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Post by inthenose on Jun 13, 2022 7:21:15 GMT
On the positive side, I'm told he can dance a bit - in the interest of a balanced assessment.
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Post by ceebee on Jun 13, 2022 8:08:43 GMT
That person sounds like an absolute nightmare.
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Post by spathzthecat on Jun 13, 2022 8:27:39 GMT
Really? I was outside the stage door area for about an hour, no removal vans were there. One transit van unloaded some stuff. Parker street was chocked with people, cars bikes and stuff were having trouble driving through the crowd. The dock isn't at the stage door at the New London... Hi The line for autographs went around the block, they may have been in Macklin Street. When I saw Cats being ripped out they were using the stage door as well. |
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Post by dan28 on Jun 13, 2022 8:29:42 GMT
I wonder what Oliver makes of all this... Thank you for asking. It's not a great letter and his words weren't well chosen. I expect it was rushed at the last minute. However, it's clear to me that what he was referring to when he said "costly mistake" was opening at the time they did, not the show itself. If you look at the show from a commercial standpoint then you could also make the argument that the show itself was a costly mistake, but I don't think that's what he meant. That would be to reduce musicals to little more than commercial enterprises. The odds of a pandemic that strikes when you planned a show can never be called a mistake. It is called bad luck. That given has nothing to do with a mistake. He is blaming the pandemic. So to call the random schedule/planning a mistake would make no sense. In any case, I am glad he calls the show a mistake. Costly or not. I think it is important that he acknowledges that. The question is, does he call the show a mistake because it flopped financially, or because he realizes it was very poorly written? Given the fact what he did to other shows lately (Phantom) it is probably the first option. Also, other shows still play and will continue to play so it is not just pandemic and government. |
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Post by lolalou on Jun 13, 2022 8:33:21 GMT
That certain cast member - what an absolute card. It's all so funny, he's so brave, big and clever sticking it to the man! I can't wait to see him in his next big leading role, which he'll get - he is a company manager's dream! Coming soon to a Starbucks near you. He had six official warnings. Three final warnings. THREE FINAL WARNINGS. Well, the crew you treated like ****, the people fitting your mics, the people calling your cues, the people who wanted to drop tabs on your head. Everyone hates you. He was unsackable, short of a single gross misconduct incident which they couldn't get him on. All the disciplinaries and "improvement plans" doesn't make it easier to sack someone, especially certain individuals. Loathed by all backstage. Three final warnings? Sounds like weak management. Isn’t the idea you go after what would be the next infringement after the first final warning? |
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Post by lolalou on Jun 13, 2022 8:35:31 GMT
Apparently he’s going to tell his story at some point.
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Post by dan28 on Jun 13, 2022 8:47:10 GMT
The issue is Laurence can't say no to ALW - as he produces the show, owns the theatre and has written the music. If ALW presents a song that's derivative, bland, banal or something we've heard before - he can't exactly tell him to go back to the drawing board with it like Hal Prince would, for example. Laurence probably has the most shows on in the west end of any director - but they're mostly re-hashes... good on him though, if he's found his niche. I didn't mind the direction of School of Rock. ALW Just needs someone to tell him to re-write material at times - as opposed to him messing around with his music team and probably writing down the first thing that comes into his head and sending it off to have lyrics forced into the melody. As usual ALW has blamed the failure of a show on everything apart from his ability to write a strong score. Covid, cast, government, design, direction - whatever... it's never the fact that his music is weak. Absolute nonsense. Hal Prince could not make ALW do anything that he didn't agree to, not when it came to the music. He persuaded ALW and Tim Rice to drop a song from Evita, big deal, and maybe tone down the rock element in Phantom. And you characterise that as ALW being completely subservient to the director. And your remarks "derivative, bland, banal' mean absolutely nothing, they are merely vague unsupported assertions by you. Oliver, this is not about "subservient" or "ego". This is about the fact that Andrew clearly needs people around him that question his choices and confront him, and those people are saving the quality of his music and shows. You see how it goes very wrong when those people are not there, when there are only yes-people. We see that in Cinderella now, and we also see that Andrew is ruining his older shows such as Phantom, as soon as those people are no longer there. |
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Post by steve10086 on Jun 13, 2022 9:15:36 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Hal Prince could not make ALW do anything that he didn't agree to, not when it came to the music. He persuaded ALW and Tim Rice to drop a song from Evita, big deal, and maybe tone down the rock element in Phantom. And you characterise that as ALW being completely subservient to the director. And your remarks "derivative, bland, banal' mean absolutely nothing, they are merely vague unsupported assertions by you. Oliver, this is not about "subservient" or "ego". This is about the fact that Andrew clearly needs people around him that question his choices and confront him, and those people are saving the quality of his music and shows. You see how it goes very wrong when those people are not there, when there are only yes-people. We see that in Cinderella now, and we also see that Andrew is ruining his older shows such as Phantom, as soon as those people are no longer there. This is so true. Musical theatre is famously the most collaborative art form, yet ALW insists on controlling everything. And the results are plain to see. Well, not anymore, because it’s closed!! |
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Post by Oliver on Jun 13, 2022 9:20:04 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Hal Prince could not make ALW do anything that he didn't agree to, not when it came to the music. He persuaded ALW and Tim Rice to drop a song from Evita, big deal, and maybe tone down the rock element in Phantom. And you characterise that as ALW being completely subservient to the director. And your remarks "derivative, bland, banal' mean absolutely nothing, they are merely vague unsupported assertions by you. Oliver, this is not about "subservient" or "ego". This is about the fact that Andrew clearly needs people around him that question his choices and confront him, and those people are saving the quality of his music and shows. You see how it goes very wrong when those people are not there, when there are only yes-people. We see that in Cinderella now, and we also see that Andrew is ruining his older shows such as Phantom, as soon as those people are no longer there. I agree with the point, I have for a long time thought that he should choose better collaborators. However, this doesn't mean we should undermine his contribution to his most successful shows (actually a contribution far more difficult than all other creative elements put together) and put his collaborators on pedestals and try to make out that they are the ones who are responsible and that they should get all the credit. Hal Prince was a fantastic director and I wish he would work with a director like him again, but it's not reasonable to suggest ALW was like "Anything you say Hal" at every turn (as the other poster was implying), no way. ALW wouldn't make any changes to the music that he didn't agree to. Also, Hal Prince has often praised ALW to the hilt as far as his musical talents are concerned. |
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Post by ladidah on Jun 13, 2022 9:22:02 GMT
Goodness me, you would have thought he had the star role.
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Post by musicbox on Jun 13, 2022 9:22:39 GMT
I can’t be bothered multi quoting, but in regards to my comments about the vans - I’m very aware that it’s standard practice to get the set out when the show is over, but for some reason I expected them to wait until Monday morning yesterday as I’ve seen before with shows that close on a matinee, as logistically it makes more sense to have the full day to work with rather than a few hours on a Sunday night, but obviously I was wrong.
The two grey vans pulled up right outside the main entrance and the crowd had to move to accommodate them…so if you didn’t see them I’m not sure what to say.
I also have a photo that I took to show a friend who didn’t believe me about how long the que was, and you can clearly see the vans in the end of the shot. I say that because it was mildly suggested that I made it up by another member, which slightly bothers me as I’m a very honest person and wouldn’t lie about something so trivial.
Anyway, I’m glad some of you like my write up! I had a great day overall and it was so nice to meet Carrie.
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Post by musicbox on Jun 13, 2022 9:28:20 GMT
Excellent writeup musicbox. I also noticed Rodney's antics being dragged back and was appalled. I will be happy for him to be forgotten after this, he must be an absolute nightmare to work with Thank you! I was literally mortified when he had to be pulled back to his place by a cast member, you could tell they are just over his acting up. I also found it quite hilarious how he was standing outside the theatre with massive big eye sunglasses on after the show as if he was Whitney Houston, literally everyone was waiting for Carrie and he looked like a plum trying to attract attention. Victoria literally walks out with a head scarf on and continues to the tube station, she actually said on Instagram if you want a photo please come up and let me know or otherwise I’ll assume no one’s bothered. |
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Post by fiyero on Jun 13, 2022 9:46:39 GMT
Victoria literally walks out with a head scarf on and continues to the tube station, she actually said on Instagram if you want a photo please come up and let me know or otherwise I’ll assume no one’s bothered. I saw the massive queue and was intrigued whether other cast members would walk along it or just assume everyone was there for Carrie. No offence to Carrie but If I was stage dooring I'd rather see Victoria! |
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Post by marob on Jun 13, 2022 9:46:58 GMT
Excellent writeup musicbox. I also noticed Rodney's antics being dragged back and was appalled. I will be happy for him to be forgotten after this, he must be an absolute nightmare to work with Thank you! I was literally mortified when he had to be pulled back to his place by a cast member, you could tell they are just over his acting up. I also found it quite hilarious how he was standing outside the theatre with massive big eye sunglasses on after the show as if he was Whitney Houston, literally everyone was waiting for Carrie and he looked like a plum trying to attract attention. Victoria literally walks out with a head scarf on and continues to the tube station, she actually said on Instagram if you want a photo please come up and let me know or otherwise I’ll assume no one’s bothered. I knew going in that he was an attention seeker, so when he sashayed to the front of the stage, right where I was sitting, I thought it was quite funny when he was yanked back into place. |
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Post by stagebyte on Jun 13, 2022 9:51:28 GMT
Thank you! I was literally mortified when he had to be pulled back to his place by a cast member, you could tell they are just over his acting up. I also found it quite hilarious how he was standing outside the theatre with massive big eye sunglasses on after the show as if he was Whitney Houston, literally everyone was waiting for Carrie and he looked like a plum trying to attract attention. Victoria literally walks out with a head scarf on and continues to the tube station, she actually said on Instagram if you want a photo please come up and let me know or otherwise I’ll assume no one’s bothered. He sashayed to the front of the stage right where I was sitting so I thought it was quite funny when he was yanked back into place. Who pulled him back? Give them a medal |
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Post by danb on Jun 13, 2022 9:53:46 GMT
Apparently he’s going to tell his story at some point. "Dante Cadbury" is the name he gave to his character in the show... Perhaps he has a good team leader hourly rate to go to in Lidl? |
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Post by ladidah on Jun 13, 2022 10:01:30 GMT
his character didn't even have a name!?
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Post by scarpia on Jun 13, 2022 10:08:59 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Hal Prince could not make ALW do anything that he didn't agree to, not when it came to the music. He persuaded ALW and Tim Rice to drop a song from Evita, big deal, and maybe tone down the rock element in Phantom. And you characterise that as ALW being completely subservient to the director. And your remarks "derivative, bland, banal' mean absolutely nothing, they are merely vague unsupported assertions by you. Oliver, this is not about "subservient" or "ego". This is about the fact that Andrew clearly needs people around him that question his choices and confront him, and those people are saving the quality of his music and shows. You see how it goes very wrong when those people are not there, when there are only yes-people. We see that in Cinderella now, and we also see that Andrew is ruining his older shows such as Phantom, as soon as those people are no longer there. Oliver, you misrepresent the influence a director like Hal Prince has/had. Evita was a special case since, like Cinderella, it was a concept album first. Hal rightly concluded that, since it is entirely exposition, 'The Lady's Got Potential' would not be right for a staged piece and required something that showed Perón's rise to power in a dramatic way (he also got Rice to improve a few lyrics). But with Phantom, a LOT changed - just look at the difference between the show's Sydmonton presentation and the final product. Hal would have been there to say what the show ought to sound like, where a song should go, where a song should be omitted, and, in many cases, would have told ALW his opinion (which ALW respected) that certain writing wasn't good enough. For example, 'Prima Donna' is only there because Hal told ALW that its predecessor, 'Papers', was not good enough. With Cinderella, ALW wrote the score, handed it to Connor, and expected him to stage it as is. Connor is not a man to tell ALW that certain parts of the writing were weak or could be improved. |
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Post by inthenose on Jun 13, 2022 10:15:56 GMT
Goodness me, you would have thought he had the star role. He has the starring role in my heart ❤️ |
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Post by max on Jun 13, 2022 10:17:54 GMT
Oliver, this is not about "subservient" or "ego". This is about the fact that Andrew clearly needs people around him that question his choices and confront him, and those people are saving the quality of his music and shows. You see how it goes very wrong when those people are not there, when there are only yes-people. We see that in Cinderella now, and we also see that Andrew is ruining his older shows such as Phantom, as soon as those people are no longer there. Oliver, you misrepresent the influence a director like Hal Prince has/had. Evita was a special case since, like Cinderella, it was a concept album first. Hal rightly concluded that, since it is entirely exposition, 'The Lady's Got Potential' would not be right for a staged piece and required something that showed Perón's rise to power in a dramatic way (he also got Rice to improve a few lyrics). But with Phantom, a LOT changed - just look at the difference between the show's Sydmonton presentation and the final product. Hal would have been there to say what the show ought to sound like, where a song should go, where a song should be omitted, and, in many cases, would have told ALW his opinion (which ALW respected) that certain writing wasn't good enough. For example, 'Prima Donna' is only there because Hal told ALW that its predecessor, 'Papers', was not good enough. With Cinderella, ALW wrote the score, handed it to Connor, and expected him to stage it as is. Connor is not a man to tell ALW that certain parts of the writing were weak or could be improved. Hal Prince's early instinct was that he didn't care for 'Dangerous Jade' (later called 'Peron's Latest Flame') - yet that became perhaps his biggest staging triumph of the show (and its Brechtian blocks of people sometimes get credited as a Hal Prince idea which it obviously wasn't). So it's a conversation, not a diktat, or someone being subservient to another. Sometimes each collaborator takes a while to buy into another way of seeing it, but hopefully only rarely feels like 'giving in' or 'losing the argument'. I think we're just questioning if ALW has those people around him, and how genuine that conversation is. Everyone can role play that it's happening, but is it really? |
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Post by stagebyte on Jun 13, 2022 10:21:17 GMT
Some interesting takes
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Post by inthenose on Jun 13, 2022 10:21:37 GMT
Apparently he’s going to tell his story at some point. "Dante Cadbury" is the name he gave to his character in the show... He is henceforth going to be The Milkybar Kid in my head canon and in my future comments about him. |
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Post by cezbear on Jun 13, 2022 10:22:25 GMT
Goodness me, you would have thought he had the star role. He has the starring role in my heart ❤️
I have never quite seen someone embody the phrase 'main character energy' quite so much. I can't imagine how he's been able to get away with that behaviour. I think I've said it before but I also think the echo chamber of fellow performers on socials and probably in person has a lot to answer for here. If your peers are constantly calling you fabulous and yass queening at you, you're going to assume you're the hero of the piece at all times (as opposed to a pain in the rear ensemble member who is a poor cover of a small role).
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Post by inthenose on Jun 13, 2022 10:24:14 GMT
Oliver, this is not about "subservient" or "ego". This is about the fact that Andrew clearly needs people around him that question his choices and confront him, and those people are saving the quality of his music and shows. You see how it goes very wrong when those people are not there, when there are only yes-people. We see that in Cinderella now, and we also see that Andrew is ruining his older shows such as Phantom, as soon as those people are no longer there. Oliver, you misrepresent the influence a director like Hal Prince has/had. Evita was a special case since, like Cinderella, it was a concept album first. Hal rightly concluded that, since it is entirely exposition, 'The Lady's Got Potential' would not be right for a staged piece and required something that showed Perón's rise to power in a dramatic way (he also got Rice to improve a few lyrics). But with Phantom, a LOT changed - just look at the difference between the show's Sydmonton presentation and the final product. Hal would have been there to say what the show ought to sound like, where a song should go, where a song should be omitted, and, in many cases, would have told ALW his opinion (which ALW respected) that certain writing wasn't good enough. For example, 'Prima Donna' is only there because Hal told ALW that its predecessor, 'Papers', was not good enough. With Cinderella, ALW wrote the score, handed it to Connor, and expected him to stage it as is. Connor is not a man to tell ALW that certain parts of the writing were weak or could be improved. I loved in the Grandage where they play duck duck goose 🤣 |
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Post by inthenose on Jun 13, 2022 10:29:25 GMT
That certain cast member - what an absolute card. It's all so funny, he's so brave, big and clever sticking it to the man! I can't wait to see him in his next big leading role, which he'll get - he is a company manager's dream! Coming soon to a Starbucks near you. He had six official warnings. Three final warnings. THREE FINAL WARNINGS. Well, the crew you treated like ****, the people fitting your mics, the people calling your cues, the people who wanted to drop tabs on your head. Everyone hates you. He was unsackable, short of a single gross misconduct incident which they couldn't get him on. All the disciplinaries and "improvement plans" doesn't make it easier to sack someone, especially certain individuals. Loathed by all backstage. Three final warnings? Sounds like weak management. Isn’t the idea you go after what would be the next infringement after the first final warning? Some people are unsackable for litigation avoidance reasons. |
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