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Post by Oliver on Jun 17, 2022 9:01:04 GMT
The melodies in Cinderella are not "glorious". They're ploddy and predictable, you're never surprised by where they go, and they sit so squarely on the beat that they lose any energy they might have had. The arrangements don't help either being incredibly old fashioned, and if your lead character only has self-pitying whiny ballads, echoed by an equally wimpy leading man your show is dead in the water. Can't just blame the lyricist here when he had nothing inspiring to work with. People always say "predictable!" when they don't like something, it's as old as the hills. It's easy of course since the score has already been composed. I would bet that many of the songs in shows you like could equally be given the same label according to the specifications you use for Cinderella, probably to a much greater extent, but because you like those shows you wouldn't dream of calling the songs predictable. And of course people only think of the score in terms of its constituent parts, the songs, or "tunes" to use the vulgar vernacular, rather than its totality. The greatest songs have an inevitability about them, it's not about surprising the listener constantly by turning in all kinds of crazy directions (which is easier), it's about constructing the perfect melodic arc, something which people who come out with the "predictable" label never seem to be able to do themselves. And it's the opposite of "plodding", the first act in particular never loses its momentum musically, it keeps the attentive listener hooked from the first note to last. |
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Post by cezbear on Jun 17, 2022 9:10:55 GMT
I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so. That might be true for that very specific little group of obstinate, overly tolerant, present-giving stage door fans who attended that performance, but the overall respectful, paying, serious theatre audiences have a different opinion. I think musicbox meant no one was interested in his silly warbles (but don't want to speak for them so shut me up if I'm wrong!). Having heard said warbles, it was self indulgent, all over the place, made no melodic sense, and has done nothing to change my opinion of our Dave. Embarrassing. |
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Post by danb on Jun 17, 2022 9:53:56 GMT
Predictable can also be comfortable and for me was when the show worked best. One person singing a classic ALW/Puccinni ballad. When it tried to be modern or cutting edge it just made me cringe, like your Dad buying inappropriate clothes.
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Post by Oliver on Jun 17, 2022 11:30:21 GMT
Predictable can also be comfortable and for me was when the show worked best. One person singing a classic ALW/Puccinni ballad. When it tried to be modern or cutting edge it just made me cringe, like your Dad buying inappropriate clothes. I see what you mean, I may have been taking "predictable" too literally. I should say I was also being slightly tongue in cheek in my reply to Karlosar, although the points I made are ones I hold to. |
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Post by karloscar on Jun 17, 2022 11:44:24 GMT
The melodies in Cinderella are not "glorious". They're ploddy and predictable, you're never surprised by where they go, and they sit so squarely on the beat that they lose any energy they might have had. The arrangements don't help either being incredibly old fashioned, and if your lead character only has self-pitying whiny ballads, echoed by an equally wimpy leading man your show is dead in the water. Can't just blame the lyricist here when he had nothing inspiring to work with. People always say "predictable!" when they don't like something, it's as old as the hills. It's easy of course since the score has already been composed. I would bet that many of the songs in shows you like could equally be given the same label according to the specifications you use for Cinderella, probably to a much greater extent, but because you like those shows you wouldn't dream of calling the songs predictable. And of course people only think of the score in terms of its constituent parts, the songs, or "tunes" to use the vulgar vernacular, rather than its totality. The greatest songs have an inevitability about them, it's not about surprising the listener constantly by turning in all kinds of crazy directions (which is easier), it's about constructing the perfect melodic arc, something which people who come out with the "predictable" label never seem to be able to do themselves. And it's the opposite of "plodding", the first act in particular never loses its momentum musically, it keeps the attentive listener hooked from the first note to last. What a load of pretentious tosh. Even if you are being tongue in cheek, "perfect melodic arc" my arse! |
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Post by musicbox on Jun 17, 2022 12:16:45 GMT
I was there and the sad truth is that he didn't sing the dots, but the audience gave zero f**** when he was doing so. That might be true for that very specific little group of obstinate, overly tolerant, present-giving stage door fans who attended that performance, but the overall respectful, paying, serious theatre audiences have a different opinion. I think I worded my post badly, I was trying to say the audience didn’t care how many runs he added because his part was so minimal. It was extremely cringe to see him try to be the main character next to such talent with bigger parts. |
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Post by alwfan on Jun 17, 2022 16:11:55 GMT
It was interesting to watch her reactions when Laurence read the letter and when everyone booed. Very different from Carrie. Even Ivano seemed to be more in line with VHB. She also seemed to nod and agree when he said not to assume that ALW is the villain. |
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Post by musicbox on Jun 17, 2022 17:19:26 GMT
It was interesting to watch her reactions when Laurence read the letter and when everyone booed. Very different from Carrie. Even Ivano seemed to be more in line with VHB. She also seemed to nod and agree when he said not to assume that ALW is the villain. Yeah Victoria has mentioned a few times on social media that she is really grateful to ALW because he allowed her to have an alternate on Sunday matinees, giving her more time with her young daughters, so won’t bash him and would happily work on another contract for him. She’s also hinted that we don’t know the full story, so I suppose we’ll never know! I can only imagine how infuriating younger prima donna ensembles must be to her and Rebecca Trehearn. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:28:07 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year. |
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Post by inthenose on Jun 17, 2022 17:30:19 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year. Are you attempting to make this into a social justice issue, rather than it being a rubbish show with some very, very unprofessional people in it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:46:07 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year. Are you attempting to make this into a social justice issue, rather than it being a rubbish show with some very, very unprofessional people in it? What no. I'm saying that a homophobe is using Cinderella closing early as an example of people not supporting the LGBTQI+ Community. What they said: It's all gotten a bit mental, Andrew Lloyd Webbers version of Cinderella where the Prince runs off with another man shut audience for it. An all female cast for a Jane Austen play where she tells Mr Darcy to **** off just aren't highbrow enough to appreciate it, apparently.Cinderella closed because it wasn't very good in my opinion not because of a gay sub-plot. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 17:53:01 GMT
News from home (Ireland) is that transphobia and homophobia is rearing it's ugly head again. Our Dublin Pride ended its media partnership with RTE, the state broadcaster, after they platformed T.E.R.F.S. for three days. This has caused a backlash. I went on a Irish forum to read what they were saying about Pride, I'm not a member and couldn't be bothered joining but there was a random comment in the middle of the thread that blamed Prince Charming being gay as the reason Cinderella closed. Like WTF. www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201890/#Comment_119201890I hate stupid. If I joined to comment I know i'd just be making myself ill. Back home has had Self-id for 7 years no problem, this is completely imported from here and friends back home are scared, two men beheaded another blinded, multiple beatings and that's just this year. Are you attempting to make this into a social justice issue, rather than it being a rubbish show with some very, very unprofessional people in it? I don't think Bombshell was doing that at all, just observing that some say that's why it failed and that it's a ridiculous notion. |
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Post by richey on Jun 17, 2022 19:17:39 GMT
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 17, 2022 19:28:58 GMT
Major eye roll.
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Post by cezbear on Jun 17, 2022 19:29:40 GMT
It was interesting to watch her reactions when Laurence read the letter and when everyone booed. Very different from Carrie. Even Ivano seemed to be more in line with VHB. She also seemed to nod and agree when he said not to assume that ALW is the villain. I think VHB & Ivano have both made a real effort not to jump on the bandwagon with the rest of the cast and keep it professional. I don't think I saw even a flicker from an otherwise very emotional Ivano during the letter reading. Both strike me as grateful for the opportunities they've had (Ivano being in his west end debut and VHB being able to have her Sunday shows off) and their attitudes are a real contrast to some. Georgina O also, actually.
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Post by Jon on Jun 17, 2022 19:30:56 GMT
I don't want to come across as callous but surely if you're an actor, you know it's not the most secure profession financially and it sucks that a show you're in closes but that part and parcel of the industry. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 20:05:10 GMT
I feel like people have lost all common sense and logic in the last couple of years.
Anyone with even a remote interest in theatre knows shows close early sometimes. Also the cast will have known cinderella wasn't exactly a hit. And any job in any sector can end unexpectedly. This just seems like taking advantage of the negative headlines for self promotion.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 17, 2022 20:13:13 GMT
The word is “entitlement”.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jun 17, 2022 22:52:19 GMT
Dave has got a new gig: STOP PRESS: @rodneyvubya, who recently appeared in @alwcinderella in the West End, has joined the cast of this year's first Tonight at the Musicals concert. The performance will take place at @cromerchurch on Tuesday 12th July 2022 at 7.30pm. Tickets: t.co/iV0dbMdeAU. t.co/wVOIZw5Tn0 |
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Post by robertb213 on Jun 17, 2022 23:00:59 GMT
Dave has got a new gig: STOP PRESS: @rodneyvubya, who recently appeared in @alwcinderella in the West End, has joined the cast of this year's first Tonight at the Musicals concert. The performance will take place at @cromerchurch on Tuesday 12th July 2022 at 7.30pm. Tickets: t.co/iV0dbMdeAU. t.co/wVOIZw5Tn0Do Jon and Craig know? 🤣 |
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Post by lolalou on Jun 17, 2022 23:22:06 GMT
Dave has got a new gig: STOP PRESS: @rodneyvubya, who recently appeared in @alwcinderella in the West End, has joined the cast of this year's first Tonight at the Musicals concert. The performance will take place at @cromerchurch on Tuesday 12th July 2022 at 7.30pm. Tickets: t.co/iV0dbMdeAU. t.co/wVOIZw5Tn0The only ‘cast’ member from this concert I’ve heard of is him - and for all the wrong reasons.... |
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Post by musicbox on Jun 17, 2022 23:30:02 GMT
I don’t want to sound bad here, but as someone who grew up in a council estate and currently trying to make it through the crazy performance industry, I find it extremely difficult to feel sorry for the daughter of a very famous presenter moaning about not being able to afford a house. In saying that, I really enjoyed Georgina in the show - she was consistently on great form every time I seen her and took hardly any time off compared to others. |
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Post by d'James on Jun 17, 2022 23:39:14 GMT
Dave has got a new gig: STOP PRESS: @rodneyvubya, who recently appeared in @alwcinderella in the West End, has joined the cast of this year's first Tonight at the Musicals concert. The performance will take place at @cromerchurch on Tuesday 12th July 2022 at 7.30pm. Tickets: t.co/iV0dbMdeAU. t.co/wVOIZw5Tn0What dots is he going to sing? The ones written? |
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Post by stagebyte on Jun 17, 2022 23:50:07 GMT
Dave has got a new gig: STOP PRESS: @rodneyvubya, who recently appeared in @alwcinderella in the West End, has joined the cast of this year's first Tonight at the Musicals concert. The performance will take place at @cromerchurch on Tuesday 12th July 2022 at 7.30pm. Tickets: t.co/iV0dbMdeAU. t.co/wVOIZw5Tn0What dots is he going to sing? The ones written? Cromer Church in Norfolk is a long way from the bright lights of the West End. The audience will give zero f**** They won’t know who anyone is either: The promise of west end ‘stars’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting there |
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Post by cezbear on Jun 18, 2022 5:58:15 GMT
Fly high, Rodney.
I didn't realise Georgina Castle was going to be staying on, was it just her and VHB set to continue?
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