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Post by david on Jul 4, 2019 20:14:33 GMT
If they expect me to do any dancing they can do one. I’ll get involved in audience participation, but no dancing! Hope you're having a great time david  Lovely, a pre-show rave 😡. I’ve definitely not signed up for this on Saturday afternoon and I’m definitely not doing the preshow now. Oh well, it’s going to be a experience if nothing else. At least I’ve got BOM at the Palace to look forward to in the evening. |
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Post by Snciole on Jul 4, 2019 23:43:41 GMT
He is now complaining that someone called them out for mentioning dead parents He really doesn't get that this is ALL making him look bad. Oh hai! That is me. I love Idris. He is my dream man but I am finding it very hard to reconcile the fantasy and reality of a man who has been so self-aware of his race, his place within British entertainment, as a father of a daughter to treat his friend, to treat women with such disrespect because at some point KKA and Idris lost a parent. It is disrespectful to their fathers, their mothers, anyone who has experienced grief without the privilege of their status and to Toni and Sarah, who have not blamed their struggles for why the relationship broke down I hit a nerve and maybe I should have been more considerant to Elba's loss but the arrogance of their statement is astounding. You might not be Weinstein but you are not the good guys. |
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Post by Seriously on Jul 5, 2019 0:45:28 GMT
So, just so I can get this right.... you, Snciole tweeted someone that you don't actually know, and told him he couldn't mention his dead father?
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Post by Snciole on Jul 5, 2019 4:18:56 GMT
He is very welcome to mention his late father, as is KKA but using their grief is not a Get Out of Jail Free card to be used against collective criticism. Idris mentioning never visiting his father's birthplace is waffle frankly in a statement that should be focused on the business decision. He seems to suggest two women, his former co-workers, voicing their upset impacts on his grief from many years ago.
MIF nor YV in their statement with Green Door attribute their decision to the grief of KKA or IE. It a cheap and unnecessary tactic as they lose control of the situation and narrative.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 6:41:29 GMT
He is very welcome to mention his late father, as is KKA but using their grief is not a Get Out of Jail Free card to be used against collective criticism. Idris mentioning never visiting his father's birthplace is waffle frankly in a statement that should be focused on the business decision. He seems to suggest two women, his former co-workers, voicing their upset impacts on his grief from many years ago. MIF nor YV in their statement with Green Door attribute their decision to the grief of KKA or IE. It a cheap and unnecessary tactic as they lose control of the situation and narrative. Yeah, I mean, I doubt you would have just randomly tweeted him about his parents otherwise! Once you bring something into a discussion, it will get discussed. |
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Post by jadnoop on Jul 5, 2019 8:35:39 GMT
When you suggest that someone else did or said something “in order to X” you’re talking about their underlying motivations behind the words; not just the words themselves. Being 100% sure on that is mind reader territory. Well, no. All I have to go on is what they chose to write, which doesn't leave a great deal of room for interpretation. Both posts read as being rather condescending to the two women, and the tone of both posts is one of self-righteous self-justification. Both Mr. Kwei-Armah and Mr. Elba chose, one must assume, the statements they put together in response to Ms. Allen-Martin and Ms. Henley's Medium article, and both of them invoked the trauma of bereavement in a way that leaves little room for any conclusion other than that they were playing for sympathy. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not minimising the impact of a bereavement. I'm in the middle of it myself, and it's not a pleasant experience. It is also, though, absolutely NOT a mitigating factor in a case like this, and it is simply not relevant to the question of whether Ms. Allen-Martin and Ms. Henley's work has been used without proper credit/payment.
Look, I'm not trying to get into a long argument with a stranger on the internet. Clearly this is a difference of opinion that doesn't have a conclusion. And it's certainly not my intention to have a go at someone in the middle of very difficult times. So my apologies and I'm bowing out of this thread. |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Jul 5, 2019 8:55:57 GMT
He is very welcome to mention his late father, as is KKA but using their grief is not a Get Out of Jail Free card to be used against collective criticism. Idris mentioning never visiting his father's birthplace is waffle frankly in a statement that should be focused on the business decision. He seems to suggest two women, his former co-workers, voicing their upset impacts on his grief from many years ago. MIF nor YV in their statement with Green Door attribute their decision to the grief of KKA or IE. It a cheap and unnecessary tactic as they lose control of the situation and narrative. If I could "like" this more times I would. |
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Post by Seriously on Jul 5, 2019 9:15:27 GMT
So, yes, you did tweet someone you have no connection with and tell them when and where they could mention their dead father. It's interesting what Twitter (and people) have become.
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Post by Snciole on Jul 5, 2019 9:43:51 GMT
So, yes, you did tweet someone you have no connection with and tell them when and where they could mention their dead father. It's interesting what Twitter (and people) have become. In the context of the argument that he shouldn't be criticised because he has a dead dad and a lot of unresolved grief, which basically sums up his side of the story. Any points in his argument, including the discrepancies between KKA and his account are up for discussion. Even he acknowledged he shouldn't have mentioned his father in his response to me. The impression I get (I would like to see Tree to find out more) is that death and grief feature heavily. Grief lead to Mi Mandela (which is a good album), KKA's writing was influenced by his dying dad but that subject comes up in PR and other publicity. It shouldn't come up when trying to justify plagarism. |
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Post by Seriously on Jul 5, 2019 10:02:04 GMT
Wow. Well, if you're happy with that.
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Post by Snciole on Jul 5, 2019 10:15:21 GMT
I don't think happy is the right word and I am not policing anyone's Twitter (I may think actions are not right but I wouldn't demand Elba delete his tweet for example) but there is a time and place to being up his father's passing, his continued grief and lack of connection to his father's homeland. That statement was not it. It seems like don't get Twitter. Strangers, friends, enemies interact on there. If you put something in the public domain that might not be the end of the conversation.
In combination with KKA's statement, which SF put much better than me, it looks calculated and not from the heart, I hope they are better advised next time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 10:33:15 GMT
Lets take it away from that digression, and back to the work in question.
4* from Whats on Stage.
I wonder if this was a quick revision to the programme to try appease matters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 10:42:28 GMT
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Post by Snciole on Jul 5, 2019 12:08:14 GMT
Did they make Billington dance!?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 12:25:53 GMT
Nobody puts Billington in the corner
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 5, 2019 12:40:42 GMT
If they expect me to do any dancing they can do one. Billington also mentions the controversy at the start .. This show has the aura of a big event. It helps kickstart the Manchester international festival, is co-created by Idris Elba and Kwame Kwei-Armah, and begins and ends with the audience dancing together as if at a disco. The production has also made the news pages because of a claim by Sarah Henley and Tori Allen-Martin that they conceived the project and were then removed from it. Well david, we now learn that not only will you have to avoid dancing at the start, you will also, somehow, have to avoid dancing at the end. Have fun!  |
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Post by david on Jul 5, 2019 12:45:44 GMT
If they expect me to do any dancing they can do one. Billington also mentions the controversy at the start .. This show has the aura of a big event. It helps kickstart the Manchester international festival, is co-created by Idris Elba and Kwame Kwei-Armah, and begins and ends with the audience dancing together as if at a disco. The production has also made the news pages because of a claim by Sarah Henley and Tori Allen-Martin that they conceived the project and were then removed from it. Well david , we now learn that not only will you have to avoid dancing at the start, you will also, somehow, have to avoid dancing at the end. Have fun! Thanks! I can safely say that with my shockingly bad dancing ability, i definitely won’t be getting a 10 from Len. I’m now beginning to wonder what I’ve let myself in for tomorrow afternoon. |
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Post by Fleance on Jul 5, 2019 13:27:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 13:46:53 GMT
The New York Times article is an interesting piece with some new info
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Post by Seriously on Jul 5, 2019 14:21:13 GMT
So, yes, you did tweet someone you have no connection with and tell them when and where they could mention their dead father. It's interesting what Twitter (and people) have become. In the context of the argument that he shouldn't be criticised because he has a dead dad and a lot of unresolved grief, which basically sums up his side of the story. Any points in his argument, including the discrepancies between KKA and his account are up for discussion. Even he acknowledged he shouldn't have mentioned his father in his response to me. The impression I get (I would like to see Tree to find out more) is that death and grief feature heavily. Grief lead to Mi Mandela (which is a good album), KKA's writing was influenced by his dying dad but that subject comes up in PR and other publicity. It shouldn't come up when trying to justify plagarism. I think they've both handled it terribly, but I would never ever tweet someone I don't know and tell them they shouldn't be mentioning their grief. People handle grief in many different ways, over vastly different time periods. |
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Post by d'James on Jul 5, 2019 14:23:39 GMT
In the context of the argument that he shouldn't be criticised because he has a dead dad and a lot of unresolved grief, which basically sums up his side of the story. Any points in his argument, including the discrepancies between KKA and his account are up for discussion. Even he acknowledged he shouldn't have mentioned his father in his response to me. The impression I get (I would like to see Tree to find out more) is that death and grief feature heavily. Grief lead to Mi Mandela (which is a good album), KKA's writing was influenced by his dying dad but that subject comes up in PR and other publicity. It shouldn't come up when trying to justify plagarism. I think they've both handled it terribly, but I would never ever tweet someone I don't know and tell them they shouldn't be mentioning their grief. People handle grief in many different ways, over vastly different time periods. You’ve made your point. |
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Post by Seriously on Jul 5, 2019 14:29:04 GMT
I think they've both handled it terribly, but I would never ever tweet someone I don't know and tell them they shouldn't be mentioning their grief. People handle grief in many different ways, over vastly different time periods. You’ve made your point. I'm actually having a grown up conversation. |
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Post by d'James on Jul 5, 2019 14:36:49 GMT
I'm actually having a grown up conversation. If you say so (there’s clearly no point disagreeing with you). |
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Post by Seriously on Jul 5, 2019 14:42:28 GMT
I'm actually having a grown up conversation. If you say so (there’s clearly no point disagreeing with you). If you can't have a grown up conversation, perhaps move along? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2019 14:51:17 GMT
Not an admin but lets stop the bickering.
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