Iconic? Phantom vs. Les Mis

Don't you start, BurlyBeaR. It's bad enough with @theatremonkey!

What I'm actually doing (or not doing) is keeping you in touch with your roots, and let's face it, now you live on the wrong side of the Pennines, it's not as though you've much else to do.

I'll give you credit for Oliver Twist, but I've known about Dracula 🦇 for months, so it's hardly braking news. 🙂

Has anyone ever told you, BurlyBeaR, that you can be quite funny...sometimes? 😄

Jolly tiring it is too, with all that fabric! (And, strictly speaking, it's your cape. If it were mine, it would be much more stylish.)

So I have been thinking about this since last night and mentioned in the Les Mis concert thread that I really feel Les Mis is starting to edge forward and one day will be the winner (to the extent that such a concept is useful) of the most successful musical of all time.

I do think objectively only Les Mis and Phantom can (currently) claim the crown of most successful musical ever. I am referring only to Britain as no idea of the situation worldwide.

Certainly Les Mis seems to be on a roll, and has been ever since the 2009 tour was launched. That breathed new life into the show and indeed into the London version. We had the weekend where both were in London and then the O2 show on the Sunday. Since then it seems the Queen's regularly sold better than Her Maj. And in the last year, the original closing, a new tour (now post cast change), the concert and the re-opening at the re-named Sondheim have really highlighted the success of the show.

Further, the new Les Mis tour has become iconic (not for me AS iconic as the original, but a most worthy successor). The 25th Phantom tour, which I thought was better than often credited on here, has not taken the world by storm in the same way the Les Mis one did.

BUT - the crucial question - is Les Mis BETTER or is it just MARKETED better. Cam Mac is of course linked to both. But few can deny his efforts with Les Mis are greater. Working with ALW on Phantom - it just seems to never get out there in the same way. Cam Mac's love for Les Mis is obvious. For Phantom, less so (certainly now).

As to which is better - I guess it comes down to personal preference. I am a massive ALW nut as anyone who knows me will be well aware. But for some reason Phantom is one of his shows I connect with the least (to be clear, I still love it lol, it's ALW!). I truly wish it was another of ALWs classics that was still in the West End but there we are....

Anyway, three areas where Les Mis wins for me:

The score. I love every note in Les Mis - it is just gorgeous from start to finish. I feel that way re most ALW stuff but sadly not Phantom. Phantom contains some truly incredible songs (Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again/Music Of The Night/All I Ask Of You/Point Of No Return/Think Of Me/Title Song) but some of the linking sections I really don't like at all. "You have come here..../stranger that you dreamt it...../magical lasoo/Don Juan Triumphant...." I find jarring. Total contrast to ALW's next show Aspects of Love where I literally adore every note. And the next one, Sunset in fact.

The production. Agree or disagree with getting rid of the original Les Mis, the new version is FRESH. I personally think Phantom is looking very aged now - effects that were impressive in 1986 just aren't now.

The story. This for me is the biggie. Les Mis is epic. An extraordinary tale spanning years. With central themes of forgiveness and redemption. Human nature at it's best and most raw. Phantom - well, I personally don't feel for any of the main characters. And The Phantom himself - I can never look past the fact that ultimately he is a murderer. And I really struggle to get past that and feel for him....

Still, ALW remains my fave composer of all time. But for me Les Mis would be the winner of Les Mis vs Phantom!

Be fascinated to hear other people's perspectives.

(I have booked the new tour of Phantom for Manchester and Birmingham as sometimes these tours breath new life into old shows and create a new buzz. And for the big musicals audience behaviour seems to be much better out of town - more people who WANT to be there I guess either that tourists ticking it off their list!)