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Post by orchidman on Apr 1, 2019 13:06:41 GMT
I'd be more worried that Norris and Burger are illiterate enough to write of "Caryl Churchill's iconic Top Girls".
Can any stage play be iconic? That one certainly isn't.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 13:47:25 GMT
Well, language evolves, and "iconic" no longer exclusively means a devotional painting of a religious figure painted on wood, so unless you particularly want to be like the pedantic character from a John Finnemore radio sketch, it's worth relaxing your definitions and accepting that "iconic" is a term that certainly can be applied to this rather well-known and much-studied play, whether people even like it or not.
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Post by orchidman on Apr 1, 2019 14:44:16 GMT
Yes, but to be iconic you surely have to at the very least conjure an image in people's heads. Hamlet holding the skull of Yorick could be described as iconic.
And Top Girls may be a rather well-known and much-studied play but that doesn't detract from the reality that 9 out of 10 people on the street won't have even heard of it.
To be fair maybe they would have written a more apt adjective: 'evergreen', 'classic', 'enduring', had they not seen this latest production.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Apr 1, 2019 17:16:02 GMT
Icons are different things to different people. If something is representative of a subsection of society then it is still iconic for them if not others, Top Girls is very much an iconic play for people from a certain time period and, arguably, gender. Anyone born after a certain age (or even before) not so much, in the way that most pop music icons after the nineties are a complete unknown to me!
There’s also the meaning from its usage in semiotics (something that any artist would be familiar with) of being a direct representation. It’s a very protean term.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:18:58 GMT
I can't say it better than samuelwhiskers above in terms of the broader picture. Is the NT actively discriminating against female writers (and directors, designers etc) no of course nobody is accusing them of that. Are they on the scale of things, among the worst offenders? I don't have the stats but I'd venture not. I'd venture even over say 10 years they fare better than most. But they are the NATIONAL theatre. 'not the worst of the bunch' isn't good enough. Do better.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 18:37:53 GMT
I can't say it better than samuelwhiskers above in terms of the broader picture. Is the NT actively discriminating against female writers (and directors, designers etc) no of course nobody is accusing them of that. Are they on the scale of things, among the worst offenders? I don't have the stats but I'd venture not. I'd venture even over say 10 years they fare better than most. But they are the NATIONAL theatre. 'not the worst of the bunch' isn't good enough. Do better. So they should host more plays by female writers not because it's a good play but because the writer hasn't got a penis? They have done more to discover the best female talent out there than any other theatre in this country and its still not enough for some. That's the problem with this. Where would you like them to stop? When every second play is by a female writer? When every second play is directed by a female? When every play has a equal measure of male and female players? When staff are appointed on a 50/50 gender split? Serious question, when will you be placated? This is how daft things have got, Norris has done more for female playwrights and female directors than most out there but people demand more, even when the current season has a ratio of 3-1 female writers/directors to male. I attended a performance of Dammed United - about Brian Clough's 44 days in charge of Leeds United - last year and the whole play is about his management of the team. Behind me was this woman moaning that none of the characters were female, none of the actors were female and neither was the writer or director. This isn't remotely related to Norris and the latest 'I take offence at that' aimed at The National but it sums this whole thing up perfectly.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Apr 1, 2019 19:25:48 GMT
When every second play is by a female writer? When every second play is directed by a female? When every play has a equal measure of male and female players? When staff are appointed on a 50/50 gender split? Sounds like a good start to me, although I'd be more flexible on the split of actors and aim for balancing that across a season.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 19:26:04 GMT
Well, Rossi left so I hope they realized we don't want them here.
You could have deleted your post though, that way we wouldn't have had to read your bullsh!t.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 19:39:25 GMT
I mean the Brian Clough play argument is stellar, I mean me and my feeble lack of penis cannot argue with that can we? 😂
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Post by oxfordsimon on Apr 1, 2019 19:45:35 GMT
I am never a fan of a quota system - but it is surely right to aspire to have a balanced programme over the course of a year as far as possible.
And with only a limited number of productions per year, you are never going to be fully representative - the numbers simply don't allow for it. Particularly not on a season by season basis. Sometimes productions have to be delayed and others brought forward - so you will have a season where it might be 3 to 1 in one direction and 3 to 1 in opposite for the next season. You have to judge on an annual basis to allow for natural variances.
I would certainly welcome a greater exploration of plays written by women that are not new writing. There are many historical perspectives that are just not being looked at.
New writing certainly should have a place at the National - but it is not the only way to get under-represented voices to the stage. I know from my own limited research that there is plenty of material out there if you look for it. It takes courage to programme it - but it should be possible to find that somewhere in the National.
There are other initiatives, like the Queer Theatre programme, which can be used to provide more voices a chance to be heard.
It is necessary to look at the bigger picture rather than obsessing over individual seasons/decisions. Programming is a complicated matter - new plays are promised by not delivered, scripts are received and proved not to be worthy of staging - the NT has seen both of those in recent years. You have to remain adaptable because circumstances render it necessary.
Looking at the Norris era, I think it is legitimate to challenge his decision to programme quite so much Caryl Churchill (and Patrick Marber) - it is not acceptable to give certain living writers so many opportunities - at the expense of other voices. I think he has made some bad decisions - and not stepped in to maintain quality with other productions
But I do feel it is unfair to go on the attack over this particular season without setting it in the wider context.
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Post by londonpostie on Apr 1, 2019 19:49:23 GMT
I noticed in a pdf linked to earlier in this thread the NT generated over £100 million in the last accounts. That creates an awful lot of new outreach opportunities in so many fields, as the pdf says, from Shetland to Cornwall.
I'm rather inclined to concentrate on excellence at our National Theatre- where ever and from whom ever it derives - and let the NT external programmes speak more for its inclusion agenda. If we don't protect and promote the reputation for excellence everything else will eventually suffer.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 20:06:12 GMT
Thing is, samuelwhiskers has already gone into a very good amount of depth on the subject, so if you're still asking after reading all that, then one can only conclude you're less interested in receiving an answer and more interested in just having a row. Like those people who roll out of bed on March 8th with a strident "but when's International MEN'S Day?" on their lips rather than just quietly googling it and finding "oh, cool, November 19th".
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Post by Someone in a tree on Apr 4, 2019 11:19:40 GMT
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Post by kathryn on Apr 7, 2019 15:29:50 GMT
I have to say, if I was Caryl Churchill, Katie Mitchell, Marianne Elliot, Blanche McIntyre, Lyndsey Turner, or Pam McKinnon this Telegraph headline would annoy me: www.independent.co.uk/voices/national-theatre-female-writers-directions-sexism-rufus-norris-lisa-burger-a8857986.html‘What am I? Chopped liver?!’ Could we possibly have the diversity discussion without completely erasing the people who are actually working in the industry? In this case, women writers and directors. It’s not helpful to pretend that there’s some grand conspiracy going on preventing even the most famous female writers and directors getting work produced. This sort of headline puts off potential new talent from even trying - and self-belief is half the battle in any creative endeavour.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 7:53:34 GMT
Does anyone here know off the top of their head when public booking opens for the new stuff? I would have looked on the website but it appears to be member booking day so I have to sit in a queue even just to look up info...
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Post by theatrelover123 on Apr 11, 2019 8:14:20 GMT
Does anyone here know off the top of their head when public booking opens for the new stuff? I would have looked on the website but it appears to be member booking day so I have to sit in a queue even just to look up info... Public booking opens on Friday 3rd May at 8.30am
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Post by jek on Apr 11, 2019 8:47:21 GMT
Number 3,000 plus in the queue this morning just after 8.30 am. My only concern was to get tickets for Mr Gum which if you have children the age of mine (all in their late teens and early 20s) will have formed a large part of your bedtime reading when they were much smaller (given the eldest is 6ft 5 inches tall I mean much, much smaller). Got those without difficulty and then found myself in a queue within a queue for Hansard. Booked for midweek in October and found that even going that far ahead I couldn't get any £15 seats. I see that Simon Woods who has written Hansard is an old Etonian and friend of Chelsea Clinton. He worked on Hillary Clinton's campaign to get selected as the Democratic candidate in 2008, so he may have some interesting insights. Article about his political involvement here: observer.com/2008/01/simon-woods-actor-ysl-model-hillary-supporter/and here: www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/3671627/We-Are-The-Chosen-Ones-A-new-hymn-to-Barack-Obama.htmlAs someone with an interest in good tailoring I'm hoping that - given that Simon Woods is married to Christopher Bailey of Burberry - Alex Jennings and Lindsey Duncan will be well dressed for their parts!
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Post by zephyrus on Apr 11, 2019 9:31:28 GMT
Somewhat stunned and shocked to see that top price tickets in the Lyttelton now appear to be £84, or £88 at weekends. What's going on??!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 9:35:53 GMT
They've introduced a premium tier of seating rather than raise ALL the prices.
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Post by Snciole on Apr 11, 2019 9:59:33 GMT
The cheapest decent seat I could get was for £32 mid-week previews. I am interested in other stuff but not desperate to see it because Alex Jennings isn't in those.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 10:22:03 GMT
I reiterate my usual observation that the NT has become considerably more expensive that it used to be. Couldn't get online till 11am due to work so all front row cheap seats, assuming there were some, now gone alas.
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Post by cartoonman on Apr 11, 2019 11:45:45 GMT
I was in the queue three times this morning and after an hour and twenty mins gave up. I changed my password and just about everything went wrong. I'm keen to see Master Harold from a cheap seat so I'll try later. I was at Jack the Ripper last night so may still be suffering.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Apr 11, 2019 11:55:03 GMT
Similar experience to theatremonkey.com
Theatre Gods on my side this morning, mid 100’s slot for both the National and Donmar, got the cheap seats for the National and my preferred central stalls for the Donmar in about 5-10 minutes on both sites.
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Post by david on Apr 11, 2019 12:43:41 GMT
After waiting for an hour, I finally managed to get stuff booked. Though no £15 tickets available, so I ended up going up a ticket price (and going for the circle seating) for the dates I wanted. I’ll probably keep lurking on the NT site for any £15 returns and try and get credit for the difference.
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Post by fossil on Apr 11, 2019 13:35:40 GMT
Theatremonkey is correct in that they hold £15 seats back so it is worth persevering if you have time. There seems to be the same pattern of seats available for each performance during priority booking with quite a few £15 seats unavailable. I have observed some of these then become available when public booking opens. I have also seen on several occasions more £15 seats becoming available for each performance nearer to the opening of the production. (Holding them back until they know sightlines/configuration?)
The odd £15 front stalls seats also seem to pop up in the week before a performance, even on the day. On one occasion I secured an excellent centre stalls £15 matinee seat for Man and Superman at 10.15 the same morning although that was cutting it a bit fine to get to the theatre!
That new Captcha screen for the queue this morning was a bit annoying.
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Post by lou105 on Apr 12, 2019 7:03:13 GMT
My brochure for the new season arrived yesterday, and the covering letter refers throughout to "Advanced" members. Have I missed a change, or should I just accept the typo as a compliment?
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Post by zahidf on Apr 17, 2019 7:40:51 GMT
Looks like the 15 pound seats are limited to the side circle seats. The Friday rush it is! Every other show has only 32 pound seats left
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Post by kathryn on Apr 17, 2019 8:20:03 GMT
Well, we got booked for Hansard and Master Harold, but the only cheap seats left were singles on our dates, so we’re in the £34 seats.
Friday Rush is starting to look like the most reliable way of getting a seat for less than that.
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Post by crowblack on Apr 17, 2019 8:55:20 GMT
more £15 seats becoming available for each performance nearer to the opening of the production. (Holding them back until they know sightlines/configuration?) Could be people snapping them up months in advance, then when the date gets closer returning them because they can't make the date. I've done that myself, getting a cheap seat on an awkward date then swapping when something better has popped up nearer the time. I've also noticed more empty seats in theatres that have those special offer days - people not making it but thinking not worth ringing to return it because it's so cheap.
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Post by sf on Apr 18, 2019 23:33:47 GMT
I have a priority membership with the National, paid for by direct debit. I just checked back through my bank account, and the National hasn't taken payment this month (the payment should have gone out yesterday) or last month. The direct debit is still active, and so is my membership - at least, I was just able to log in and get access to book for performances that are only on sale to members.
Obviously I'll ring them up and get it straightened out, but I'm curious: is it just me?
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