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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 9:10:39 GMT
I guess you could condemn this to the Brexit thread but the content of this issue goes deeper and wider than that. At the risk of sounding like Im currently wearing a tin-foil hat, I think we need to consider the content of this short Ted Talk summary and wisen up to what we were all subject to and will be again if we don't react.
As an example, I was extremely ill in 2015/16, the vast majority of my FB posts pertained to my health. In the run up to the referendum my facebook feed was subject to countless tailored posts about how the NHS could and would benefit from the UK leaving the EU, to the point that I remember feeling that a leave vote was the only obvious choice. It was only when I had a conversation with some friends, less than a week before the referendum, that they explained the real potential ramifications of a leave result and I was able to amend my views. I'm now sat wondering how many others were subliminally, or more obviously, affected by this.
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Post by londonpostie on May 6, 2019 9:20:20 GMT
Not going to get into too much of that but I would say Facebook is most definitely not a force for good in this world. Fwiw, I bailed out 18 months ago and even now feel relieved. Of course, they keep all your data and refuse to delete it. Another one to bear in mind is Ancestory.com. They promote DNA analysis as a way to identify potential lost relatives around the world. Many feel - academics inc. - that once you send them a DNA sample your entire extended family is in the databases of US agencies forever.
Fitness app data and healthcare insurance offers is another .. that ones more US than NHS.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 6, 2019 10:46:28 GMT
I don’t get any of that sort of political stuff on my Facebook feed. Probably because I’m extremely careful about what I post on there in the first place. My profile is completely locked down, nothing overly personal or political, and I don’t indulge in the sad popularity contest of befriending anyone I haven’t met in real life (and not all of those I have met make it either!). And none of this “friends of friends can see your posts” rubbish either. Why would I want people I don’t know seeing my whereabouts or opinions on anything?
If you started hanging about in real life with people with dodgy politics you’d rightly expect to be exposed to their views and propaganda. It’s just the same with the internet. If you put it out there you’ll get something back. Every action has a reaction etc. If people learned this and stopped exposing themselves to strangers, whether individuals or organisations, things would change. Sadly the genie is probably too far out of the bottle now
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Post by Latecomer on May 6, 2019 11:34:25 GMT
I don’t get any of that sort of political stuff on my Facebook feed. Probably because I’m extremely careful about what I post on there in the first place. My profile is completely locked down, nothing overly personal or political, and I don’t indulge in the sad popularity contest of befriending anyone I haven’t met in real life (and not all of those I have met make it either!). And none of this “friends of friends can see your posts” rubbish either. Why would I want people I don’t know seeing my whereabouts or opinions on anything? If you started hanging about in real life with people with dodgy politics you’d rightly expect to be exposed to their views and propaganda. It’s just the same with the internet. If you put it out there you’ll get something back. Every action has a reaction etc. If people learned this and stopped exposing themselves to strangers, whether individuals or organisations, things would change. Sadly the genie is probably too far out of the bottle now Hope you realise that in the last election you wouldn’t have seen much...unless you lived in a marginal constituency. Most people’s vote don’t count as many seats are safe Tory or safe Labour, so all the “spend” went through marginal places....to work out what adverts were being shown people set up fake Facebook profiles in marginal constituencies so they could “capture” adverts.....I think the fact that we are not all seeing this stuff makes you think it is the “fault” of people if they see stuff! These are paid adverts, so hard to avoid them....are you claiming you never see any adverts on your Facebook feed? Of course it does suit the powers that be to have everyone complacent....you don’t believe it because it’s not true for you! There are also studies done on voting in America years ago showing that nudges on Facebook increase the voting turnout. There is quantifiable proof using mass Facebook data but of course I have yet to meet 1 person who feels any of this applies to them!
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Post by Latecomer on May 6, 2019 11:36:07 GMT
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Post by jadnoop on May 6, 2019 11:42:11 GMT
If you started hanging about in real life with people with dodgy politics you’d rightly expect to be exposed to their views and propaganda. It’s just the same with the internet. If you put it out there you’ll get something back. Every action has a reaction etc. If people learned this and stopped exposing themselves to strangers, whether individuals or organisations, things would change. Sadly the genie is probably too far out of the bottle now As someone with very little social media presence, I agree with you in principle. However, I think the unfortunate reality of modern life is that it's next-to-impossible to be truly anonymous online. If you have a gmail account, use google (rather than, say, duckduckgo), use amazon, youtube, google maps, have a smart phone, etc. all these things are providing information on the type of person you are, what you like, listen to, watch, buy, where you go and the other people you're linked to. And while you might avoid actively linking these accounts, the underlying companies probably know more than you'd like because those connections are easy to make and very difficult to untangle. Still, I guess what we have to worry about is nothing compared to what the next generation will since, by-and-large most of us lived most of our lives before social media (or even the internet) became a thing.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 6, 2019 11:53:44 GMT
I don’t get any of that sort of political stuff on my Facebook feed. Probably because I’m extremely careful about what I post on there in the first place. My profile is completely locked down, nothing overly personal or political, and I don’t indulge in the sad popularity contest of befriending anyone I haven’t met in real life (and not all of those I have met make it either!). And none of this “friends of friends can see your posts” rubbish either. Why would I want people I don’t know seeing my whereabouts or opinions on anything? If you started hanging about in real life with people with dodgy politics you’d rightly expect to be exposed to their views and propaganda. It’s just the same with the internet. If you put it out there you’ll get something back. Every action has a reaction etc. If people learned this and stopped exposing themselves to strangers, whether individuals or organisations, things would change. Sadly the genie is probably too far out of the bottle now Hope you realise that in the last election you wouldn’t have seen much...unless you lived in a marginal constituency. Most people’s vote don’t count as many seats are safe Tory or safe Labour, so all the “spend” went through marginal places....to work out what adverts were being shown people set up fake Facebook profiles in marginal constituencies so they could “capture” adverts.....I think the fact that we are not all seeing this stuff makes you think it is the “fault” of people if they see stuff! These are paid adverts, so hard to avoid them.... are you claiming you never see any adverts on your Facebook feed? Of course it does suit the powers that be to have everyone complacent....you don’t believe it because it’s not true for you! There are also studies done on voting in America years ago showing that nudges on Facebook increase the voting turnout. There is quantifiable proof using mass Facebook data but of course I have yet to meet 1 person who feels any of this applies to them! Very, very rarely. And if I do I can usually attribute it to something I’ve clicked on or searched for. I don’t live in a marginal constituency, so I take your point on that. But On the other hand I didn’t get propaganda in the run up to the EU referendum either. Nothing. At all. I’m not saying people should be complacent. Quite the opposite. I think it’s complacent to have your profile wide open, to accept every time FB says “Facebook will use your personal data...”, to accept “friends” you don’t know from Adam and to involve yourself in political pages, groups etc where your presence suggests an affiliation or political view. If you’re going to go ahead and do all that then you have to accept the implications. Someone is probably going to try and change your mind. Thats not to to say I think FB is blameless, it’s become a monster. But many of the people using it have fed that monster.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 12:06:29 GMT
Hope you realise that in the last election you wouldn’t have seen much...unless you lived in a marginal constituency. Most people’s vote don’t count as many seats are safe Tory or safe Labour, so all the “spend” went through marginal places....to work out what adverts were being shown people set up fake Facebook profiles in marginal constituencies so they could “capture” adverts.....I think the fact that we are not all seeing this stuff makes you think it is the “fault” of people if they see stuff! These are paid adverts, so hard to avoid them.... are you claiming you never see any adverts on your Facebook feed? Of course it does suit the powers that be to have everyone complacent....you don’t believe it because it’s not true for you! There are also studies done on voting in America years ago showing that nudges on Facebook increase the voting turnout. There is quantifiable proof using mass Facebook data but of course I have yet to meet 1 person who feels any of this applies to them! Very, very rarely. And if I do I can usually attribute it to something I’ve clicked on or searched for. I don’t live in a marginal constituency, so I take your point on that. But On the other hand I didn’t get propaganda in the run up to the EU referendum either. Nothing. At all. I’m not saying people should be complacent. Quite the opposite. I think it’s complacent to have your profile wide open, to accept every time FB says “Facebook will use your personal data...”, to accept “friends” you don’t know from Adam and to involve yourself in political pages, groups etc where your presence suggests an affiliation or political view. If you’re going to go ahead and do all that then you have to accept the implications. Someone is probably going to try and change your mind. Thats not to to say I think FB is blameless, it’s become a monster. But many of the people using it have fed that monster. For what its worth, I have my profile on deep lock down and have had it like that for a good 6/7 years. My 'friends' are that: My family, good friends and close colleagues. I don't go out friend-chasing or like-hunting. Very few are politically vocal online and I interact with no political pages. Yet I still remember the bombardment of Leave propaganda I was subject to during the run up to the referendum. So I don't think it's as black and white as selecting your online friends carefully and becoming expunged from targeted advertising. Very interesting link from Latecomer - I remember the 'I voted' button on FB for a UK vote too, I wonder if that was part of the same experiment.
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Post by CG on the loose on May 6, 2019 12:11:51 GMT
I don’t get any of that sort of political stuff on my Facebook feed. Probably because I’m extremely careful about what I post on there in the first place. My profile is completely locked down, nothing overly personal or political, and I don’t indulge in the sad popularity contest of befriending anyone I haven’t met in real life (and not all of those I have met make it either!). And none of this “friends of friends can see your posts” rubbish either. Why would I want people I don’t know seeing my whereabouts or opinions on anything? If you started hanging about in real life with people with dodgy politics you’d rightly expect to be exposed to their views and propaganda. It’s just the same with the internet. If you put it out there you’ll get something back. Every action has a reaction etc. If people learned this and stopped exposing themselves to strangers, whether individuals or organisations, things would change. Sadly the genie is probably too far out of the bottle now But surely the point is not whether you see such propaganda yourself but whether you're happy to have your future decided (potentially) by those who are less careful / more susceptible to such politically-motivated manipulation of social media than you?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on May 6, 2019 12:19:15 GMT
No f course I’m not happy about that. As I said, the genie is out of the bottle.
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Post by NeilVHughes on May 6, 2019 12:39:06 GMT
A few years ago I checked what Google knew about me and it was scary how accurate the profile was and the constant bombardment with ads for what I recently searched for became annoying.
I made the decision to reduce my online footprint, cleared my Google history and stopped using its services, nowadays always use DuckDuckGo as my search engine and live where possible within the Apple ecosystem and use a Password Manager to set unique complex passwords for each site that requires signing in.
Only have a placeholder Facebook account with no timeline entries and no connected friends for accessing any sites which I need to but will always try to find an internet site and use as a last resort, my life is not interesting enough to require a public record and have never seen the point to follow a company on Facebook and if I need information will use the Companies website.
Never use Facebook / Twitter or any other intermediary to sign into any accounts and will always set up an unique account, if this option is not available will not use the service.
Only public profile is Twitter which I use to get information and primarily follow theatre sites and a few selected personal accounts, have only tweeted about theatre matters and keep my personal / political footprint to a minimum.
This is quite draconian and maybe too much but a personal choice, cannot see why Google / Facebook etc can monetise/ influence my internet presence with very little if no personal control.
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Post by xanady on May 6, 2019 13:45:20 GMT
Big Brother is watching and I don’t mean the tv show!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 14:29:28 GMT
I visited the Hellfire Caves in West Wycombe today. When planning the trip on Saturday I looked at the area on Google Maps from my home computer. On Sunday I was getting advertisements on my phone for the High Wycombe area. I hadn't done anything else in connection with that area. I hadn't mentioned my plans anywhere.
What I find disturbing is that the advertising related to that area and nowhere else that I had also looked at on Google Maps.
Although in a sense the advertising was dead wrong, because I was there for just two hours and have no interest in meeting singles in High Wycombe. Or anyone else in High Wycombe, for that matter. Sorry, Google: damned clever (and creepy as hell), but way off target.
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Post by duncan on May 6, 2019 15:08:23 GMT
If you want to stay off the grid then dont use the internet.
EVERYTHING you do online is tracked and stored, the amount of people who dont seem to realise this is frightening.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 18:50:51 GMT
If you want to stay off the grid then dont use the internet. EVERYTHING you do online is tracked and stored, the amount of people who dont seem to realise this is frightening. Whilst a very valid point, the point here isn't about having your data stored and used to tailor ads to suit, it's about being aware of the frightful political gain and gross mis-use of this privilege. Somehow these massive conglomerates seem to get away without any duty of care to the users, the people that made their businesses successful and gave them their money.
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Post by 49thand8th on May 6, 2019 19:31:39 GMT
If you want to stay off the grid then dont use the internet. EVERYTHING you do online is tracked and stored, the amount of people who dont seem to realise this is frightening. Hence, the cashless-society discussion earlier!
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 19:19:08 GMT
Clickbait thread title.
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Post by Backdrifter on May 7, 2019 19:46:22 GMT
Isn't that exactly what thread titles should be?
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Post by 49thand8th on May 7, 2019 20:19:50 GMT
And it worked, didn't it? I'd say it's more vague than clickbait, though...
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2019 20:27:57 GMT
"This person searched the Internet for political information. What happened next will astonish you."
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Post by duncan on May 10, 2019 14:56:23 GMT
"You'll never guess what the OP looks like now!"
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 15:28:01 GMT
Sure, we could condemn me for using a deliberately vague phrase to gain your attention or for ever changing avatars... but it's a rather flippant misdirection of attention.
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Post by kathryn on May 10, 2019 15:56:19 GMT
Fitness app data and healthcare insurance offers is another .. that ones more US than NHS.
At a recent data talk we were told about a US water company that had invented an app that was designed to alert you to leaks in the house by monitoring your water usage. It turned out to be so accurate that it could tell whether people in the household were brushing their teeth or not. As there's a documented link between oral hygiene and heart attacks (really!) they were then able to sell the data to health insurance companies. Scary stuff.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 17:42:48 GMT
One worrying thing came to my attention recently. There have been a couple of social-robot companies that have gone bankrupt over the past few months. Both companies implemented their features using cloud-based services for things like voice recognition. With the bankruptcy all their assets go to whoever wants to buy them, and those assets include all that valuable personal data that was sent from those home robots to the companies' servers in the cloud.
So bear that in mind next time you ask your connected device "Why are there spots on my tool?"
("Because you left your hammer out when you were painting the ceiling.")
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Post by Phantom of London on May 11, 2019 20:49:51 GMT
Facebook is dead now, since the I am going to make Russia great again and fake news, where mass data was harvested and sold to unscrupulous and Machiavellian organisationsans - so everyone seems to have moved over to Instagram (I wonder who owns them?)
So where do we draw the line, not only to be indulge the internet with a massive personal data, but we are also invited to access our personal device via a fingerprint, or talk to a device (Alexa) to make our internet searches easier, they’re talking about iris from the eye recognition next, is this just mere convenient time saving applications/devices because of our sloth? Or is something from a dystopian Orwellian data grab from some central government, that wants a new world order?
Really how much we are willing to divulge voluntarily about ourselfs is scary and we should be uncomfortable by it, however I am like the next person and I love knowledge and have hobbies where the Internet is brilliant.
As for myself I lead a boring mundane existence,so much so that I keep getting targeted by adverts on my computer from clinics in Switzerland.
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