrination is bi-directional. Not defending her earlier comments but Omooba could have had different experiences if such a monsterous wall wasn't built up against her for her to climb. As such now she will never be in a position where positive conversations can be had, that's sad. It doesn't sit right with me, the whole thing is too weird. Any decent legal team would tell her she has no hope of winning this, but yet she still keeps going with it. It doesn't make sense. She doesn't have a legal team, that's the problem in that regard. Her representative isn't a lawyer. |
|
|
|
Post by ThereWillBeSun on Feb 4, 2021 17:34:49 GMT
'Ms Omooba is being represented by the legal arm of Christian Concern, an organisation co-founded by her father, pastor Ade Omooba MBE.' ...A pastor who advocates for gay conversion therapy and believes being gay is a sin. The apple, certainly does not fall far from the tree. |
|
290 posts
|
Post by southstreet on Feb 4, 2021 17:37:57 GMT
I suspect a lot of this trial is actually not down to her but down to her father/Christian Concern pushing this as it will help their agenda regardless of the outcome.
It they win, it’ll help other ‘Christians’ suing for unfair dismissal or breach of contract if they get sacked for discriminating against others based on the selective way they ‘interpret’ the bible (I am sure she didn’t object to wearing mixed fibres which she will undoubtably had to wear in some costumes during previous jobs).
And if they lose they can once again play victim and have another poster case about how the world is supposedly discriminating Christians based on their beliefs. It’s a great publicity stunt for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by ThereWillBeSun on Feb 4, 2021 17:39:28 GMT
I suspect a lot of this trial is actually not down to her but down to her father/Christian Concern pushing this as it will help their agenda regardless of the outcome. It they win, it’ll help other ‘Christians’ suing for unfair dismissal or breach of contract if they get sacked for discriminating against others based on the selective way they ‘interpret’ the bible (I am sure she didn’t object to wearing mixed fibres which she will undoubtably had to wear in some costumes during previous jobs). And if they lose they can once again play victim and have another poster case about how the world is supposedly discriminating Christians based on their beliefs. It’s a great publicity stunt for them. They are vile. But again. She has a brain (supposedly) - she could at any point stop this. I don't believe for one second that she is being forced into this. |
|
|
|
Post by intoanewlife on Feb 4, 2021 19:23:42 GMT
I suspect a lot of this trial is actually not down to her but down to her father/Christian Concern pushing this as it will help their agenda regardless of the outcome. It they win, it’ll help other ‘Christians’ suing for unfair dismissal or breach of contract if they get sacked for discriminating against others based on the selective way they ‘interpret’ the bible (I am sure she didn’t object to wearing mixed fibres which she will undoubtably had to wear in some costumes during previous jobs). And if they lose they can once again play victim and have another poster case about how the world is supposedly discriminating Christians based on their beliefs. It’s a great publicity stunt for them. They are vile. But again. She has a brain (supposedly) - she could at any point stop this. I don't believe for one second that she is being forced into this. I can't imagine she would be very hard to manipulate at this point. |
|
19,774 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Feb 4, 2021 19:31:42 GMT
I wonder how she felt about the gay kiss in Spring Awakening at the Hope Mill. Fortunately for her I don’t think she was on stage for that bit, maybe she managed to put her fingers in her ears and go ‘la la la’ every time it happened in rehearsal too. I wonder how she has interacted with all of the gay actors creatives she’s met so far. It must be hard going around believing they’re all liars.
|
|
4,156 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Feb 4, 2021 19:31:52 GMT
She claimed that she wasn't on stage when the kiss happened in the previous production she was in, so she didn't know about it. It was then pointed out she WAS on stage at the time, to which she says she was at the side of the stage and "wasn't always looking" at what was going on. So. Cast iron case she has there...... Still, does a character having one same sex kiss in a show make them a lesbian? I am not getting this argument because it is pretty ambiguous in both of the mediums she watched it in. There is no ambiguity about this in the book - which is a first-person narration - and there is no reason for there to be ambiguity on stage of the production is well-directed, no matter how many kisses there are. She is deeply attracted to Shug, and she falls in love with her, long before they have sex. The sex she has with her husband is repulsive to her. |
|
4,156 posts
|
Post by kathryn on Feb 4, 2021 19:45:56 GMT
I know we are all trained to try and give the ‘benefit of the doubt’ to people, but in some cases there is no doubt.
She has to have known that the character is gay. How can you possibly be cast in a musical twice and not know that - it can’t fail to surface in research, in rehearsal, or just in cast chitchat and banter.
How you can actually contemplate a career in musical theatre and be anti-gay is mind-boggling, but I am willing to bet there was a huge degree of compartmentalising going on. As long as she could hide away for Pride and tell her father that the character is straight, she can manage the cognitive dissonance.
What we see in this suit is what happens when the compartments are collapsed. She has chosen her father and his church over her untenable career and is now looking for compensation for her career.
|
|
1,124 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by sph on Feb 4, 2021 19:56:17 GMT
What's the justification for the amount of money she is suing for? I always think people sue for such absurd amounts that bear no relation to their case. Sort of a "My neighbour played music too loud so I want £50k for loss of sleep."
How is there a £128,000 price on a £4,000 job?
|
|
5,053 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by Phantom of London on Feb 4, 2021 20:53:57 GMT
It is hard to fathom out how she could be ignorant and naive of that kiss in the book, film and musical. For no other reason the story centres on this, as it is just more than a same sex kiss. It also marks a big turning point in the story where she is liberated and not subjugated by her physical abusive & rapist husband & paedophile father. That same sex kiss was a master stroke of authorship by Alice Walker as it was always more than just a kiss, it was a kind of metaphor. That is why Ms Walker won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, because she wrote one of the best ever books and a literature classic.
It is like saying you didn’t realise the reason why the Phantom wore a mask, because of his disfigured face.
She is either completely naive or a liar and she didn’t come across as being naive in her tweets.
|
|
